The Pen

[notin]

In the infamous 1986 WS Game 6 poor Schiraldi got a blown save in the 8th inning and the loss in the 10th inning. If he had given up a home run to Ray Knight instead of a single, I think he would have been charged with 2 blown saves and a loss.

 

Bob Stanley got a blown save for his efforts too, of course...

 

 

No. Just one blown save because once you become the pitcher of record and are eligible for the win, you can’t get a hold, save, or blown save...

[notin]

Because you saved a couple of other guys from having to pitch.

 

 

Maybe MLB should just copy Little League and adopt the slaughter rule.

 

I believe that 30-3 game was also the last career win for old friend Kason Gabbard...

[Kimmi]

Right now the sox are working off a pen with Barnes being Barnes, Brasier being okay and three guys entering territory they have never broached yet in Walden, Workman, and Hembree. If those three hold up, the DD is a genius. All he needs to do is get Cora to designate a closer and he is good. If those three fall off, then his pen will be in shambles

 

Well word on the street is that Dombrowski is very much in the market for a 'shut down closer'.

 

I don't think we need to designate a closer. The way Cora has been handling the pen had been working very well, until just recently.

[Kimmi]

Blown saves are a measure of momentum change. A shift in momentum from a game in hand to a toss up or trailing doesn't mean it's over, but points towards a bad outcome

 

That would make sense if momentum were a predictive thing.

[Bellhorn04]

No. Just one blown save because once you become the pitcher of record and are eligible for the win, you can’t get a hold, save, or blown save...

 

Got it.

[Bellhorn04]

That would make sense if momentum were a predictive thing.

 

I don't think momentum is the correct term for what Jacks is describing. I think it's more like the shift in win probability.

[Kimmi]

No matter how you look at it, blowing a save is never a good thing. It means late in a game you surrendered a lead, and Sox are 2-7 when they do that. An individuals blow save can be skewed as for some reason, if a relief pitcher is pitching in say 8th inning, loads bases and leaves, and another reliever comes in and gets a double play with bases loaded, but a run scores that ties game, the second relief pitcher who came in gets a blown save, which is absurd lol.

 

Here is an article talking about how absurd the Hold, win and Blown Save stats can be at times.

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/6/6/2208665/the-absurdirty-of-the-hold-statistic

 

Another thing I don't get with save is why do you get a save if you mop up and pitch the last three innings. The Rangers beat the Orioles 30-3 and someone got a save in the game lol.

 

Saves, Holds, Wins, and Blown Saves are all in the 'worst baseball stats' category.

[illinoisredsox]

No. Just one blown save because once you become the pitcher of record and are eligible for the win, you can’t get a hold, save, or blown save...

 

Actually, you can get a blown save and a win. Give up the tying run in the top of the 9th = blown save then team scores in the bottom of the 9th = win.

 

You are correct that you can't get a hold and a save if you get a win.

[SCM33]

Cant believe that we are even arguing what a blown save is.

 

In the end, it means your bullpen sucks. Especially if you have 12 saves as a team, and youve blown 9. f***ing terrible any way you want to argue it.

[bosoxmal]

It's time to recognize the obvious. We have the perfect closer on the roster. And it goes back to late 2018. . Chris Sale. He is not what he once was! But, Oh what a 9th inning sure thing!

[Jasonbay44]

It's time to recognize the obvious. We have the perfect closer on the roster. And it goes back to late 2018. . Chris Sale. He is not what he once was! But, Oh what a 9th inning sure thing!

Moving Chris Sale to closer would be so unbelievably stupid.

[Elktonnick]

Moving Chris Sale to closer would be so unbelievably stupid.

 

I would hate to be the one sent to tell him.

[S5Dewey]

I would hate to be the one sent to tell him.

 

LOL Mal is right, but the sacrifice to the rotation would be too big to make it worthwhile.

[Elktonnick]

LOL Mal is right, but the sacrifice to the rotation would be too big to make it worthwhile.

 

I think Mal's idea has merit but I still wouldn't want to the one to tell him. I think the only one with the stature to pull it off if Boston were serious would be Dennis Eckersley

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Mal's idea has merit but I still wouldn't want to the one to tell him. I think the only one with the stature to pull it off if Boston were serious would be Dennis Eckersley

 

There is no need to do so. He just held an elite offense to 4 runs through 6 with literally no fastball command. He is also second in the AL in K's. He is not an issue. He just needs to embrace father time a little better and focus on command vs stuff

[Jasonbay44]

There is no need to do so. He just held an elite offense to 4 runs through 6 with literally no fastball command. He is also second in the AL in K's. He is not an issue. He just needs to embrace father time a little better and focus on command vs stuff

Not to mention, who the hell fills the void of Sale leaving the rotation?

[jacksonianmarch]

Not to mention, who the hell fills the void of Sale leaving the rotation?

 

Neck tat?

[Elktonnick]

Not to mention, who the hell fills the void of Sale leaving the rotation?

 

Who fills the void at closer? No matter which way you shake it the Sox have holes in their pitching either at the front end, back end or in the middle.

[Jasonbay44]

Who fills the void at closer? No matter which way you shake it the Sox have holes in their pitching either at the front end, back end or in the middle.

 

Having a Chris Sale level starter is way more valuable than having an elite closer. Also it would be incredibly stupid to not pay Kimbrel, then Pay Chris Sale an ABSURD amount of money to be a closer.

[Jasonbay44]

Neck tat?

 

There wont be many save opportunities if he replaces Sale in the rotation.

[Kimmi]

Cant believe that we are even arguing what a blown save is.

 

In the end, it means your bullpen sucks. Especially if you have 12 saves as a team, and youve blown 9. f***ing terrible any way you want to argue it.

 

Blown saves are just terrible stats. You can have a reliever come into a game after the starter loads the bases with 0 outs, give up nothing more than a sac fly, and get a blown save.

[Kimmi]

Having a Chris Sale level starter is way more valuable than having an elite closer. Also it would be incredibly stupid to not pay Kimbrel, then Pay Chris Sale an ABSURD amount of money to be a closer.

 

A voice of reason.

 

As with Eovaldi, unless there are health concerns that dictate moving him to the pen, it would not make any sense to do so.

[notin]

Just get some bullpen arms who belong in MLB...

[Kimmi]

Just get some bullpen arms who belong in MLB...

 

You often don't know if they belong in the MLB until you give them a try. The best relievers often seemingly come out of nowhere. At the same time, a reliever who was one of the best one year might struggle mightily the next.

 

FTR, I'm still on the Colten Brewer bandwagon. His results have not been there, but his potential is still there. His peripherals are very promising.

[notin]

You often don't know if they belong in the MLB until you give them a try. The best relievers often seemingly come out of nowhere. At the same time, a reliever who was one of the best one year might struggle mightily the next.

 

FTR, I'm still on the Colten Brewer bandwagon. His results have not been there, but his potential is still there. His peripherals are very promising.

 

In some cases, you don’t need to give them a try. If the Sox had signed Ottavino instead of Pearce, for example.

 

I’m getting more on with Brewer, whose ERA is deceptively bad. But my confidence in Brasier has plummeted and I’m starting to think his 30 IP last season was not only a complete illusion, but fooled Dombrowski so much that he figured he never had to pay for a bullpen arm again (which is his dream)..

[notin]

Blown saves are just terrible stats. You can have a reliever come into a game after the starter loads the bases with 0 outs, give up nothing more than a sac fly, and get a blown save.

 

 

And misleading. They’re certainly not good, but you really can’t argue that closers need some special skill set and support it by saying all blown saves are equal...

[Elktonnick]

Having a Chris Sale level starter is way more valuable than having an elite closer. Also it would be incredibly stupid to not pay Kimbrel, then Pay Chris Sale an ABSURD amount of money to be a closer.

 

The reasons the Sox balked at paying Kimbrel were two fold one they don't want to exceed the salary cap and two his diminished effectiveness. Having Sale as a closer is of course a non starter (no pun intended ) as long as he is an effective starter however once he or any other starter are no longer effective in that role it is prudent to consider the alternative. Dennis Eckersley is certainly a perfect case in point.

[bosoxmal]

Numbers don't lie. Sale is a strikout whiz, but is 1-7. He was the same way rowards the end of last year.

 

But oh what a closer he might be!!!!

[notin]

Numbers don't lie. Sale is a strikout whiz, but is 1-7. He was the same way rowards the end of last year.

 

But oh what a closer he might be!!!!

 

 

The only reason to make Sale the closer is they never win his starts anyway.

 

But no.

 

Even if the Sox had 1998’s Mariano Rivera out there, they’d only have 2 more wins. They’ve won 3 starts from Sale. And considering they’ve only scored more than 4 runs in a Sale start twice in 12 games - and they scored 5 and 6 runs in those games - it’s not really a guarantee they can simply plug in anyone else and get the same or better results...

[moonslav59]

You often don't know if they belong in the MLB until you give them a try. The best relievers often seemingly come out of nowhere.

 

Like the one we had right under our noses and traded away to get 2B help last summer- Ty Buttrey for Kinsler.

 

We never even gave him a try, here.