What would a Betts extension be?

[jacksonianmarch]

The gain is small? He'd be guaranteeing himself $13 mil for his age 36 season. If that's small, I will take small. Send me small to my address listed in my profile

[Slasher9]

The gain is small? He'd be guaranteeing himself $13 mil for his age 36 season. If that's small, I will take small. Send me small to my address listed in my profile

 

theres no "guarantees" when you opt out of a guaranteed contract to become a FA.

just like there was no guarantee that CK would get 4/$80MM when he turned down the QO. maybe he will, maybe he wont. but he could have guaranteed himself $20+MM for 1 season of work......

[Station 13]

JD opting out and re-upping to lower that AAV while still being a top hitter is a win for both side. He's only 31 this year.

[moonslav59]

And JD played more field than Papi did. Listen, JD is a DH who can fake it in the OF. He’s also a hitter of Papi’s caliber in a time when guys who hit for power, don’t hit for average. He will outearn the final three years of his contract on the open market if he finishes 2019 healthy and has a year akin to his prior two. I’m not saying he’ll beat the AAV, but he will get a bigger guarantee than the approx $62 mil left on his deal. That’s an important thing for him as we’re talking about his age 36 season and he’s likely to not get a big contract if he hits FA at that age. I said before that if JD lots out, I’d expect a 4 yr $75 mil contract for him

 

I don't disagree, but from the Sox perspective, lowering the AVV is more important.

 

Yes, if JD does well and stays healthy before he opts out, the Sox would likely feel more comfortable offering an extra year or two, if the AVV is lower.

[Bellhorn04]

The gain is small? He'd be guaranteeing himself $13 mil for his age 36 season. If that's small, I will take small. Send me small to my address listed in my profile

 

'Guaranteeing himself' $13 mill. That's just comical, considering what's been going the last few offseasons.

[notin]

'Guaranteeing himself' $13 mill. That's just comical, considering what's been going the last few offseasons.

 

Sort of like how Pearce was a lock for 4 years $36mill...

[jad]

I guess if a .250 hitter can score $330 million, it's time to get out your wallets. Trout reportedly signing for $430. Good news for Mookie, in that this proves you don't need to be a self-promoting a-hole to get the big bucks!

[Station 13]

Sherman reporting Mookie turn down 8/200M this time last year.

[Bellhorn04]

I hate to say it but now it seems very conceivable that Mookie is a goner after 2020.

[mvp 78]

I hate to say it but now it seems very conceivable that Mookie is a goner after 2020.

 

Because one of the biggest market teams can’t afford him?

[Kimmi]

I hate to say it but now it seems very conceivable that Mookie is a goner after 2020.

 

If that looks like it's going to be the case, the Sox need to start looking into trading him after this season.

[S5Dewey]

If that looks like it's going to be the case, the Sox need to start looking into trading him after this season.

 

I hate so say this, but... yes.

[Kimmi]

I hate so say this, but... yes.

 

I hate to think of losing him as well.

 

OTOH, the idea of giving a player a 12 year contract makes me sick.

[cp176]

We have no clue what the market might look like by the time Betts is a free agent. Deep breaths and wait and see.

[Bellhorn04]

Because one of the biggest market teams can’t afford him?

 

We could afford him if he was willing to sign an extension. But if he goes to free agency things might get ridiculous.

 

If we do the extension with Sale, the pie obviously gets a couple of slices smaller. Then there's Bogaerts and Bradley and Benintendi...

 

Who knows?

[Northern Star]

I trade Betts tomorrow if the price is right.

[Bellhorn04]

I trade Betts tomorrow if the price is right.

 

You sound like Harold Ballard.

[fxkatt]

What a catch-22. The better the players on a team, the more impossible to sign them. The more success a team has the more expensive the players.

 

I say let's have a hard cap, and have all contracts re-negotiated every three years max. This tenure stuff has got to go. That's for stuffy professors, not for young athletes. And it's creating a huge gap between the rich and "poor" players. (a far cry from the days when the Brooklyn Dodger players used to play pick-up games with the fans outside the stadium before the game)

[Bellhorn04]

What a catch-22. The better the players on a team, the more impossible to sign them. The more success a team has the more expensive the players.

 

I say let's have a hard cap, and have all contracts re-negotiated every three years max. This tenure stuff has got to go. That's for stuffy professors, not for young athletes. And it's creating a huge gap between the rich and "poor" players. (a far cry from the days when the Brooklyn Dodger players used to play pick-up games with the fans outside the stadium before the game)

 

You have to be realistic. That's simply not going to happen.

 

At least there shouldn't be so much talk about collusion and work stoppages with these massive extensions for Trout and Arenado.

[jad]

What a catch-22. The better the players on a team, the more impossible to sign them. The more success a team has the more expensive the players.

 

I say let's have a hard cap, and have all contracts re-negotiated every three years max. This tenure stuff has got to go. That's for stuffy professors, not for young athletes. And it's creating a huge gap between the rich and "poor" players. (a far cry from the days when the Brooklyn Dodger players used to play pick-up games with the fans outside the stadium before the game)

 

You mean back when owners "owned" players? Back before all that free-agency stuff? And before those pesky unions that prevented the owners from keeping all the money to themselves, while players worked second jobs in the winter?

[S5Dewey]

You have to be realistic. That's simply not going to happen.

 

At least there shouldn't be so much talk about collusion and work stoppages with these massive extensions for Trout and Arenado.

 

I see the argument against collusion as being the same as the one against the PED users: The owners don't want to sign players to a high salary/long term contract just like the owners didn't want to sign PED users because of the damage to the game (or at least that's what they gave lip service to). However, they don't trust each other NOT to sign these guys... so they do.

 

There may not be owner enforced work stoppages but I believe there's an excellent chance of a player's strike at the next CBA if the owners & players can't agree to raise the floor for players (which would also raise everyone's salary).

As difficult as it is to type this with a straight face... there are more players making less than 7-figures (less than $10,000,000/yr) than there are making more than that.

Right now we're embarking on a HUGE three-tier system with the elite players making >$30M/Yr, the next step down making >$20MM/Yr and the rest below that with most making

[vegasbob]

Because one of the biggest market teams can’t afford him?

 

No, perhaps they can afford a 12 year $430MM contract from a funding point of view. But from a realistic viewpoint being married to a mega-contract for 12 years, consuming about 20% of your salary cap is not a way to have a consistently competitive team. Has Mookie Betts so impressed you that he is deserving of the #1 contract of all time ? This isn't the NBA where 2 or 3 players can keep a team at the top (GSW) for multi-years. Betts , Harper, Trout hit 5 times a game, 150 times a year if not injured. They fail to move the runner, if any, 65% of the time. Trout will now play for the rest of his games on the same team that has reached the playoffs once in his HoF career , and may never again.

 

One or even three players does not make a baseball team. The 2018 Yankees should have cleaned up in the AL East with Judge, Stanton, Severino, etc, but they failed to notice the 108 game winners from Boston who had Vazquez, Leon, Swihart catching and Nunez/Holt playing second base, 2 of the 4 key positions on a team

[SCM33]

Because one of the biggest market teams can’t afford him?

 

The Redsox payroll is already through the roof (highest in the MLB, by 13 Million), while players like Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts and Bradley are making chump change.

 

I've said it a bunch of times now, he is GONE.

 

The Trout deal pretty much seals the end of Betts in Boston, if it hadn't been sealed yet.

 

Again, remember......Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts and Bradley....along with Sale, and others....are all coming to the end of their deals. We can't sign them all.

[S5Dewey]

The Redsox payroll is already through the roof (highest in the MLB, by 13 Million), while players like Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts and Bradley are making chump change.

 

I've said it a bunch of times now, he is GONE.

 

The Trout deal pretty much seals the end of Betts in Boston, if it hadn't been sealed yet.

 

Again, remember......Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts and Bradley....along with Sale, and others....are all coming to the end of their deals. We can't sign them all.

 

Taking yours and vegasbob's post directly above yours together it raises only one question: If the Sox don't sign Mookie...who's going to? Who would commit that much of their payroll to one player? And of those who would like to, who can afford to?

With Harper signing with the Phil's, Trout signing with the A's, and the Yankees with their own salary issues with Stanton and looking at Judge, Severino, etc., the market for any player demanding what Mookie will be wanting is getting very small.

[fxkatt]

You mean back when owners "owned" players? Back before all that free-agency stuff? And before those pesky unions that prevented the owners from keeping all the money to themselves, while players worked second jobs in the winter?

 

Nope. I don't mean that. I mean: why can't the MLB be more like the NFL? How can you give 12 year contracts, and tie up 20% of your payroll to players who are easily subject to injuries, and often the kind of injuries that make a super player into a merely good player. And if the tenured player isn't exactly continually motivated, what makes him want to excel when there's no more carrot or stick.

 

I love unions, but the kind I respect most, do not represent multi-millionaires. But, I know, this is big business and the players are entertainers more than athletes. But I personally know two ex-Olympian silver medal winners, and both now in their 50s, are working for under 30k per year. Yes, it's good to know that great athleticism and MONEY do not always have to go together. Sports, even at the top level, can still just be sports.

[mvp 78]

The Redsox payroll is already through the roof (highest in the MLB, by 13 Million), while players like Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts and Bradley are making chump change.

 

I've said it a bunch of times now, he is GONE.

 

The Trout deal pretty much seals the end of Betts in Boston, if it hadn't been sealed yet.

 

Again, remember......Betts, Benintendi, Bogaerts and Bradley....along with Sale, and others....are all coming to the end of their deals. We can't sign them all.

 

Bradley’s deal will be cheap. He’s not like the others.

[mvp 78]

We could afford him if he was willing to sign an extension. But if he goes to free agency things might get ridiculous.

 

If we do the extension with Sale, the pie obviously gets a couple of slices smaller. Then there's Bogaerts and Bradley and Benintendi...

 

Who knows?

 

 

Lots of $$$ coming off the books too.

[Station 13]

I hate to say it but now it seems very conceivable that Mookie is a goner after 2020.

 

It may be. He is playing hardball when it comes to his contract. He wouldn't signed for the league minimum after 2016, with just 2 years of service time. They had to almost doubled his salary. He took them to arbitration the following year, which was where the 200 million was offer. He rejected it and get 10.5M, instead of signing life changing money. He is determined to hit free agency.

[Jack Flap]

Sherman reporting Mookie turn down 8/200M this time last year.

 

More from that story:

 

"Two other sources said the Red Sox have made several attempts at a long-term deal with Betts, including this past offseason, with the Betts camp not even making a counter-proposal."

 

https://nypost.com/2019/03/19/mookie-betts-rejecting-red-sox-looks-more-lucrative-by-the-second/

 

 

I wonder what numbers were discussed this offseason...

 

It sure seems like he is heading to free agency unless we blow him out of the water with an offer at this point.

[cp176]

I see the argument against collusion as being the same as the one against the PED users: The owners don't want to sign players to a high salary/long term contract just like the owners didn't want to sign PED users because of the damage to the game (or at least that's what they gave lip service to). However, they don't trust each other NOT to sign these guys... so they do.

 

There may not be owner enforced work stoppages but I believe there's an excellent chance of a player's strike at the next CBA if the owners & players can't agree to raise the floor for players (which would also raise everyone's salary).

As difficult as it is to type this with a straight face... there are more players making less than 7-figures (less than $10,000,000/yr) than there are making more than that.

Right now we're embarking on a HUGE three-tier system with the elite players making >$30M/Yr, the next step down making >$20MM/Yr and the rest below that with most making

 

I feel pretty much like you do here. I actually think that the world of entertainment is in general out of control. We constantly hear about the over payment of some people in society who are actually doing something good for humanity but very rarely do our beloved entertainers feel this same sting. I'm starting to feel that our need for entertainment far over shadows our need for food. I'm going to enjoy Betts while we have him whether it is for one two or more years. The market is what the market is I guess. I'm just hoping the government doesn't try to get involved.