Sox starting pitching thread

[mvp 78]

Beeks 2018 in AAA:

 

ERA 3.05 INN 82.2 BB 23 K 110 WHIP 1.08

 

Better than any prospect playing for the Mariner's AAA squad.

[Kimmi]

I tend to agree. One thing you can say is that none of them been big immediate help.

 

Right. We traded away our potential future for the present.

[a700hitter]

I wish they'd started Beeks, then had Velazquez come in so he could have gotten the win. I really hope Beeks turns it around. He has nothing left to prove at AAA.

 

I think Velazquez and Johnson are both viable starters. The Sox just need to clear space for one of them and actually dedicate themselves to developing a pitcher.

Cora probably wanted to guard against Beeks melting down to start the game and blowing up the game in the first inning like in his last start. He went with the more veteran guy first.

[notin]

Owens always walked far more batters and struck out fewer batters than Beeks is doing this year.

 

People liked Owens more because of his body type. That's the only reason.

 

It is a fair point that Owens BB/9 skyrocketed once he hit AAA ball for some reason.

 

Beeks' BB/9 has done the same thing at MLB, but the sample size is so small this isn't a concern yet. But it would be nice if he could do anything to inspire confidence...

[notin]

Right. We traded away our potential future for the present.

 

The Sox traded away 6 seasons apiece from Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Margot, and Allen to get 6 total seasons from Sale and Kimbrel.

 

Now if this gets a WSC or two, it might be worth it.

 

Of course, the Sox won a WS in 2013 and by 2015, fans were calling for Cherington and Farrell to be fired before the All Star break. Will these same fans be happy with a 2018 or 2019 WSC and maybe a last place finish in 2020 and/or 2021?

[Bellhorn04]

Right. We traded away our potential future for the present.

 

The question is how good of a potential future those players represent.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course, the Sox won a WS in 2013 and by 2015, fans were calling for Cherington and Farrell to be fired before the All Star break. Will these same fans be happy with a 2018 or 2019 WSC and maybe a last place finish in 2020 and/or 2021?

 

The happiness of winning titles does not last very long at all for most fans. You're absolutely right about that.

[dgalehouse]

Beeks has shown potential in AAA . Nothing wrong with giving him an opportunity to show what he can do in the big leagues. On the other hand , how would you like to be in last place , hopelessly out of contention and starting a washed up Gallardo in Fenway Park ?

[OH FOY]

That 2013 Team was one of the best Mentally Tough Teams I have ever seen. They could grind out wins, and I loved it. Edited July 11, 2018 by OH FOY!

[mvp 78]

Beeks has shown potential in AAA . Nothing wrong with giving him an opportunity to show what he can do in the big leagues. On the other hand , how would you like to be in last place , hopelessly out of contention and starting a washed up Gallardo in Fenway Park ?

 

People are complaining that he needs to go back to AAA and dominate there before he comes up. When you look at his numbers, he is dominating in AAA. I'm not sure what else he has to prove there. He needs to prove in in MLB either in the rotation or the pen.

[Kimmi]

The Sox traded away 6 seasons apiece from Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Margot, and Allen to get 6 total seasons from Sale and Kimbrel.

 

Now if this gets a WSC or two, it might be worth it.

 

Of course, the Sox won a WS in 2013 and by 2015, fans were calling for Cherington and Farrell to be fired before the All Star break. Will these same fans be happy with a 2018 or 2019 WSC and maybe a last place finish in 2020 and/or 2021?

 

I have said before that if we win a WS (or 2) in the next couple of years, than all of the trades are definitely worth it. That is the ultimate goal, after all. The problem still remains that nothing is guaranteed, no matter how good the team is.

[Kimmi]

The question is how good of a potential future those players represent.

 

That is a very valid question.

[notin]

The question is how good of a potential future those players represent.

 

And there remains the quandary. Certainly most of the experts feel they represent a lot of potential. But then, in any job that involves predicting the future, people are wrong quite often.

 

These are the same people who threw Byron Buxton to the top of all prospect rankings, and he can barely stay in MLB, and then went on to ignore Max Muncy, who is looking like Jimmie Foxx 2.0 with 21 HRs in 200 ABs this year.

 

Still, when the future is uncertain, it feels like the safer move to stick with the better potential. 3 years ago, if Minnesota was offered Muncy for Buxton, they would have declined and possibly felt insulted.. Today, the Dodgers - who signed Muncy as a free agent after Oakland released him - would be the ones hanging up on that offer...

[notin]

Beeks 2018 in AAA:

 

ERA 3.05 INN 82.2 BB 23 K 110 WHIP 1.08

 

Better than any prospect playing for the Mariner's AAA squad.

 

Sort of unfair.

 

The Mariners AAA squad pitches in the Pacific Coast League, a league notorious for its small ballparks and unfavorable pitching conditions. I consider PCL batting averages to be like SAT scores - you get 200 points just for showing up.

[mvp 78]

The Sox traded away 6 seasons apiece from Moncada, Kopech, Guerra, Basabe, Margot, and Allen to get 6 total seasons from Sale and Kimbrel.

 

Now if this gets a WSC or two, it might be worth it.

 

Of course, the Sox won a WS in 2013 and by 2015, fans were calling for Cherington and Farrell to be fired before the All Star break. Will these same fans be happy with a 2018 or 2019 WSC and maybe a last place finish in 2020 and/or 2021?

 

According to some people, we are supposed to be happy if we win in 2018 and go into the tank the following seasons.

 

I just want them to be competitive every year.

[notin]

People are complaining that he needs to go back to AAA and dominate there before he comes up. When you look at his numbers, he is dominating in AAA. I'm not sure what else he has to prove there. He needs to prove in in MLB either in the rotation or the pen.

 

I'm one of Beeks' biggest detractors. But he does need more of a shot in MLB...

[notin]

According to some people, we are supposed to be happy if we win in 2018 and go into the tank the following seasons.

 

I just want them to be competitive every year.

 

That's not what Dombrowski is building. When you go all in on a win now, it makes it very tough to keep up competitive level of play EVERY year...

[mvp 78]

Sort of unfair.

 

The Mariners AAA squad pitches in the Pacific Coast League, a league notorious for its small ballparks and unfavorable pitching conditions. I consider PCL batting averages to be like SAT scores - you get 200 points just for showing up.

 

Not unfair. Look at their farm. Beeks would be their best pitching prospect in AAA. Harmony takes enough shots at the Sox, I may as well take one back at the M's...

[mvp 78]

That's not what Dombrowski is building.

 

Sure it is. He's selling some guys at peak value (Kopech, Moncada, et al) and keeping the prospects he likes. This team is still very young (Betts, Beni, JBJ, Xander, Devers, Vazquez) and should compete for a long while. He's done a good job at building this bullpen with a lot of AAA guys doing their part (Poyner, Braiser, etc) and we all were told that was DD's achilles heel.

[Kimmi]

According to some people, we are supposed to be happy if we win in 2018 and go into the tank the following seasons.

 

I just want them to be competitive every year.

 

That's all I want, which is what I've posted many times.

 

It's very difficult to remain competitive every year when you decimate the farm. That's the point.

 

Dombrowski has gone all in to win now. If we do win it all, then we can say mortgaging the future was worth it.

[mvp 78]

That's all I want, which is what I've posted many times.

 

It's very difficult to remain competitive every year when you decimate the farm. That's the point.

 

Dombrowski has gone all in to win now. If we do win it all, then we can say mortgaging the future was worth it.

 

The team wasn't competitive in 2012, 2014 and 2015 with its good farm though.

[Kimmi]

The team wasn't competitive in 2012, 2014 and 2015 with its good farm though.

 

Due to flukes, not due to roster construction.

 

Nothing can be done about that.

[mvp 78]

Due to flukes, not due to roster construction.

 

Nothing can be done about that.

 

A better rotation could have fixed it. That's not Ben's job or anything.

[notin]

A better rotation could have fixed it. That's not Ben's job or anything.

 

What was wrong with the 2014 rotation? Or the 2012 rotation, for that matter?

[Dojji]

I'm one of Beeks' biggest detractors. But he does need more of a shot in MLB...

 

Then he'd better start attacking the strike zone more. If he can't trust his stuff and avoid nibbling he has no place in the major leagues

[mvp 78]

What was wrong with the 2014 rotation? Or the 2012 rotation, for that matter?

 

2014: 4.36 ERA and 26th in the league.

 

2012: 5.19 ERA and 27th in the league.

[notin]

2014: 4.36 ERA and 26th in the league.

 

2012: 5.19 ERA and 27th in the league.

 

Was that due to having weak pitching or good pitchers underperforming? The 2014 staff won a World Series one year previous and still had Lester and Lackey...

[Bellhorn04]

Due to flukes, not due to roster construction.

 

Nothing can be done about that.

 

Ben must have been about the flukiest GM ever though.

[notin]

Sure it is. He's selling some guys at peak value (Kopech, Moncada, et al) and keeping the prospects he likes. This team is still very young (Betts, Beni, JBJ, Xander, Devers, Vazquez) and should compete for a long while. He's done a good job at building this bullpen with a lot of AAA guys doing their part (Poyner, Braiser, etc) and we all were told that was DD's achilles heel.

 

Well, suspected peak value, anyway.

[mvp 78]

Was that due to having weak pitching or good pitchers underperforming? The 2014 staff won a World Series one year previous and still had Lester and Lackey...

 

2013 had the insane Buchholz run. Lackey was a back of the rotation guy who had his best AL ERA in 8 years. Dempster retired after 2013. Peavy was clearly on the back end of his career.

 

It's not surprising that the Sox rotation took a substantial hit in 2014. They had to even rely on RDLR for 100 innings that year.

 

For Lester, the aberration was 2012.