Where does Ian Kinsler rank in Red Sox infamy?

[StephenCurry30]

The Red Sox were on the verge of being up 3-0 in the world series, things are looking great, a ball is hit sharply right at him, he somehow overruns the ball and slips, no problem, that happens, but the idiot as slipping for some reason RUSHES THE THROW TO 1B when Puig isn't even halfway down the line!! He needed to either NOT THROW THE BALL, or regain his feet then throw. There is no way you risk that play with max muncy, not particularly fast on 2B, and the ball was hit hard, Muncy doesn't score UNLESS YOU THROW THE BALL WAY. Physical error. mental error. im starting to think kinsler is not just a bad player but a stupid one

 

this is some bill bucknor level s***.. and yes I am mad and need a vent.

[Slasher9]

May very well cost us a parade. This is worse then Buckner IMO.

[DontCallMeUncleRico]

He was a total goof this game. He was like Manny out there except Manny was a baaaaaaaad man.

 

Hopefully this is the end of kinsler this series. Mookie better be at 2nd tomorrow.

[a700hitter]

May very well cost us a parade. This is worse then Buckner IMO.

Buckner was also completely useless at bat. His LOBs were mind boggling. he had so many chances to blow open games. He was completely futile.

[Jasonbay44]

Buckner was also completely useless at bat. His LOBs were mind boggling. he had so many chances to blow open games. He was completely futile.

Sounds like 2018 Ian Kinsler

[a700hitter]

Sounds like 2018 Ian Kinsler

Buckner was worse because he was a full time player. Kinsler did more in game 1 to help the team than Bucker did in all 7 games.

[Slasher9]

Buckner was worse because he was a full time player. Kinsler did more in game 1 to help the team than Bucker did in all 7 games.

 

But the game was already tied when Buckner made the error. We literally win if kinsler can make a throw to 1b without tripping over his own 2 feet....

[DontCallMeUncleRico]

Ian is a bonehead. Please no more of this guy.

 

[oldtimer]

May very well cost us a parade. This is worse then Buckner IMO.

 

It cost mre than the game, it totally burned up Eovaldi for future use in LA.

[cp176]

Sox are are up 2-1 right? This is a great baseball team. When your top 4 go 0-28, it puts a lot of pressure on everybody. They'll be back out there in a couple of hours. 3-1 going back to Boston.

[jung]

Sox are are up 2-1 right? This is a great baseball team. When your top 4 go 0-28, it puts a lot of pressure on everybody. They'll be back out there in a couple of hours. 3-1 going back to Boston.

 

Actually its 3 straight games in LA. So it goes back 3-2 or not at all.

 

I simply don't care where Kinsler sits in Red Sox infamy. No Red Sox player playing in that game deserves their place in infamy below MLB administration all the way from Manfred down and the owners. That was a disaster but it was absolutely destined to happen.

 

Who does not realize this is exactly where MLB was taking us, laser focused on their nonsense while consequentially heading us for that s*** show and more to follow, actually worse to follow if they do not correct their direction.

 

How many fans do we think were simply lost to this game after last night. How many people outside of Boston and LA fans had to be left asking themselves, "what am I doing here", I gotta' life to lead".

Edited October 27, 2018 by jung

[cp176]

Actually its 3 straight games in LA. So it goes back 3-2 or not at all.

 

I simply don't care where Kinsler sits in Red Sox infamy. No Red Sox player playing in that game deserves their place in infamy below MLB administration all the way from Manfred down and the owners. That was a disaster but it was absolutely destined to happen.

 

Who does not realize this is exactly where MLB was taking us, laser focused on their nonsense while consequentially heading us for that s*** show and more to follow, actually worse to follow if they do not correct their direction.

 

Whoops I made an error there. Yup it either ends in LA or we go back 3-2. I'm still going with the better team. Sox in 5.

 

In addition to the bases, what else is it about this pageant show that you don't like? There are lots of the things that I don't personally care for but the actual product on the field is pretty damn good. That game last night was historic.

[Hitch]

People need to get a grip. The guy made a mistake. It happens.

 

We also had 17 other innings where nobody bar JBJ and Nunez did a damn thing to get us the runs needed. The top 4 were 0 for 28. Kinsler may have had the chance to end the game but we lost because so few of our hitters turned up.

 

Infamy for Christ sake.

[Bellhorn04]

This question can't be answered until the World Series is over,

[jung]

Whoops I made an error there. Yup it either ends in LA or we go back 3-2. I'm still going with the better team. Sox in 5.

 

In addition to the bases, what else is it about this pageant show that you don't like? There are lots of the things that I don't personally care for but the actual product on the field is pretty damn good. That game last night was historic.

 

Everything that is wrong with this game was on display and lead to that mess. Historical my butt end..an epic fail of MLB administration and ownership common sense is more like it:

- You can start with MLB's inability to deal sanely with DH v no DH. Either get NL to comply with the DH(which makes more sense given every other nonsensical direction MLB has been heading this game) or send the AL back to holding a spot open for the Pitcher to hit in the batting order

- the juiced baseball, the Overload, the rules around the bases....all of it is the MLB intention to turn the multi-dimensional game of baseball into a one dimensional power game. The NL version of the game is simply heading for the cliff edge faster than the AL game. But both are headed for the cliff edge

- the reality of the contemporary NL game because there is a spot in the batting order for the Pitcher. Its now utterly devoid of anything other than hitters trying to hit HR's and the incredible number of K's and weak pop ups that result. Holding a spot open in the order for a Pitcher is entirely contrary to the direction the MLB administrators are heading this game. The result is that it is a game fighting with itself and it is displayed on the field in every game where the NL is a participant whether an NL league game or even in the very championship of MLB. The NLCS was a complete s*** show this year

- MLB's acquiescence to the Overload which MLB loves because it encourages hitters to hit over it was very much on display last night. Infielders no longer exhibit the agility that has described the baseball infielder for over 100 years! They are stationed in some spot by a computer geek. Just put a lawn chair out there with a basket on it. That is where that is going....its stupid

- the stupid ignorant plastic bases which is how JD hurt his ankle. Why in Gods name does MLB, the pinnacle of the game insist on using plastic bases...stupid again

- the very obvious issue of their stupid new rules around the bases that do not spare infielders injury. Just as Pedey claims, they simply give players a false sense of security when there in fact is none thus resulting in just as much injury. Combined with the Overload, infielders no longer exhibit the agility they should exhibit. They no longer exhibit good footwork. They are not even good infielders... Its stupid!!!!

- Consequence....7 hour baseball games???? 7 hours. How many fans were lost last night. How many simply said, this is insanity. Anybody that thinks MLB broke even or gained fans last night needs his head examined. In the main fans that will remain interested in their showcase, the WS will be the actual fans of LA and Boston. People are not going to simply commit themselves to such nonsense without a serious rooting interest

- to what extent was every financial influence on MLB desperately trying to push this to a longer series than the two teams warrant on the merits. Frankly, this LA teams does not belong on the same field with this Red Sox team mainly because the AL is the last bastion of actual baseball in MLB (see comment above about the result of NL continuing to hold a spot in the batting order for the Pitcher). To what extent did the desire to lengthen out this series influence the umpiring and the entirety of Fox Network and MLB administration itself trying to will the Dodgers to win that game?

 

That was an utter and complete s*** show and its high time Manfred realize it and whether covertly or overtly reverse the course of MLB before its too late. Its probably already too late!

 

While anybody that has read my posts knows I have been warning about all of this crap, I never thought I would see every single issue of MLB and NL ignorance and administrative and marketing stupidity on display in one single WS series leading to 7 hours of pure nonsense.

[Emp9]

I know Nunez’ fly ball wasn’t deep and the odds of not getting thrown out at home were slim. But does Kinsler need to slide there? I could be crazy, but I thought if he got low and slid, that maybe he could’ve avoided the tag. Or was he just too far away for a slide and I’m a retard for thinking this?

[Slasher9]

People need to get a grip. The guy made a mistake. It happens.

 

We also had 17 other innings where nobody bar JBJ and Nunez did a damn thing to get us the runs needed. The top 4 were 0 for 28. Kinsler may have had the chance to end the game but we lost because so few of our hitters turned up.

 

Infamy for Christ sake.

 

Do you believe Buckner cost us the 86 series?

[cp176]

People need to get a grip. The guy made a mistake. It happens.

 

We also had 17 other innings where nobody bar JBJ and Nunez did a damn thing to get us the runs needed. The top 4 were 0 for 28. Kinsler may have had the chance to end the game but we lost because so few of our hitters turned up.

 

Infamy for Christ sake.

 

One of the few times we really agree. I'm not sure that that is a good thing for you. I don't see things quite the same as some others here. Kinsler should have made that play although it wasn't just a chippie. Someone mentioned that LA will be real pumped for this next one. I think that the Sox will match any intensity that they have. Pretty sure they know what is at stake here. i'm pretty sure that they know what kinsler has meant to this team too.

[Slasher9]

It cost mre than the game, it totally burned up Eovaldi for future use in LA.

 

Yup OT. It very well could have cost us the parade.

Tonight will be interesting.

One this is for certain....this morning SUCKS

[Slasher9]

One of the few times we really agree. I'm not sure that that is a good thing for you. I don't see things quite the same as some others here. Kinsler should have made that play although it wasn't just a chippie. Someone mentioned that LA will be real pumped for this next one. I think that the Sox will match any intensity that they have. Pretty sure they know what is at stake here. i'm pretty sure that they know what kinsler has meant to this team too.

 

It was a grounder literally right to him. He tripped over his own feet and missed the throw by 15’. Feet. Not inches.

100 out of 100 times that is an out and game over.

[cp176]

Do you believe Buckner cost us the 86 series?

 

 

Can I help answer that one please Slasher - my answer would be of course not. It was a glaring error but there was a whole shitload of other stuff that happened in that game. Buck's stats that year tell me that without his contributions we might not have been playing that game anyway. I always was and always will be a Bill Buckner fan. There are HOF who put up poorer stats than Buck over his 20+ years. Sorry I bucked in on that one! lol

[cp176]

It was a grounder literally right to him. He tripped over his own feet and missed the throw by 15’. Feet. Not inches.

100 out of 100 times that is an out and game over.

 

My eyesight is so screwed up - I did not see that play quite like you did. He should have made it though.

[Hitch]

Do you believe Buckner cost us the 86 series?

 

No one play costs a series.

[Hitch]

One of the few times we really agree. I'm not sure that that is a good thing for you. I don't see things quite the same as some others here. Kinsler should have made that play although it wasn't just a chippie. Someone mentioned that LA will be real pumped for this next one. I think that the Sox will match any intensity that they have. Pretty sure they know what is at stake here. i'm pretty sure that they know what kinsler has meant to this team too.

 

Tonight is going to be huge. If they win it the momentum shift will be big, but if we win it last night doesn't matter and we probably take it in 5. Last night was a tough loss, but we've responded well to bad losses.

[Maxbialystock]

Everything that is wrong with this game was on display and lead to that mess. Historical my butt end..an epic fail of MLB administration and ownership common sense is more like it:

- You can start with MLB's inability to deal sanely with DH v no DH. Either get NL to comply with the DH(which makes more sense given every other nonsensical direction MLB has been heading this game) or send the AL back to holding a spot open for the Pitcher to hit in the batting order

- the juiced baseball, the Overload, the rules around the bases....all of it is the MLB intention to turn the multi-dimensional game of baseball into a one dimensional power game. The NL version of the game is simply heading for the cliff edge faster than the AL game. But both are headed for the cliff edge

- the reality of the contemporary NL game because there is a spot in the batting order for the Pitcher. Its now utterly devoid of anything other than hitters trying to hit HR's and the incredible number of K's and weak pop ups that result. Holding a spot open in the order for a Pitcher is entirely contrary to the direction the MLB administrators are heading this game. The result is that it is a game fighting with itself and it is displayed on the field in every game where the NL is a participant whether an NL league game or even in the very championship of MLB. The NLCS was a complete s*** show this year

- MLB's acquiescence to the Overload which MLB loves because it encourages hitters to hit over it was very much on display last night. Infielders no longer exhibit the agility that has described the baseball infielder for over 100 years! They are stationed in some spot by a computer geek. Just put a lawn chair out there with a basket on it. That is where that is going....its stupid

- the stupid ignorant plastic bases which is how JD hurt his ankle. Why in Gods name does MLB, the pinnacle of the game insist on using plastic bases...stupid again

- the very obvious issue of their stupid new rules around the bases that do not spare infielders injury. Just as Pedey claims, they simply give players a false sense of security when there in fact is none thus resulting in just as much injury. Combined with the Overload, infielders no longer exhibit the agility they should exhibit. They no longer exhibit good footwork. They are not even good infielders... Its stupid!!!!

- Consequence....7 hour baseball games???? 7 hours. How many fans were lost last night. How many simply said, this is insanity. Anybody that thinks MLB broke even or gained fans last night needs his head examined. In the main fans that will remain interested in their showcase, the WS will be the actual fans of LA and Boston. People are not going to simply commit themselves to such nonsense without a serious rooting interest

- to what extent was every financial influence on MLB desperately trying to push this to a longer series than the two teams warrant on the merits. Frankly, this LA teams does not belong on the same field with this Red Sox team mainly because the AL is the last bastion of actual baseball in MLB (see comment above about the result of NL continuing to hold a spot in the batting order for the Pitcher). To what extent did the desire to lengthen out this series influence the umpiring and the entirety of Fox Network and MLB administration itself trying to will the Dodgers to win that game?

 

That was an utter and complete s*** show and its high time Manfred realize it and whether covertly or overtly reverse the course of MLB before its too late. Its probably already too late!

 

While anybody that has read my posts knows I have been warning about all of this crap, I never thought I would see every single issue of MLB and NL ignorance and administrative and marketing stupidity on display in one single WS series leading to 7 hours of pure nonsense.

 

Nonsense. The DH is the anomaly, not the pitcher batting. Some pitchers can in fact hit, and most are pretty good athletes who early on decided to specialize as pitchers. There have, however, been pitchers who went bad, converted to outfielders, and made it back to the The Show. In the American League, however, pitchers are encouraged to become single skill baseball players like ERod and Pomeranz, who have both apparently decided that, not only do they not have to hit, they don't have to field their position either. This ain't football. You don't get to platoon. As I said on another thread, guys like you will next be saying that, if one DH is good, two DH's is better and three DH's is better still.

 

As for last night, I generally disagree with the tenor of this thread because I think what we saw was a night of horrendous hitting by the Sox lineup. The ball Kinsler fielded was a hard hit grounder up the middle that he fielded cleanly to his backhand side but then stumbled and consequently made a bad throw. But all he did was give back the go ahead run the Sox scored on--wait for it--an error by the Dodgers in the top of the inning (the 13th).

 

I am certainly no Kinsler fan. But to me last night our lineup was just rotten, stinking horrible and it really didn't matter who the Dodgers had on the mound because our one and only earned run was JBJ's dinger in the 8th inning.

 

I believe Cora has been a fantastic manager in the postseason, but last night we ended up with Eovaldi, Leon, and Vazquez in the lineup for several innings while the first four in the batting order--Betts, Bogaerts, Moreland, and JDM--went not only hitless but struck out 9 times and Bogaerts also got a GIDP. Meanwhile, Pearce and Beni each got 1 AB as a pinch hitter. So this was our lineup during a big chunk of the extra innings--

 

Betts 0 for 7

Bogie 0 for 8

Eovaldi--yes, Eovaldi, in for Moreland--0 for 2

Kinsler (in for JDM) 0 for 2

Holt 1 for 6

Nunez (in for Devers) 2 for 4

Bradley 2 for 5 including the dinger for the only earned run

Vazquez 1 for 7 who finished at 1b because Pearce and Moreland were gone

Leon 1 for 2

 

No DH applied to both teams and both managers. JDM played 9 innings, batted in the 10th, and Kinsler ran for him and stayed in. While in LF, JDM obeyed the hippocratic oath--first do no harm. In fact, he probably prevented a Machado double with his perfect handling of a single off the wall. During the regular season he was happy to play the outfield because he could and maybe because he didn't like being thought of as a one dimension player.

[jung]

Nonsense. The DH is the anomaly, not the pitcher batting.

 

The DH WAS the anomaly. As for wanting free substitution, I have already gone over that topic. This is baseball, not basketball. Free substitution would be idiotic. That said, MLB has done so many idiotic things in the last ten years that anything is now possible.

 

The DH is no longer the anomaly because it conforms to the path MLB has been on and is on. As a consequence the NL is out of step with its own administrative body. It is at war with itself. Either MLB has to guide the ship back toward where the NL is or the NL has to get in step with where its own administrative body is. Either way. Frankly I no longer care which one. Anything that spares us that s*** show from last night would be acceptable to me.

 

Any business or administrative exec that simply sits by and would allow this nonsense to continue needs to be summarily dismissed. Talking to you Manfred.

 

As for the performance of our offensive weapons in game 3, they simply outsmarted themselves. There was never any reason to guess with a FB pitcher. The Red Sox are the best FB hitting team in all of baseball, both leagues. You don't guess with a FB pitcher under those circumstances because you know he has to come back to his bread and butter. Instead as soon as Buehler started to mix his secondary pitches in the 2nd inning, we fell apart and started trying to guess with him. You could see it in every Betts AB, every Mitch AB and virtually every JD AB and almost every X AB just for starters.

 

There is utterly no reason to try to guess with a FB pitcher when you are the best FB hitting team in baseball. You sit dead red every pitch and focus on a location that you can handle. You try to adjust to the secondary pitch if forced to swing at one. If Buehler gets you to 2 strikes and drops a curve on you and you take it as a strike or miss it as a swinging strike, tip your cap and go take your seat!

 

If they get Buehler in Fenway in game 7 and approach their AB's the same way they did in game 3, the clearly better team WILL NOT win this series.

Edited October 27, 2018 by jung

[notin]

Do you believe Buckner cost us the 86 series?

 

1. Buckner did not. Heck the Sox has already blown a 2 run lead that inning.

2. Can we lose the series before making Kinsler a goat?

3. The two problems last night were the hitters and Cora. Betts and Bogaerts between them managed nothing but an intentional walk in basically 2 complete games. Cora decided for some reason to put together a lineup using all the Sox worst hitters.

4. Eovaldi May have saved this series. Kimbrel was the only other Sox reliever with more than1 IP (and he went 1.1 IP). For all their talk about an “expensive loss” last night for the Sox, the Dodgers had more relievers go multiple innings and might be in worse shape.

5. Before the series, bullpen was supposed to be the Sox weakness. After allowing 1 ER in 13 IP last night, this may not be the case...

[illinoisredsox]

Do you believe Buckner cost us the 86 series?

 

I do; not for “the play” but because of his utter suckitude offensively in that series. I think half his ABs ended innings and a lot of those were with men on.

[sk7326]

The Red Sox were on the verge of being up 3-0 in the world series, things are looking great, a ball is hit sharply right at him, he somehow overruns the ball and slips, no problem, that happens, but the idiot as slipping for some reason RUSHES THE THROW TO 1B when Puig isn't even halfway down the line!! He needed to either NOT THROW THE BALL, or regain his feet then throw. There is no way you risk that play with max muncy, not particularly fast on 2B, and the ball was hit hard, Muncy doesn't score UNLESS YOU THROW THE BALL WAY. Physical error. mental error. im starting to think kinsler is not just a bad player but a stupid one

 

this is some bill bucknor level s***.. and yes I am mad and need a vent.

 

Kinsler lost the game for us - but it's nothing that can't be fixed. Remember:

 

1. The Reds won Game 7 on the road after LOSING the Fisk game

2. The Red Sox STILL had a 3-0 lead halfway through Game 7 after LOSING the Buckner game

3. The Astros won the 2017 world series on the road after LOSING Game 6

4. The Dodgers won the 2018 NLCS on the road after LOSING Game 6

5. The Giants won the 2014 World Series on the road after LOSING Game 6

6. The Cardinals won the 1967 World Series in Boston after LOSING Game 6

 

Yeah, you have your rout after the Denkinger game (1985), or the Freese game (2011). But even more often, you just have another game to win. This was a heartbreaking game which cost me a lot of sleep. But it was one game in a series we're still leading. If we lose 3 more games it's because the Dodgers outscored us in each of the games - nothing else.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

This question can't be answered until the World Series is over,

 

Agree with this.

 

If the Red Sox go on to win, the Kinsler thing will be remembered but not as famous as the Buckner play.

 

If the Red Sox go on to lose, Kinsler will definitely be another Buckner.