Sox starting pitching thread

[Hitch]

But he drove away Theo? And is he the reason why Ben finished last 3 of 4 seasons? Last time that I looked, Ben is into his 3rd year since being replaced and no one will trust him with a payroll.

 

How many jobs has he interviewed - and been turned down - for because they don't trust him with the payroll?

[Larry Cook]

Isn’t Ben working for Toronto now?

 

Don’t they have something like the 7th best farm system with soon to be ripe prospects?

[a700hitter]

Isn’t Ben working for Toronto now?

 

Don’t they have something like the 7th best farm system with soon to be ripe prospects?

Not as a GM.

[Bellhorn04]

Isn’t Ben working for Toronto now?

 

Don’t they have something like the 7th best farm system with soon to be ripe prospects?

 

Ben is good at developing farms.

 

Personally I think he's happy to be working out of the spotlight too.

[notin]

Some feel that DD depleted a farm system that he didn’t build. It’s not exactly like our former farm hands are lighting up MLB. In the meantime we are into our 3rd year of an All Star closer and our 2nd year of an Ace All Star starter. That isn’t depletion. That is maximizing assets. He kept Benintendi, and Devers. He kept the right guys.

 

To be fair, all of those assets have had very little chance yet. Some haven't had any chance. If Margot or Moncada were putting up the same numbers here, would you think the Sox should give up on them?

[notin]

Not as a GM.

 

He's the Vice President of Baseball Operations. And apparently in charge of building the farm system...

[Hitch]

Ben is good at developing farms.

 

Personally I think he's happy to be working out of the spotlight too.

 

Same here.

 

I'm not sure why some need to keep posting complete guesswork as factual information.

[a700hitter]

To be fair, all of those assets have had very little chance yet. Some haven't had any chance. If Margot or Moncada were putting up the same numbers here, would you think the Sox should give up on them?

If Margot and Moncada were here instead of Benintendi and Devers, we wouldn’t be in first place, and I would probably be really upset that they let Benintendi go and in a years or less Obwould be upset about Devers leaving too.

[a700hitter]

Ben is good at developing farms.

 

Personally I think he's happy to be working out of the spotlight too.

Sure, who wouldn’t want an additional boss.

[notin]

If Margot and Moncada were here instead of Benintendi and Devers, we wouldn’t be in first place, and I would probably be really upset that they let Benintendi go and in a years or less Obwould be upset about Devers leaving too.

 

 

That wasn’t the question.

 

All I asked was if they were here posting the same numbers, would you expect the Sox to give up on them? This isn’t a question about re-arranging trades; it’s about what is expected from a prospect and how quickly.

[notin]

Sure, who wouldn’t want an additional boss.

 

Or less pressure? There is always a trade off...

[a700hitter]

Or less pressure? There is always a trade off...

In my experience, working for the guy with the additional pressure never lessened my stress. The shot rolls downhill. Plus, how much pressure is on the GM in Toronto?

[a700hitter]

That wasn’t the question.

 

All I asked was if they were here posting the same numbers, would you expect the Sox to give up on them? This isn’t a question about re-arranging trades; it’s about what is expected from a prospect and how quickly.

i don’t even know how to answer that hypothetical question. Would there be any other option to waiting for them to develop? I would certainly be open to trading them if they were putting up those numbers for us.

[mvp 78]

Isn’t Ben working for Toronto now?

 

Don’t they have something like the 7th best farm system with soon to be ripe prospects?

 

Of the Jays top 10 prospects, only 3 were signed under Ben. The top tier of Guerrero, Bichette and Alford were all in the farm before Ben became VP.

 

Time will tell what Ben can go for their system. Right now, it's just a bunch of lottery tickets.

[Kimmi]

Oh but he could have done it another way and maintained a high ranking of the Sox farm system and a perpetual flow of young, cost controlled talent to Fenway!!!!!1!!!

 

Who cares about division titles and playoff births?

 

Who said that the two things are mutually exclusive?

 

Division titles and playoff berths would still be in the picture.

[a700hitter]

Who said that the two things are mutually exclusive?

 

Division titles and playoff berths would still be in the picture.

That's right. They aren't mutually exclusive. Spud was being sarcastic. there is no reason to finish last with a $200 million payroll while also restocking the farm.

[notin]

Who said that the two things are mutually exclusive?

 

Division titles and playoff berths would still be in the picture.

 

Agreed.

 

Reportedly the goal was to emulate the Braves’ farm system from the 1990’s and have a continual stream of prospects in Fenway. The Braves did manage a division title or two in that stretch...

[notin]

i don’t even know how to answer that hypothetical question. Would there be any other option to waiting for them to develop? I would certainly be open to trading them if they were putting up those numbers for us.

 

It's not about waiting for them to develop. You have repeatedly said the Sox gave up "garbage" in their trades.

 

Now if Yoan Moncada (97OPS+ in 549PA at 23 years old) and Manny Margot (OPS+ 86 in 885PA at 23 years old) were performing similarly on the Sox, would you recommend they be replaced? If so, you'd hardly be the only fan.

 

But on the other hand, both players are only 23 and don't have much experience.

 

Not to mention most of the payers the Sox have dealt away have not even reached the majors yet, including Kopech, Dubon, Basabe, Espinoza, Guerra, etc.).

 

I think calling them garbage is a bit premature. They might be that way, but not yet...

[Bellhorn04]

It's not about waiting for them to develop. You have repeatedly said the Sox gave up "garbage" in their trades.

 

Now if Yoan Moncada (97OPS+ in 549PA at 23 years old) and Manny Margot (OPS+ 86 in 885PA at 23 years old) were performing similarly on the Sox, would you recommend they be replaced? If so, you'd hardly be the only fan.

 

But on the other hand, both players are only 23 and don't have much experience.

 

Not to mention most of the payers the Sox have dealt away have not even reached the majors yet, including Kopech, Dubon, Basabe, Espinoza, Guerra, etc.).

 

I think calling them garbage is a bit premature. They might be that way, but not yet...

 

I tend to agree. One thing you can say is that none of them been big immediate help.

[a700hitter]

It's not about waiting for them to develop. You have repeatedly said the Sox gave up "garbage" in their trades.

 

Now if Yoan Moncada (97OPS+ in 549PA at 23 years old) and Manny Margot (OPS+ 86 in 885PA at 23 years old) were performing similarly on the Sox, would you recommend they be replaced? If so, you'd hardly be the only fan.

 

But on the other hand, both players are only 23 and don't have much experience.

 

Not to mention most of the payers the Sox have dealt away have not even reached the majors yet, including Kopech, Dubon, Basabe, Espinoza, Guerra, etc.).

 

I think calling them garbage is a bit premature. They might be that way, but not yet...

I wasn't referring to the players individually as garbage. Each of them has been at best mediocre, and some are yet to develop enough to get to the Majors. Taken as a whole I do think we gave up a pile of garbage when compared to what we landed-- two elite studs (Kimbrel and Sale). It is a figure of speech.

[oldtimer]

To bad that Beeks freaks when pitching in the majors. He has good stuff but his head is doing him in so far. He needs to go back down and get control whatever is causing him to be nervous.

[Spudboy]

To bad that Beeks freaks when pitching in the majors. He has good stuff but his head is doing him in so far. He needs to go back down and get control whatever is causing him to be nervous.

 

Yeah I suspect he just has a case of the nerves.

 

It does seem clear that at this point he is more promising than Henry Owens ever was in MLB.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think the Sox we’re trying to bump his stock for a trade and thus far, it’s backfired

[Spudboy]

I think the Sox we’re trying to bump his stock for a trade and thus far, it’s backfired

 

Nonsense.

 

They need innings.

[harmony]

Yeah I suspect he just has a case of the nerves.

 

It does seem clear that at this point he is more promising than Henry Owens ever was in MLB.

Henry Owens, who is only one year older than Jalen Beeks, had a more impressive MLB debut in his 2015 rookie season:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=owenshe02&t=p&year=2015

 

Owens had been a Top 50 prospect for two years before his call-up while Beeks has never appeared in the major prospect rankings. In the SoxProspects organizational rankings, Owens peaked at No. 2 in a loaded system while Beeks currently ranks sixth in a lightly regarded system:

 

http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm

[Spudboy]

Henry Owens, who is only one year older than Jalen Beeks, had a more impressive MLB debut in his 2015 rookie season:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=owenshe02&t=p&year=2015

 

Owens had been a Top 50 prospect for two years before his call-up while Beeks has never appeared in the major prospect rankings. In the SoxProspects organizational rankings, Owens peaked at No. 2 in a loaded system while Beeks currently ranks sixth in a lightly regarded system:

 

http://www.soxprospects.com/history.htm

 

So what is your point? Owens is a failure.

 

All your precious projections and ranking have meant dick.

 

 

Jesus you guys love to use stats and ranking just to say nothing.

 

Maybe you can get some medication or therapy for that condition.

[notin]

So what is your point? Owens is a failure.

 

All your precious projections and ranking have meant dick.

 

 

Jesus you guys love to use stats and ranking just to say nothing.

 

Maybe you can get some medication or therapy for that condition.

 

To be fair, I wasn’t sure why you thought Beeks was more promising than Owens.

 

Owens didn’t work out but did have the occasional outing that made people think there was some hope for him. Beeks hasn’t even done that yet...

[mvp 78]

Nonsense.

 

They need innings.

 

No, obviously they only brought him up to showcase him. They didn't need to find people to start due to injuries to their pitching staff.

 

Also, I don't believe 2 appearances ruin someone's trade stock.

[mvp 78]

To be fair, I wasn’t sure why you thought Beeks was more promising than Owens.

 

Owens didn’t work out but did have the occasional outing that made people think there was some hope for him. Beeks hasn’t even done that yet...

 

Owens always walked far more batters and struck out fewer batters than Beeks is doing this year.

 

People liked Owens more because of his body type. That's the only reason.

[kenmeister]

To bad that Beeks freaks when pitching in the majors. He has good stuff but his head is doing him in so far. He needs to go back down and get control whatever is causing him to be nervous.

 

I wish they'd started Beeks, then had Velazquez come in so he could have gotten the win. I really hope Beeks turns it around. He has nothing left to prove at AAA.

 

I think Velazquez and Johnson are both viable starters. The Sox just need to clear space for one of them and actually dedicate themselves to developing a pitcher.