Who Should the Red Sox Trade For?

[notin]

Tough call. I'd have to go with:

 

Teeball > Girls Softball > Mens Rec League Softball > MLB > Mtv Rock N' Jock Softball Challenge > High School Baseball

 

I agree that girl's softball should be above men's leagues. Girl's softball has faster pitching and fewer beers..

[notin]

When I said "I've been watching for decades" it was to make fun of other posters for basically saying that their decades of fandom have given them the experience to be qualified to be a MLB manager (this is a recent reference). Same can be said for my remarks about my extensive coaching (maybe a not so recent reference). There have been a few posters in the past who have lauded their "scouting experience" when all it really was was watching high school baseball. To me, that's not "experience".

 

Agreed. I have extensive experience watching baseball and I would count zero seconds of it as scouting. I don't even think I know what those guys look for sometimes...

[a700hitter]

I agree that girl's softball should be above men's leagues. Girl's softball has faster pitching and fewer beers..

i agree about Girl’s softball. It is probably some of the best competitive Softball you can watch, but Girl’s Softball is just that. There really isn’t much WOMEN’s softball that is played on a very high level. The girl softball players who want to continue paying into adulthood and into their 30’s often need to find co-ed leagues to join.

[notin]

i agree about Girl’s softball. It is probably some of the best competitive Softball you can watch, but Girl’s Softball is just that. There really isn’t much WOMEN’s softball that is played on a very high level. The girl softball players who want to continue paying into adulthood and into their 30’s often need to find co-ed leagues to join.

 

I take my daughter to Chicago Bandits' games on occasion and those players are all part time with other jobs or still in college.

[Maxbialystock]

Alex Cora has been playing professional baseball since 1996 and payed in division 1 college ball before that. Not to mention all the high school ball and youth leagues which probably date back to 1982 or 1983. At some point, he has seen a knuckleball pitcher go flat. In fact, it's a safe bet none of us have ever seen anything on a baseball field he also has not seen.

 

It's possible he just left Wright in because he doesn't believe in burning out his bullpen chasing wins...

 

Can't disagree with you on any of those points, but I can disagree with leaving Wright in when the Sox had scored 5 in the 1st and therefore could win the game. This became much harder when Wright gave up the final 4 runs to make the margin 10-5 against a pitching staff that has been pretty good. I was OK with leaving him in for the 2d inning for the reason you state. Sort of OK with the 2d when he gave up 2 more but which was vindicated by the clean 3d. But I think he should have got someone warming up at the first sign of trouble in the 4th and did not. Given the first 2 innings that was the prudent thing to do. It was the essential thing to do as events proved.

 

Also, as I pointed out on the game thread, in that game Cora had 13 pitchers vs. the norm for MLB teams of 12. That's 8 relievers, including two long relievers who have started this year--Johnson and Velazquez. He has yet to overwork this bullpen.

 

Also, there is no "saving of the bullpen" when the miscreant on the mound has to be pulled early anyway, which is exactly what happened. Wright lasted 3.1 innings, and the bullpen did the rest (5.2 innings). So in fact Cora saved nothing.

 

In fact, that same bullpen had to do 5 innings the next night because ERod stunk it up. But last night Sale went 7 and Kelly and Barnes each went 1 for the shutout. And guess what? Today is a rest day. Did Cora forget about that Thursday night? Don't forget that was also a rest day between the series in Seattle and the series in Minneapolis.

 

I have made countless posts on talksox defending Cora because I like him and think he has been good for this team. But wrong is wrong. Wright had no business being left in a game so that he could give up 10 runs. This time the lineup saved him. In fact, I commented after they had scored 1 lousy run to make the score 10-6 that I liked their unwillingness to roll over and play dead. I don't even mind saying maybe that's because of the way Cora manages.

 

But wrong is still wrong.

[a700hitter]

I take my daughter to Chicago Bandits' games on occasion and those players are all part time with other jobs or still in college.

i didn’t say that it was nonexistent just that there isn’t a lot of it. And I still consider college kids to be kids, not adults.

[a700hitter]

Alex Cora has been playing professional baseball since 1996 and payed in division 1 college ball before that. Not to mention all the high school ball and youth leagues which probably date back to 1982 or 1983. At some point, he has seen a knuckleball pitcher go flat. In fact, it's a safe bet none of us have ever seen anything on a baseball field he also has not seen.

 

It's possible he just left Wright in because he doesn't believe in burning out his bullpen chasing wins...

So what? He still f***ed up the situation despite his pedigree.

[Spudboy]

We have made quite a few moves to get to the team we now put on the field. In my view , it has been worth it. We have an excellent roster. No need to make any more moves to try and create the perfect roster. No need to try and match the Yankees , move for move. Maybe a little tweaking is all that is needed. Let's not go overboard here.

 

^ This.

[notin]

So what? He still f***ed up the situation despite his pedigree.

 

That was in response to the notion that he wasn't familiar with knuckle ball pitchers. He is...

[S5Dewey]

i didn’t say that it was nonexistent just that there isn’t a lot of it. And I still consider college kids to be kids, not adults.

 

Ok.. that explains it. I happen to like high school and college softball very much, and the higher the talent level the more I like it. The thing I don't like about it is the running bunts and slapping at the ball early in the count but thankfully the better teams aren't doing that as much now.

[a700hitter]

That was in response to the notion that he wasn't familiar with knuckle ball pitchers. He is...

Most knuckleball pitchers, coaches and managers will tell you that there isn’t a lot of coaching of knuckleballers that goes on, precisely because they don’t understand what it takes to make a knuckleballer successful. That is why knuckleballers seek out each other. It is like a secret society. If you want to give Cora an excuse for f***ing up that game by saying that no one understands knuckleballers, I’d have an easier time swallowing that excuse than the explanation that he knows so much more about knuckleballers than everyone else. That is just BS imo.

[a700hitter]

The big issue I have with Wilmer Flores is that he is another part-time Swiss Army knife player. He's like a switch-hitting Brock Holt, but a lesser version. I think with Holt, Nunez, Lin and Swihart, the Sox have versatility covered.

 

If the Sox cannot get a player better than Brock Holt or Nunez any deal is a waste of time and limited resources...

Flores is not a switch hitter and he is not the type of utility player that Holt or Nunez is. He is much bigger and stronger than either of those guys. He is also quite a bit younger and still developing as a hitter.

[notin]

Can't disagree with you on any of those points, but I can disagree with leaving Wright in when the Sox had scored 5 in the 1st and therefore could win the game. This became much harder when Wright gave up the final 4 runs to make the margin 10-5 against a pitching staff that has been pretty good. I was OK with leaving him in for the 2d inning for the reason you state. Sort of OK with the 2d when he gave up 2 more but which was vindicated by the clean 3d. But I think he should have got someone warming up at the first sign of trouble in the 4th and did not. Given the first 2 innings that was the prudent thing to do. It was the essential thing to do as events proved.

 

Also, as I pointed out on the game thread, in that game Cora had 13 pitchers vs. the norm for MLB teams of 12. That's 8 relievers, including two long relievers who have started this year--Johnson and Velazquez. He has yet to overwork this bullpen.

 

Also, there is no "saving of the bullpen" when the miscreant on the mound has to be pulled early anyway, which is exactly what happened. Wright lasted 3.1 innings, and the bullpen did the rest (5.2 innings). So in fact Cora saved nothing.

 

In fact, that same bullpen had to do 5 innings the next night because ERod stunk it up. But last night Sale went 7 and Kelly and Barnes each went 1 for the shutout. And guess what? Today is a rest day. Did Cora forget about that Thursday night? Don't forget that was also a rest day between the series in Seattle and the series in Minneapolis.

 

I have made countless posts on talksox defending Cora because I like him and think he has been good for this team. But wrong is wrong. Wright had no business being left in a game so that he could give up 10 runs. This time the lineup saved him. In fact, I commented after they had scored 1 lousy run to make the score 10-6 that I liked their unwillingness to roll over and play dead. I don't even mind saying maybe that's because of the way Cora manages.

 

But wrong is still wrong.

 

It wasn't a good decision, but I think it's premature to say he doesn't know how to handle knuckleballers. And even sillier to think any of us do...

[Kimmi]

To be fair, I would say it doesn't count either. But then I don't think any of our experiences playing high school baseball are relevant to anything that happens on an MLB team...

 

This is a fair post.

[Kimmi]

When I said "I've been watching for decades" it was to make fun of other posters for basically saying that their decades of fandom have given them the experience to be qualified to be a MLB manager (this is a recent reference). Same can be said for my remarks about my extensive coaching (maybe a not so recent reference). There have been a few posters in the past who have lauded their "scouting experience" when all it really was was watching high school baseball. To me, that's not "experience".

 

Believe it or not, I got all of that as it was unfolding.

[Kimmi]

Tough call. I'd have to go with:

 

Teeball > Girls Softball > Mens Rec League Softball > MLB > Mtv Rock N' Jock Softball Challenge > High School Baseball

 

I would put Girls Softball ahead of Teeball, but other than that, I'd agree.

[Kimmi]

i agree about Girl’s softball. It is probably some of the best competitive Softball you can watch, but Girl’s Softball is just that. There really isn’t much WOMEN’s softball that is played on a very high level. The girl softball players who want to continue paying into adulthood and into their 30’s often need to find co-ed leagues to join.

 

If you are talking about a very high level in terms of competitiveness, that is a false statement.

 

If you are talking about a very high level in terms of advanced age, you may may be correct.

[oldtimer]

Believe it or not, I got all of that as it was unfolding.

 

Managing a baseball team is so much more than consistently making the right in game decisions. Handling the players and understanding how they can contribute are things most fans haven't experienced. I do think some fans have a deep understanding of the game and are qualified to comment on some of the in game moves, or lack of moves thar managers are involved with. Cora's handling of Wright and his allowing him to be pounded to 10 earned runs in 3 innings certainly ranks up there as one of his most inexplicable lack of moves this year. Everyone, including managers can and will make mistakes. The problem with that one is it was so glaring that it deserves comment.

[a700hitter]

If you are talking about a very high level in terms of competitiveness, that is a false statement.

 

If you are talking about a very high level in terms of advanced age, you may may be correct.

I didn't say anything about competitiveness. Where did you get that. What is lacking is the number of leagues for women to compete. There just aren't that many women's leagues for women in their 30's plus.

[Kimmi]

Managing a baseball team is so much more than consistently making the right in game decisions. Handling the players and understanding how they can contribute are things most fans haven't experienced. I do think some fans have a deep understanding of the game and are qualified to comment on some of the in game moves, or lack of moves thar managers are involved with. Cora's handling of Wright and his allowing him to be pounded to 10 earned runs in 3 innings certainly ranks up there as one of his most inexplicable lack of moves this year. Everyone, including managers can and will make mistakes. The problem with that one is it was so glaring that it deserves comment.

 

I agree with everything you said here. I think the posters here are very knowledgeable about the game and the reason we come here is to comment on such things. I really don't have any problems with people questioning Cora's decisions. As you said, all managers make mistakes. I question his decisions too, though I will likely defend his decisions more times than not.

 

My only beef is this. Saying that you think Cora made a mistake is one thing. Implying that Cora does not understand the game or does not have certain baseball knowledge because he made a mistake is a completely different thing.

[Kimmi]

I didn't say anything about competitiveness. Where did you get that. What is lacking is the number of leagues for women to compete. There just aren't that many women's leagues for women in their 30's plus.

 

Fair enough.

[oldtimer]

I agree with everything you said here. I think the posters here are very knowledgeable about the game and the reason we come here is to comment on such things. I really don't have any problems with people questioning Cora's decisions. As you said, all managers make mistakes. I question his decisions too, though I will likely defend his decisions more times than not.

 

My only beef is this. Saying that you think Cora made a mistake is one thing. Implying that Cora does not understand the game or does not have certain baseball knowledge because he made a mistake is a completely different thing.

 

I think you are reaching with your last statement. I said I thought Cora made a glaring mistake this time and have no better way to characterize it. You have extended that comment to imply that I said Cora does not understand the game. I did not say directly or imply that.

[Jack Flap]

With Kelvin Herrera already off the board, some remaining rental relievers who will likely be available to contenders in July:

 

Jerry Blevins (NYM), Brad Brach (BAL), Zach Britton (BAL), Santiago Casilla (OAK), Tyler Clippard (TOR), Jake Diekman (TEX), Jeurys Familia (NYM), Jim Johnson (LAA), Sergio Romo (TB), Joakim Soria (CWS), Brad Ziegler (MIA)

 

Add in controllable options like San Diego's Brad Hand, Kirby Yates and Craig Stammen, Cincinnati's Raisel Iglesias, Baltimore's Mychal Givens and Miami's Drew Steckenrider and Kyle Barraclough and you have a pretty deep class of available relievers. With so many sellers, expect a buyer's market for these guys.

 

Kansas City's underwhelming return for 3.5 months of Herrera, who many considered the top reliever available, confirms that. In outfielder Blake Perkins, third baseman Kelvin Gutierrez and pitcher Yohanse Morel, the Royals received three largely unknown prospects who were 10th (Perkins), 11th (Gutierrez) and unranked (Morel) by MLB.com at the time of the deal. Yes, Dayton Moore is trusting is scouts as he always does. But it sure looks like the days of teams getting returns like the Yankees got for both Aroldis Chapman and Andrew Miller back in 2016 are threatened by a market oversaturated by tanking clubs.

 

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/06/mlb_news_and_notes_adam_jones_red_sox_trade_rumors.html

[Hitch]

Zach Britton has to be the one we are targeting. My worry is we just do not have the pieces we'd be comfortable trading to take him away. With a it o luck, tat market is set by Herrera's deal, but something tells me possibly not.

[Natick to NC]

Zach Britton has to be the one we are targeting. My worry is we just do not have the pieces we'd be comfortable trading to take him away. With a it o luck, tat market is set by Herrera's deal, but something tells me possibly not.

 

This is a good post .Zach is a guy who would solidify this bully .I don't know how it is to trade with that guy over there but this is a piece that would give us peace .

[notin]

Zach Britton has to be the one we are targeting. My worry is we just do not have the pieces we'd be comfortable trading to take him away. With a it o luck, tat market is set by Herrera's deal, but something tells me possibly not.

 

If the price is set by the Herrera deal, Britton might not be so unattainable. Baltimore will probably start out looking for some sort of Andrew Miller/Aroldis Chapman package at first, but should eventually have to settle. It could depend on how paitent Dobrowski is, which can also backfire if he it doesn't work and he has no plan B left by then

[notin]

Most knuckleball pitchers, coaches and managers will tell you that there isn’t a lot of coaching of knuckleballers that goes on, precisely because they don’t understand what it takes to make a knuckleballer successful. That is why knuckleballers seek out each other. It is like a secret society. If you want to give Cora an excuse for f***ing up that game by saying that no one understands knuckleballers, I’d have an easier time swallowing that excuse than the explanation that he knows so much more about knuckleballers than everyone else. That is just BS imo.

 

That knuckle ball pitchers seek each other out has nothing to do with in-game management of them.

 

And to say he doesn't know how to manage them because he doesn't know the intricacies of the pitch is also BS. Managing the starter also means managing the bullpen. Maybe Cora left him in because he didn't want to use his relievers so early? If he did retire Cruz, was it right or wrong to leave him in? Maybe he is starting to lack faith in his bullpen?

 

I do completely disagree with the notion that he didn't know how to mange Wright because he is a knuckle ball pitcher, and certainly that us fans know more about it than he does...

[notin]

i didn’t say that it was nonexistent just that there isn’t a lot of it. And I still consider college kids to be kids, not adults.

 

You do realize that post was more in support of your point about professional softball for advanced ages, right? That players at even the highest level of softball in this country are all in their early 20's...

[notin]

Flores is not a switch hitter and he is not the type of utility player that Holt or Nunez is. He is much bigger and stronger than either of those guys. He is also quite a bit younger and still developing as a hitter.

 

I do need to verify these things about Flores; he is a RHH.

 

He isn't a bad player, but I wonder if the Mets would prefer to move the older and more expensive Asdrubal Cabrera. As both players have the same control remaining, they might be open to moving Flores, but which one would be more difficult to acquire?

 

Even with Flores being only 27, he isn't a long-term solution, which might be what the Sox want at the position.

 

No one is really sure if Dombrowski is targeting 2b, although I think he should be. If he is, it seems like, given our trade fodder, a pending free agent to finish out this year would be the target...

[Natick to NC]

You do realize that post was more in support of your point about professional softball for advanced ages, right? That players at even the highest level of softball in this country are all in their early 20's...

 

I'm in NC and I can tell you with certainty that the best male softball players on the planet are in there later 30s mid 40s and yes a few early 50s .The women's game is different the best are in there 20s and mid 30s for sure .Softball for men is a game of accuracy and you learn this over time .