The Pen

[moonslav59]

Unless you go game by game through the game logs, which I'm not going to do, it's difficult to know exactly how the pen usage is broken down in some of these stats. I noticed that Fangraphs had German and his 70 something innings listed under both starter and reliever stats.

 

BR has 74 IP as a starter and 2 IP as a RP'erfor German.

 

Fangraphs is always messed up in this area.

[S5Dewey]

 

If it were me, I'd stick with Velazquez/Johnson as my #5, trade for a solid closer, and use Eovaldi like the Andrew Miller of old. Having Eovaldi and Wright able to go 2 IP, if needed, would take an enormous strain off the rest of the pen and may allow guys like Workman, Hembree, Barnes and Brasier to thrive in less high leverage situations while being used less often.

 

Recognizing that you're the stats guru here, IIRC Barnes does much better in innings that don't start with "n". I'd relegate him to setup man as he was last year and let Eovaldi be the closer - assuming he proves he can do that job. I see 7th- Workman, 8th - Barnes, 9th - Eovaldi with Wright being swing man/long relief when necessary.

[moonslav59]

Recognizing that you're the stats guru here, IIRC Barnes does much better in innings that don't start with "n". I'd relegate him to setup man as he was last year and let Eovaldi be the closer - assuming he proves he can do that job. I see 7th- Workman, 8th - Barnes, 9th - Eovaldi with Wright being swing man/long relief when necessary.

 

I think this is DD & Cora's plan.

 

I'm not sure it's enough, and I have my doubts about Eovaldi's effectiveness coming off a serious injury and being thrown into a somewhat unfamiliar role.

 

I'd rather see us get a solid closer. Wil Smith may cost too much, but someone reliable but maybe not spectacular.

 

________ (New closer)

Workman (8th/9th)

Eovaldi (7-8-9 - 1- 2 inning guy)

Wright (7-8-9 - 1- 2 inning guy)

Barnes (7-8- one inning)

Hembree (7-8- one inning)

Braiser (5-6-7- one inning)

Taylor (5-6-7- one inning)

 

Walden AAA

 

Johnson/Velazquez 5th starter or AAA (Velazquez)/Traded (Johnson)

 

[jacksonianmarch]

Barnes doesn't just have trouble with the 9th. He is having immense trouble with back to backs.

[S5Dewey]

Barnes doesn't just have trouble with the 9th. He is having immense trouble with back to backs.

 

That's ok When this offense gets clicking the Sox are going to score enough runs so that won't be an issue. He'll only have to pitch every two or three days.

[OH FOY]

I watched Homer Bailey pitch against the Guardians, he was hitting 94-95 pretty consistently, and for that team to have a winning record says something. he's super cheap, Dodgers paying his salary, I would definitely take the chance on him as a 5th starter. Were not talking Koufax here, just steady pretty good pitcher.

He pitched in one of the best hitters Parks in baseball for years with the Reds, Fenway shouldn't bother him too much. He's owed 183,333 for rest of season.

Edited July 8, 2019 by OH FOY!

[notin]

I watched Homer Bailey pitch against the Guardians, he was hitting 94-95 pretty consistently, and for that team to have a winning record says something. he's super cheap, Dodgers paying his salary, I would definitely take the chance on him as a 5th starter. Were not talking Koufax here, just steady pretty good pitcher.

He pitched in one of the best hitters Parks in baseball for years with the Reds, Fenway shouldn't bother him too much.

 

He also goes on the IL every time he sneezes...

[S5Dewey]

It's probably Matt Groenig's fault but I can't have faith in a pitcher named Homer.

[OH FOY]

Pitched 2 no-hitters, I might have named my kid Homer.

[OH FOY]

He also goes on the IL every time he sneezes...

 

At that price, who cares. Have time to look for another, this year he's been better, has 90 innings. Perfect for the 5th starter.

[Kimmi]

It’s a crap shoot with the rookies. Rarely you get a KRod circa 2002. Most of the time, you get a Craig Hansen performance. Even if you get a Joba type start, it’s hard to rely on them in crunch time. See the Cleveland Midge game

 

I don't disagree, but the idea of building a pen this way is to keep throwing the crap against the wall until something sticks. Sooner or later, something will.

[Kimmi]

In a sense, we also added Hembree to our more recently troubled pen.

 

Maybe they do think Eovaldi, Wright and Hembree is all the pen needs and they'll focus all their resources on a 5th starter.

 

Could happen.

 

If it were me, I'd stick with Velazquez/Johnson as my #5, trade for a solid closer, and use Eovaldi like the Andrew Miller of old. Having Eovaldi and Wright able to go 2 IP, if needed, would take an enormous strain off the rest of the pen and may allow guys like Workman, Hembree, Barnes and Brasier to thrive in less high leverage situations while being used less often.

 

 

It sounds as though Dombrowski's focus is on acquiring that 5th starter rather than a pen arm.

[jung]

I would be fine with Zack Wheeler. He won't cost much money. However if they get a starter, THEY STILL WON"T BE ABLE TO CLOSE. Just because there will be less pressure on the pen at large does not mean they will suddenly be able to close.

[Kimmi]

I would be fine with Zack Wheeler. He won't cost much money. However if they get a starter, THEY STILL WON"T BE ABLE TO CLOSE. Just because there will be less pressure on the pen at large does not mean they will suddenly be able to close.

 

No, but the idea and hope are that if we can get the rotation to be solid like they should be, and if the offense continues to hit like they are capable of, there should be less high leverage late innings to be pitched.

 

IMO, solidifying the rotation is more important than solidifying the pen. The former should somewhat take care of the latter.

[jung]

No, but the idea and hope are that if we can get the rotation to be solid like they should be, and if the offense continues to hit like they are capable of, there should be less high leverage late innings to be pitched.

 

IMO, solidifying the rotation is more important than solidifying the pen. The former should somewhat take care of the latter.

 

Not at the Closer it won't. We don't have a Closer. One is not going to emerge. Yes it will take pressure off of the rest of the pen because they won't be called upon for so many innings 6-8. Does not do a damned thing for the 9th and we still don't have someone that can even reliably close. These bums cannot even Hold. So what would make us think that there is suddenly a Closer in the Bucket-o-Fried chicken bums.

[dannycater]

Pitched 2 no-hitters, I might have named my kid Homer.

 

Bill Stoneman threw 2 no hitters too. And no one cared for his 54-85 career record.

[OH FOY]

Bill Stoneman threw 2 no hitters too. And no one cared for his 54-85 career record.

 

True DC. I like my kids names anyway.

[OH FOY]

Wonder if this shows up.

[jung]

Geezus...Yankmees apparently talking to the Jays about both Stroman AND Giles. At least if the Yankmees got them, they would keep them out of the hands of teams we are competing with for a WC birth.

[a700hitter]

I don't disagree, but the idea of building a pen this way is to keep throwing the crap against the wall until something sticks. Sooner or later, something will.

And sometimes it sticks to the bottom of your shoe and it smells.

[moonslav59]

Bumgarner is still somewhat in his prime. He turns 30 soon.

 

He does have some concerns. He's been declining for 3+ years:

 

WHIP

1.01 (2015)

1.03

1.09

1.24

1.20 This year

 

ERA+

146 (2016)

128

118

105 This year

 

His K rate of 9.3 s still above his career 8.8.

K/BB is 4.79 (career 4.17)

 

He's a "gamer" for sure, but I doubt we have the goods to get him, and even if we did, it might take out top 3-4 prospects to get him, and our farm would be less than zero. I wouldn't do it for a 2 month rental.

 

[notin]

Not at the Closer it won't. We don't have a Closer. One is not going to emerge. Yes it will take pressure off of the rest of the pen because they won't be called upon for so many innings 6-8. Does not do a damned thing for the 9th and we still don't have someone that can even reliably close. These bums cannot even Hold. So what would make us think that there is suddenly a Closer in the Bucket-o-Fried chicken bums.

 

If the other pitchers are not capable of getting a hold as you say, getting a closer won’t help...

[Bellhorn04]

We will have a closer fairly soon, Eovaldi.

[fxkatt]

Geezus...Yankmees apparently talking to the Jays about both Stroman AND Giles. At least if the Yankmees got them, they would keep them out of the hands of teams we are competing with for a WC birth.

 

If they succeed in this, you might as well put them in the 2019 World Series--with the Dodgers. But how in god's name can they eat up one more top reliever? What hogs. Are half their relief staff injured or what?

[jung]

Wheeler is cheaper and as much or as little a crap shoot as MadBum would be at this point. Some team with more assets to attract in trade will get MadBum.

 

If they are stuck on Wheeler and get him that would not be a terrible move. However they would still need a Closer not named Nate or any of the Bucket-o-fried chicken bums from that pen. There are certainly more NL pitchers that challenge hitters than there are AL pitchers that challenge hitters. Wheeler certainly challenges hitters as much as anybody in the AL does. He losses more than I like in those challenges. He is a good deal like Nate in that regard as Nate challenges hitters as well and losses sometimes by leaving the ball in the middle of the plate.

 

I am actually pretty sick and tired of watching Red Sox starters pitch. I like the way Sale pitches but when he can't throw his Slider, he is just a train wreck waiting to happen. The rest of them, save Nate have turned into nibbling Erod with Price having more talent than the rest. Hence Price enjoys more success than the rest. Porcello had his day in the sun as a power pitcher (and I do mean A DAY in the sun) and that is now done and dusted. Erod is Erod now with a change up. Price throws like a veteran pitcher. But he challenges a hitter about once a game, maybe twice on his way out his stint.

 

Tired of the way they pitch across most of MLB now anyway but particularly non-plused by our own starters who have underperformed as a group about as much as a group can underperform. There was no real reason to be excited about the Sox pen EVER. But the Rotation has really been painful to watch pitch.

Edited July 8, 2019 by jung

[OH FOY]

Geezus...Yankmees apparently talking to the Jays about both Stroman AND Giles. At least if the Yankmees got them, they would keep them out of the hands of teams we are competing with for a WC birth.

 

This is not good, especially if Giles has finally found himself again.

[Slasher9]

We will have a closer fairly soon, Eovaldi.

 

This would make me feel better if he was:

- an actual closer

- not currently on the 60 day IL

- not always 1 pitch away from yet another TJS

[Slasher9]

Zack Wheeler Trade Rumors: Mets 'Have Engaged' Red Sox in Talks

[a700hitter]

Zack Wheeler Trade Rumors: Mets 'Have Engaged' Red Sox in Talks

That's the scuttlebutt in NY.

[jung]

This is not good, especially if Giles has finally found himself again.

 

Christ, Giles was pitching with a cranky wing all year up until just before the Sox series in Toronto. Did pretty well for having a cranky wing. I would have taken him with his cranky wing over anybody we have had closing and anybody we are likely to have closing out the season.

Edited July 9, 2019 by jung