The Pen

[moonslav59]

What kind of of pen help can we get for Dalbec?

 

How about Dalbec plus Johnson or Shawaryn?

 

Would trading D Hernandez for a solid 4 month, pen arm be worth it?

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Dalbec is probably best served by staying in your system. Yes, he’s got potential, but his star power is diminished by his age and approach. If you deal him for a rental, then you risk the chance he becomes a star. He doesn’t have enough capital to bring back anything more than a rental, so you might as well hold onto him. I’d deal Darwinzon if I dealt anyone. He should help bring back a good arm and from what I saw, he’s a middle reliever going forward.

[dgalehouse]

There are so many stats , so many time frames, so many possible sample sizes , so many exceptions to the rule , so many upsets , so many examples to choose from , that you could make a case , pro or con , for almost anything in baseball. But when a team has 12 saves and 9 blown saves , a reasonable person would agree that something is wrong. And it is not a big surprise. It was predictable.

[notin]

There are so many stats , so many time frames, so many possible sample sizes , so many exceptions to the rule , so many upsets , so many examples to choose from , that you could make a case , pro or con , for almost anything in baseball. But when a team has 12 saves and 9 blown saves , a reasonable person would agree that something is wrong. And it is not a big surprise. It was predictable.

 

While I agree this team needs a reliever, quoting just those numbers is misrepresenting it. The Sox have 12 saves and 28 holds against 9 blown saves. Since a blown save could have been either a save or a hold.

 

The team that leads MLB in blown saves with 15 is the Mets. You know, the team that took the contract of Robinson Cano so they could acquire Edwin Diaz. And also signed Jeurys Familia and Justin Wilson...

[moonslav59]

Dalbec is probably best served by staying in your system. Yes, he’s got potential, but his star power is diminished by his age and approach. If you deal him for a rental, then you risk the chance he becomes a star. He doesn’t have enough capital to bring back anything more than a rental, so you might as well hold onto him. I’d deal Darwinzon if I dealt anyone. He should help bring back a good arm and from what I saw, he’s a middle reliever going forward.

 

Eovaldi and Pearce were rentals that brought us a ring, and both were gotten for less than Dalbec's current worth.

[notin]

Eovaldi and Pearce were rentals that brought us a ring, and both were gotten for less than Dalbec's current worth.

 

 

If Dalbec was a Yankee prospect, he’d be tradable for ace pitching...

[jacksonianmarch]

Eovaldi and Pearce were rentals that brought us a ring, and both were gotten for less than Dalbec's current worth.

 

Pearce was bought for a song and at the time, that was his only worth. Eovaldi was bought for Beeks, who was a AAA prospect who has turned out rather well for TB

[moonslav59]

While I agree this team needs a reliever, quoting just those numbers is misrepresenting it. The Sox have 12 saves and 28 holds against 9 blown saves. Since a blown save could have been either a save or a hold.

 

The team that leads MLB in blown saves with 15 is the Mets. You know, the team that took the contract of Robinson Cano so they could acquire Edwin Diaz. And also signed Jeurys Familia and Justin Wilson...

 

So, 40 saves & hold vs 9 blown saves.

 

Other teams?

 

Yanks: 20 sv + 42 Holds= 62 vs 7 blown saves

 

Astros: 18 sv + 31 Holds=49 vs 4 blown saves

 

Rays: 17 sv + 47 Holds= 64 vs 6 blown saves

 

Twins: 15 sv + 32 Holds= 47 vs 3 blown saves

 

While our blown saves issue may be exaggerated, we certainly are doing much worse than the AL leaders.

 

Save %

83 Twins

82 Astros

74 Rays

74 Yanks

57 Sox

 

As much as Brasier has been bashed, he has our best SV%:

 

67% Brasier (6/9)

50% Barnes (3/6)

50% Hembree, Walden & Workman (all 1/2)

Edited June 1, 2019 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

If Dalbec was a Yankee prospect, he’d be tradable for ace pitching...

 

Please. Nobody expected Beeks to be good, and his prospect value then was lower than Dalbec's is now.

 

Do you disagree? Be honest.

[notin]

Please. Nobody expected Beeks to be good, and his prospect value then was lower than Dalbec's is now.

 

Do you disagree? Be honest.

 

I was not a fan of Beeks and I'm really not all that high on Dalbec.

 

It also would not surprise me if Dombrowski committed board heresy and moved Chavis...

[moonslav59]

I was not a fan of Beeks and I'm really not all that high on Dalbec.

 

It also would not surprise me if Dombrowski committed board heresy and moved Chavis...

 

Would you say Dalbec's current trade value is higher than Beeks' was last summer?

 

My point is that trading for decent talent is not as costly as many seem to think it is. This summer, there may be 16-18 sellers- an all time high. The cost may be lower as the supply of assets are higher.

[vegasbob]

What kind of of pen help can we get for Dalbec?

 

How about Dalbec plus Johnson or Shawaryn?

 

Would trading D Hernandez for a solid 4 month, pen arm be worth it?

 

 

I would not trade Hernandez if he does in fact have an MLB arm, and can get his command.control. The Red Sox don't need to develop an in-house rookie pitcher just to say they did it. They need to to cure this budget imbalance that may be hamstringing the bullpen or 2B position, or a a catcher in a couple years. Having a MLB minimum pitcher going every 5 days would be a win for the Sox, and not as a #5/6 spot starter fill-in.

[harmony]

There are so many stats , so many time frames, so many possible sample sizes , so many exceptions to the rule , so many upsets , so many examples to choose from , that you could make a case , pro or con , for almost anything in baseball. But when a team has 12 saves and 9 blown saves , a reasonable person would agree that something is wrong. And it is not a big surprise. It was predictable.

Could be worse: the Kansas City Royals have six saves and and nine blown saves.

 

The 31-24 Chicago Cubs and the 29-28 Oakland Athletics each have 11 saves and 11 blown saves.

 

http://proxy.espn.com/mlb/stats/team?stat=pitching&sort=blownSaves&type=expanded&order=true

[notin]

Would you say Dalbec's current trade value is higher than Beeks' was last summer?

 

My point is that trading for decent talent is not as costly as many seem to think it is. This summer, there may be 16-18 sellers- an all time high. The cost may be lower as the supply of assets are higher.

 

Sure, although bear in mind Beeks netted the Sox an oft-injured mid-rotation starter for only 3 months. What do people think Dalbec is worth?

[Kimmi]

In some cases, you don’t need to give them a try. If the Sox had signed Ottavino instead of Pearce, for example.

 

I’m getting more on with Brewer, whose ERA is deceptively bad. But my confidence in Brasier has plummeted and I’m starting to think his 30 IP last season was not only a complete illusion, but fooled Dombrowski so much that he figured he never had to pay for a bullpen arm again (which is his dream)..

 

Well now we're back on spending big on the BP or not. We'll have to disagree on that.

[Kimmi]

And misleading. They’re certainly not good, but you really can’t argue that closers need some special skill set and support it by saying all blown saves are equal...

 

Amen, brother Notin.

[Kimmi]

Like the one we had right under our noses and traded away to get 2B help last summer- Ty Buttrey for Kinsler.

 

We never even gave him a try, here.

 

I was not against the Kinsler trade at all, but what a nice cheap option he's been for the Angels so far.

[moonslav59]

I was not against the Kinsler trade at all, but what a nice cheap option he's been for the Angels so far.

 

I thought the trade was okay, too. My point was more about us never even trying Buttrey, before we dealt him away.

[jacksonianmarch]

Buttrey is an unknown still. Give him the season

[moonslav59]

Buttrey is an unknown still. Give him the season

 

True, but he's betting close to a full season under his belt.

[jacksonianmarch]

Your pen is unscored upon in this Yankee series. We have beaten your starters. Also, our pen is unscored upon.

[notin]

Nationals sign Fernando Rodney.

 

Not that this guy was a surefire upgrade, but it makes me wonder what it would take to get Dombrowski to act at all. And especially in a situation with. NO RISK. Sure Rodney could suck. As could Kontos or Rzepczynski or any other reliever on waivers. So? Release them. Done. Not even a significant financial risk...

[S5Dewey]

Nationals sign Fernando Rodney.

 

Not that this guy was a surefire upgrade, but it makes me wonder what it would take to get Dombrowski to act at all. And especially in a situation with. NO RISK. Sure Rodney could suck. As could Kontos or Rzepczynski or any other reliever on waivers. So? Release them. Done. Not even a significant financial risk...

 

I never have been a fan of Fernando Rodney and his theatrics. As a fan I have to draw the line someplace and that's where. However, I do think it's time DD made a move someplace and signed someone who'll help this team. It's either that or admit that their strategy of 'standing pat' during the off season was a failure and throw in the towel for 2019.

[notin]

I never have been a fan of Fernando Rodney and his theatrics. As a fan I have to draw the line someplace and that's where. However, I do think it's time DD made a move someplace and signed someone who'll help this team. It's either that or admit that their strategy of 'standing pat' during the off season was a failure and throw in the towel for 2019.

 

 

I think Rodney is an awful pitcher. But he does have a track record.

 

And really, the Sox could have DFAd 31yo career minor leaguer Josh Smith to make space. He’ll clear waivers and can be resigned.

 

But I don’t get why Dombrowski decides he wants to try and get by with career minor leaguers like Ryan Weber while avoiding career Major Leaguers like Fernando Rodney. Especially when they cost the same...

[Kimmi]

Nationals sign Fernando Rodney.

 

Not that this guy was a surefire upgrade, but it makes me wonder what it would take to get Dombrowski to act at all. And especially in a situation with. NO RISK. Sure Rodney could suck. As could Kontos or Rzepczynski or any other reliever on waivers. So? Release them. Done. Not even a significant financial risk...

 

Dombrowski is not sitting around idly. You know that. He is looking into every possible upgrade that can be made. There will be upgrade(s) to the pen.

[Kimmi]

I never have been a fan of Fernando Rodney and his theatrics. As a fan I have to draw the line someplace and that's where. However, I do think it's time DD made a move someplace and signed someone who'll help this team. It's either that or admit that their strategy of 'standing pat' during the off season was a failure and throw in the towel for 2019.

 

I am not a fan of Rodney either.

[Bellhorn04]

In last night's game the pen kept us in the game and gave us a chance for a win.

 

But there's no stat for that.

[S5Dewey]

I am not a fan of Rodney either.

 

IMO we agree on more than either of us wants to admit.

[notin]

In last night's game the pen kept us in the game and gave us a chance for a win.

 

But there's no stat for that.

 

 

Loss?

[vegasbob]

In last night's game the pen kept us in the game and gave us a chance for a win.

 

But there's no stat for that.

 

More games than not the pen has kept the Sox in the game . More games than not, some professional hitters have failed with RISP . BP upgrades or just plug-ins ( F. Rodney, ugh) are of little value if you cannot score runs when the opportunity is standing all over the bases. One other point, starters seem to be guaranteed at least one Porcello per game, most often on 2 strike counts with 2 outs. Maybe starters need to learn how to close their own innings.