Sox starting pitching thread

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

The farm system is depleted, not the time to deal for a rental.

[Larry Cook]

The experts on the radio had us sending devers, Rodriguez, Velazquez, beeks and mata to Baltimore for manny.

 

Desperate dave does not build for tomorrow. He will burn us to the ground for a chance to win today!

[harmony]

When was the last time an elite position player was dealt at the deadline?

 

Seems like it's usually pitchers who are the big prizes at the deadline.

J.D. Martinez was traded to a contender last year on July 19.

[cp176]

The experts on the radio had us sending devers, Rodriguez, Velazquez, beeks and mata to Baltimore for manny.

 

Desperate dave does not build for tomorrow. He will burn us to the ground for a chance to win today!

 

experts on the radio = experts on talksox - lol

[notin]

I wonder what the Orioles would ask for Machado. Velazquez would probably be the centerpiece.

 

A 30 year old pitcher with 57 MLB IP is the centerpiece for Machado? Not very likely.

[notin]

The experts on the radio had us sending devers, Rodriguez, Velazquez, beeks and mata to Baltimore for manny.

 

Desperate dave does not build for tomorrow. He will burn us to the ground for a chance to win today!

 

Would that be Baltimore radio?

[jacksonianmarch]

“Experts” on the radio, lol. The Sox cannot take from their big league squad. Losing ERod, who’s in the #2-4 conversation in your rotation and is cost controlled would be stupid. I get Devers going to BAL. I think that’s the kind of return the O’s are looking at. If you had another year of Manny, then it makes sense. But Devers for a rental isn’t a good idea for a team that needs cost controlled guys

[notin]

“Experts” on the radio, lol. The Sox cannot take from their big league squad. Losing ERod, who’s in the #2-4 conversation in your rotation and is cost controlled would be stupid. I get Devers going to BAL. I think that’s the kind of return the O’s are looking at. If you had another year of Manny, then it makes sense. But Devers for a rental isn’t a good idea for a team that needs cost controlled guys

 

Typically feels like that ate from the other team's media deciDing they need all of the best rebuild options for their best player.

 

While JD Martinez went for squat last year, I don't expect Machado to be foo cheap. But I also Don't think he is going to bankrupt anyone.

 

Unless the acquiring team is as well in the farm add Boston. I suppose that is the one bright side to having a depleted farm; we have no untouchable prospects to worry about losing. ...

[Bellhorn04]

J.D. Martinez was traded to a contender last year on July 19.

 

Right you are.

 

Next question - when was the last time an elite position player with an expiring contract was dealt at the deadline for a big haul?

 

I'm looking for a comp for Machado obviously.

[jacksonianmarch]

You’ve also got a clear window. You’re in it now. If you can make a move that can win you a title right now, you do it. With the new rules in place, you can trade players you just drafted. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Sox dangle Casas et al for something of consequence. You need a bat to lengthen the lineup. Even if it means moving JBJ to a 4th OFer role or moving Devers down to AAA, it’s worth it for this year

[OH FOY]

You’ve also got a clear window. You’re in it now. If you can make a move that can win you a title right now, you do it. With the new rules in place, you can trade players you just drafted. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Sox dangle Casas et al for something of consequence. You need a bat to lengthen the lineup. Even if it means moving JBJ to a 4th OFer role or moving Devers down to AAA, it’s worth it for this year

 

Agree, 100%, we don't have the 4-5 year window many have said. 2 years tops I see.

[OH FOY]

Yanks got hell of a young good Pitching in the Minors, yesterdays kid, not even their best. Down the road this will be the difference.

[Bellhorn04]

Agree, 100%, we don't have the 4-5 year window many have said. 2 years tops I see.

 

The 4-5 year window included 2016 and 2017.

[Station 13]

You’ve also got a clear window. You’re in it now. If you can make a move that can win you a title right now, you do it. With the new rules in place, you can trade players you just drafted. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Sox dangle Casas et al for something of consequence. You need a bat to lengthen the lineup. Even if it means moving JBJ to a 4th OFer role or moving Devers down to AAA, it’s worth it for this year

 

We definitely need another competent bat.

 

Also this "window" crap talk is ********. The Sox are not going away.

[jacksonianmarch]

We definitely need another competent bat.

 

Also this "window" crap talk is ********. The Sox are not going away.

 

They’re not going away per se, but the way they’ve been GM’d has painted them into a financial corner. When building a winning roster, you reach a point to where you require new blood to take over for expensive vets. With DD gutting your system, the turnover isn’t going to be smooth and this will cause your squads to suffer long term. That being said, all of DD’s moves were aimed at this year and next. You’ve won 68% of your games at the third pole of the season. I’d say most fans would have signed up for this after the finish of 2015

[moonslav59]

They’re not going away per se, but the way they’ve been GM’d has painted them into a financial corner. When building a winning roster, you reach a point to where you require new blood to take over for expensive vets. With DD gutting your system, the turnover isn’t going to be smooth and this will cause your squads to suffer long term. That being said, all of DD’s moves were aimed at this year and next. You’ve won 68% of your games at the third pole of the season. I’d say most fans would have signed up for this after the finish of 2015

 

All of DD's moves (except JD) were geared towards 2016-2019 and maybe 2020. That's a 4-5 year "window" not 2, but your point is still valid.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sox were coming off a last place season. I anticipate he figured adding Price and Kimbrel would get them team back to respectability. I doubt he expected an ALE title. If DD drew up a blueprint when he arrived, he’d say 2016 is a build up year 2017-2019 is the window and 2020 and on is the attempt to keep the band together and hope for the best. This year is clearly the pinnacle of the window. I think next year is as well assuming they re-sign Kimbrel and don’t miss Pom (which they don’t at the moment). But next year, you’ll see the first bit of attrition when Kelly walks away to a big contract that the Sox couldn’t afford by keeping Kimbrel. That attrition really starts to hit come 2020

[moonslav59]

The Sox were coming off a last place season. I anticipate he figured adding Price and Kimbrel would get them team back to respectability. I doubt he expected an ALE title. If DD drew up a blueprint when he arrived, he’d say 2016 is a build up year 2017-2019 is the window and 2020 and on is the attempt to keep the band together and hope for the best. This year is clearly the pinnacle of the window. I think next year is as well assuming they re-sign Kimbrel and don’t miss Pom (which they don’t at the moment). But next year, you’ll see the first bit of attrition when Kelly walks away to a big contract that the Sox couldn’t afford by keeping Kimbrel. That attrition really starts to hit come 2020

 

That "last place team" in 2016 had a solid core of young players and was much better on paper than their record indicated. They were never projected to finish in last place in 2014 or 2015.

 

You don't have to be projected as winning the ALE or AL Championship to be considered a solid contender for at least making the World Series.

 

I still think our "window" started in 2016. We almost had the best AL record playing in a tougher division than CLE & TEX.

 

Yes, we lost in the first round, but we made it to the dance and had a good shot at winning it all.

[d-money]

This team needs to stop losing in the divisional round. It has expectations. They gonna win 95 plus games. They likely might be the wildcard. Right now i don’t see them as strong as the skankees.

[jacksonianmarch]

The problem you run into when you say the Sox need to win in the ALDS, is that it cheapens the regular season you’re having. Not every team makes the post season. Being on par for a third straight appearance ain’t a bad thing

[notin]

We definitely need another competent bat.

 

Also this "window" crap talk is ********. The Sox are not going away.

 

They have a decent foundation of position players - Betts, Benintendi, Bradley, Devers, Vazquez - but beyond them, what else do they have that will still he here in 3 years? Price will be older than and very likely less effetive. ERod is nice to have and might be special someday. But when it comes to filling those other holes, they don't have much. Especially pitching...

[jacksonianmarch]

And they won’t have the money. This is the quandary. The yanks didn’t have to worry about that after the 2001 WS loss. They just stacked the payroll and didn’t care. Once the lux tax was added, they didn’t care either. Once the navigation under the limit meant $100 mil back in the bank and exceeding the top limit meant limiting funds in the INTL forum AND moving your first pick back 10 slots, now you’re talking a real punishment. Any money over the top limit is taxed at 90%. So for the dopes our there hoping for Harper and his likely $30 mil salary, that’s actually a $57 mil per year contract. It’s untenable at those marks

[OH FOY]

The 4-5 year window included 2016 and 2017.

 

OK makes sense, which is why it is more a priority now, not to worry about Luxury Tax, or moving younger players, to get the best possible line-up now.

[Kimmi]

The farm system is depleted' date=' not the time to deal for a rental.[/quote']

 

Thanks Dave!

[Kimmi]

The experts on the radio had us sending devers, Rodriguez, Velazquez, beeks and mata to Baltimore for manny.

 

Desperate dave does not build for tomorrow. He will burn us to the ground for a chance to win today!

 

That is just nuts. If Dombrowski does a move like that, I will disown him.

[Station 13]

That is just nuts. If Dombrowski does a move like that, I will disown him.

 

LOL

 

If he does that he would be run out of town.

[OH FOY]

Starting in 2014 we had no pitching nothing in the Minors. You start with Pitching. DD moved Positional Prospects and our best Pitching Prospects, for Pitching, had to. No Pitching for a long time, in the Minors.

Now as we get another year into the season and next, these Pitchers will be Older. Still Nothing the Minors. Will these Older guys be effective as they get Older? Who knows? They are going to cost more.

You make your move now. Its bad, I know, but we painted ourselves in a corner.

Bad contracts, by previous GM, has us tapped out. We've been paying a huge Luxury Tax for years, but nobody has seen it. Contracts to Players that did nothing, to me is no Different then paying a Luxury Tax. Might as well pay for players that could win it. Prospects, and young players who have a future, wont have one, within 3 years. No Pitching. Simple.

Might as well go for it now, and suffer later. Its coming down to this. Not hard to see.

 

Only way around it is spend a lot again on FA's, and the circle continues.

Edited June 16, 2018 by OH FOY!

[notin]

OK makes sense, which is why it is more a priority now, not to worry about Luxury Tax, or moving younger players, to get the best possible line-up now.

 

But they are concerned about the luxury tax. .

[mvp 78]

The experts on the radio had us sending devers, Rodriguez, Velazquez, beeks and mata to Baltimore for manny.

 

Desperate dave does not build for tomorrow. He will burn us to the ground for a chance to win today!

“Experts.” But if there’s a degree on their wall, I haven’t seen one.

[Bellhorn04]

The experts on the radio had us sending devers, Rodriguez, Velazquez, beeks and mata to Baltimore for manny.

 

Desperate dave does not build for tomorrow. He will burn us to the ground for a chance to win today!

 

That is just nuts. If Dombrowski does a move like that, I will disown him.

 

That's one of the most ludicrous rumors I've ever read.