Who Should the Red Sox Trade For?

[notin]

I'm in NC and I can tell you with certainty that the best male softball players on the planet are in there later 30s mid 40s and yes a few early 50s .The women's game is different the best are in there 20s and mid 30s for sure .Softball for men is a game of accuracy and you learn this over time .

 

 

What is men's softball like in NC? In Chicago, it becomes slow pitch game with a 16" softball and the players do not wear gloves; it's all bare-handed. Male softball players typically have very gnarled fingers if they have been playing for any length of time.

 

Women's softball is always a faster pitch game with a smaller ball and the players wear gloves...

[mvp 78]

A 16 inch softball? Most men's leagues use a 12" circumference ball.

[notin]

A 16 inch softball? Most men's leagues use a 12" circumference ball.

 

It's a Chicago thing. Those 12" leagues also wear gloves, but all men's softball out here involves 16", bare hands, and mangled fingers..

[oldtimer]

I'm in NC and I can tell you with certainty that the best male softball players on the planet are in there later 30s mid 40s and yes a few early 50s .The women's game is different the best are in there 20s and mid 30s for sure .Softball for men is a game of accuracy and you learn this over time .

 

I still play at my advanced age in the slow pitch leagues, where the fences are set at 300 feet. Mostly, guys over 70 don't hit the ball out and few over 75 can. Those age groups use hotter bats. The younger guys have more bat speed, hence power, and use restricted bats to keep the HR's down some. A lot are kind of heavy so it is nice to see ones who keep in great shape and can still run well.

 

I watched a co-ed league the other night and saw a young woman on a team that could have been a model. Probably 25 and very athletic. She hit to the fence and made great contact every time, Very good speed and I witnessed her run down a long drive over her head. She was every bit as any of the young men playing except for ultimate power, but she probably was 50 pounds lighter than the big hitters. I didn't talk to her but presume she was from some college fast pitch league finding her ownly competition in the co-ed league. This was also in NC in the mountains.

[a700hitter]

That knuckle ball pitchers seek each other out has nothing to do with in-game management of them.

 

And to say he doesn't know how to manage them because he doesn't know the intricacies of the pitch is also BS. Managing the starter also means managing the bullpen. Maybe Cora left him in because he didn't want to use his relievers so early? If he did retire Cruz, was it right or wrong to leave him in? Maybe he is starting t

o lack faith in his bullpen?

I do completely disagree with the notion that he didn't know how to mange Wright because he is a knuckle ball pitcher, and certainly that us fans know more about it than he does...

Well you are strongly disagreeing with a notion that I never put forth. I didn't say that Cora doesn't know how to manage Knuckleballers. I said that they don't know how to coach them. With standard pitchers, they more easily spot mechanical flaws. That he was a knuckleballer had nothing to do with the management issue at hand in that game. He clearly wasn't tired in that game. The issue was that the game was blowing up and he was ineffective. Anyone could see that. Cora had no special insight as you claim. He wasn't going to go out to the mound and tell him to adjust his grip on the ball, because he had no idea why his pitches were hanging like pinatas. He made a very poor management decision and that was obvious.

[notin]

Well you are strongly disagreeing with a notion that I never put forth. I didn't say that Cora doesn't know how to manage Knuckleballers. I said that they don't know how to coach them. With standard pitchers, they more easily spot mechanical flaws. That he was a knuckleballer had nothing to do with the management issue at hand in that game. He clearly wasn't tired in that game. The issue was that the game was blowing up and he was ineffective. Anyone could see that. Cora had no special insight as you claim. He wasn't going to go out to the mound and tell him to adjust his grip on the ball, because he had no idea why his pitches were hanging like pinatas. He made a very poor management decision and that was obvious.

 

You didn't put that notion forth, but the post I originally responded to appeared to.

 

Whether or not Cora mishandled Wright in that one game shouldn't be an indictment of his abilities to handle a knuckle baller. He does have more insights on the matter than many give him credit for. And he very likely takes more matters into account as well...

[a700hitter]

You didn't put that notion forth, but the post I originally responded to appeared to.

 

Whether or not Cora mishandled Wright in that one game shouldn't be an indictment of his abilities to handle a knuckle baller. He does have more insights on the matter than many give him credit for. And he very likely takes more matters into account as well...

Well you confused me, because you were responding to my post. Despite the additional information at Cora's fingertips and his expert knowledge of the game, he so obviously screwed up that decision that us armchair types could notice.

[Spudboy]

Well you are strongly disagreeing with a notion that I never put forth. I didn't say that Cora doesn't know how to manage Knuckleballers. I said that they don't know how to coach them. With standard pitchers, they more easily spot mechanical flaws. That he was a knuckleballer had nothing to do with the management issue at hand in that game. He clearly wasn't tired in that game. The issue was that the game was blowing up and he was ineffective. Anyone could see that. Cora had no special insight as you claim. He wasn't going to go out to the mound and tell him to adjust his grip on the ball, because he had no idea why his pitches were hanging like pinatas. He made a very poor management decision and that was obvious.

 

Exactly.

 

I remember in the 1st inning when Wright was getting shelled, Eck or Remy made the comment that Cora was sticking with Wright because with Knucklers a guy who is getting lit-up can turn it around in the next inning and be effective.

 

Cora did this but f***ed up when it was clear the shelling was going to continue.

 

Using the Eck/Remy rule, Wright should have been pulled no later than at some point in the 3rd inning as I seem to remember.

 

No big deal. s*** happens.

 

But Cora will have to learn to identify the times when Wright will suck and make a move earlier to replace him.

[Kimmi]

I think you are reaching with your last statement. I said I thought Cora made a glaring mistake this time and have no better way to characterize it. You have extended that comment to imply that I said Cora does not understand the game. I did not say directly or imply that.

 

That last statement was not directed at you Oldtimer, though I can understand why you thought it was. My apologies.

 

IMO, you are one of the more rational and level headed posters here. I have no beef with your criticism of Cora.

[Kimmi]

Zach Britton has to be the one we are targeting. My worry is we just do not have the pieces we'd be comfortable trading to take him away. With a it o luck, tat market is set by Herrera's deal, but something tells me possibly not.

 

It depends on what other teams are looking specifically at Britton. I think that other teams can probably outbid us. That said, if another team takes Britton, there should still be good relief help available at a price that we can afford.

[Jack Flap]

Britton is also just coming back from a major injury (torn Achilles?) without great results so far, nor was he exactly dominant last season. He seems like a good target based on pedigree alone, but a close review of his medicals would be crucial.

[Hitch]

It depends on what other teams are looking specifically at Britton. I think that other teams can probably outbid us. That said, if another team takes Britton, there should still be good relief help available at a price that we can afford.

 

Yeah, it's a fair point.

 

I'm hoping Herrera has set the market. Then we should be able to pick up somebody very decent. I do worry our lack of depth in the minors hurts us though.

[Slasher9]

to me without a doubt 2B is our need.

Chicago needs SP.

Boston & Chicago can deal.

 

Javier Baez for ??

would Erod get it done?

[a700hitter]

to me without a doubt 2B is our need.

Chicago needs SP.

Boston & Chicago can deal.

 

Javier Baez for ??

would Erod get it done?

Hmm interesting. In the few minutes since I have read your post, I have gone back and forth on this a few times. I think I like it from the Red Sox standpoint and The Cubs have IF depth.

[Kimmi]

to me without a doubt 2B is our need.

Chicago needs SP.

Boston & Chicago can deal.

 

Javier Baez for ??

would Erod get it done?

 

I would not trade one of our starting pitchers for a 2B.

[Jack Flap]

I don't think our starting pitching is nearly deep enough to be talking about trading Eduardo...and if we add a second baseman, I think it'll be a stopgap type if anything. Right or not, I get the sense that they'll wait on Pedroia until his leg falls off (and perhaps after that, too).

[Slasher9]

I would not trade one of our starting pitchers for a 2B.

in a normal year i wouldnt. but i honestly feel our window is very small and this might be our best chance at a parade. plus Baez has years of control. but.....see below response to FJ...

 

I don't think our starting pitching is nearly deep enough to be talking about trading Eduardo...

now that Wright is broken again i have to hang up the phone on this deal. dammit.

[a700hitter]

I don't think our starting pitching is nearly deep enough to be talking about trading Eduardo...and if we add a second baseman, I think it'll be a stopgap type if anything. Right or not, I get the sense that they'll wait on Pedroia until his leg falls off (and perhaps after that, too).

Especially in light of Wright going on the DL. I think getting Baez for ERod would be selling high on ERod. Baez has some TNT in his bat.

[Bellhorn04]

in a normal year i wouldnt. but i honestly feel our window is very small and this might be our best chance at a parade. plus Baez has years of control. but.....see below response to FJ...

 

 

now that Wright is broken again i have to hang up the phone on this deal. dammit.

 

Too risky to trade E-Rod even before Wright hit the DL. Our starting pitching has been relatively healthy so far this year but that could change suddenly and we don't have that much depth.

[Hitch]

Too risky to trade E-Rod even before Wright hit the DL. Our starting pitching has been relatively healthy so far this year but that could change suddenly and we don't have that much depth.

 

Yeah this how I feel, too. You can never have enough starting pitching.

[Natick to NC]

Especially in light of Wright going on the DL. I think getting Baez for ERod would be selling high on ERod. Baez has some TNT in his bat.

 

Now your talking !!! Love that idea....we must out score these power houses also .Sale ,Price ,Porcello ,Velasquez ,Pom is still good .

Edited June 26, 2018 by Natick to NC

[moonslav59]

ERod might not be our best pitcher, and I get how his nibbling drives us crazy. Going just 5 IP is a serious issue, however, he's got nasty stuff. Many of his past issues were likely related to his knee troubles. The surgery appears to have worked.

 

ERod is the real deal.

 

The main reason to keep him is this:

 

Years of team control after this year:

0 Pom

1 Sale ($13.5M option)

1 Porcello ($20.6M luxury cost)

2 Wright (all arbs)

3 ERod (all arbs)

0 or 4 Price (at $31M luxury cost)

 

[Slasher9]

ERod might not be our best pitcher, and I get how his nibbling drives us crazy. Going just 5 IP is a serious issue, however, he's got nasty stuff. Many of his past issues were likely related to his knee troubles. The surgery appears to have worked.

 

ERod is the real deal.

 

The main reason to keep him is this:

 

Years of team control after this year:

0 Pom

1 Sale ($13.5M option)

1 Porcello ($20.6M luxury cost)

2 Wright (all arbs)

3 ERod (all arbs)

0 or 4 Price (at $31M luxury cost)

 

 

dont get me wrong. i love erod. he is actually my favorite current red sox pitcher. i just dont think we have a parade with holt playing 2b defensively and it is not a stretch to think his offensive numbers will dip.

and i think DD has put us in the position that 2018 is the year we have to go for it.

but again, now that our depth took a big hit with wright on the DL...i withdraw the proposal.....

[Natick to NC]

ERod might not be our best pitcher, and I get how his nibbling drives us crazy. Going just 5 IP is a serious issue, however, he's got nasty stuff. Many of his past issues were likely related to his knee troubles. The surgery appears to have worked.

 

ERod is the real deal.

 

The main reason to keep him is this:

 

Years of team control after this year:

0 Pom

1 Sale ($13.5M option)

1 Porcello ($20.6M luxury cost)

2 Wright (all arbs)

3 ERod (all arbs)

0 or 4 Price (at $31M luxury cost)

 

Moon what about trading Porcello for Baez ?

[Hitch]

Why on earth would they do that?

 

edit: The Cubs I mean.

[Kimmi]

I don't think our starting pitching is nearly deep enough to be talking about trading Eduardo...and if we add a second baseman, I think it'll be a stopgap type if anything. Right or not, I get the sense that they'll wait on Pedroia until his leg falls off (and perhaps after that, too).

 

I agree that our rotation depth is not deep enough to consider trading ERod, unless it was an offer we just couldn't turn down. And now with Wright's injury, even more so.

 

Also, I'm still expecting Pedroia to come back and contribute.

 

In the meantime, I'd like to see Holt get more playing time at 2B over Nunez.

[kenmeister]

Also, I'm still expecting Pedroia to come back and contribute.

 

I haven't heard a peep about Pedroia's status. I think no news is bad news.

[a700hitter]

I agree that our rotation depth is not deep enough to consider trading ERod, unless it was an offer we just couldn't turn down. And now with Wright's injury, even more so.

 

Also, I'm still expecting Pedroia to come back and contribute.

 

In the meantime, I'd like to see Holt get more playing time at 2B over Nunez.

The news on Pedroia is not at all promising, but it would be great if he could come back healthy.

[moonslav59]

Moon what about trading Porcello for Baez ?

 

The 3 arb years for Baez is very tempting. It would be one way to help the future a little bit.

 

I'd certainly consider it, since the money saved by trading Porcello (about $7M pro-rated for this year and $20.6M next year ) for Baez (about $220K this year and his first arb next year.) With this money saved, we could probably get a salary dump SP'er this summer and have much more wiggle room to fill our needs next year.

 

I guess I'm just not so ready to write off Nunez & Holt (and Pedey). I'd like to see how things look by the deadline.

 

I'd probably wait, but the idea is a worthy one to consider.

[Hitch]

You think the Cubs would entertain that offer?