The 2018 Bullpen Season Thread

[moonslav59]

No changes to the pen because of budgetary restrictions and hopes that the already-heavily-invested-in Smith and Thornburg would be major contributors.

 

We have a few million to spend and still stay under the $40M penalty line. If we can get to the trade deadline, we only pay a pro-rated share of about 30-33% of an aquired player's salary.

 

We should be able to pick up a very good RP'er or two good ones, if needed.

 

By then, we should know more about Thornburg & Smith, Barnes & Noble (Hembree), Wright, Velazquez & Johnson and guys like Poyner, Workman, Scott, Maddox & Buttrey.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pen arms always get moved for something of value at the deadline and you don't even know if you need one. Smith is pitching better and Thornburg is apparently ready to rock. Before you empty what little else you have in the minors, you are better off seeing what you have. Barnes and Hembree aren't very good as a bridge, but they could be pretty good when shifted to mop up or "behind" duty.

[moonslav59]

Pen arms always get moved for something of value at the deadline and you don't even know if you need one. Smith is pitching better and Thornburg is apparently ready to rock. Before you empty what little else you have in the minors, you are better off seeing what you have. Barnes and Hembree aren't very good as a bridge, but they could be pretty good when shifted to mop up or "behind" duty.

 

We got...

 

2017: Addison Reed for Stephen Nogosek, Gerson Bautista and Jamie Callahan.

 

2016: Brad Ziegler for Jose Almonte and Luis Alejandro Basabe

 

I agree, we have a lot of pen arms to go through before deciding we need to trade for one.

 

Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly and a healthy Thornburg all look like 8th and 9th inning guys.

 

Velazquez, Barnes, Hembree may work out as 5-7 inning guys, but if not, we still could try any of these guys before making a trade:

 

Johnson (may be out of chances real soon)

Wright (a real wild card)

Poyner (has looked good)

Maddox (looked good last year)

Scott

Workman

Buttrey

 

That's 14 guys for 7 slots.

 

Also, maybe Beeks or Walden.

 

 

[MADSTORK]

You forgot Trey Ball

[moonslav59]

You forgot Trey Ball

 

As the late Lowell George once sang,

 

"So I'll light another cigarette

And try to remember to forget"

 

 

[Maxbialystock]

Bullpen looked pretty darn good today/tonight, 0 runs in 3.2 innings and 4 different guys.

 

Price looked pretty good too. So did ERod and Pom in their most recent starts, both against the Yankees. Now, if Porcello and Sale will just come around, we might have a rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

You forgot Trey Ball

 

Funny how you never show up after the Sox bullpen has a great game.

 

Also funny that you haven't said anything about Kelly, one of your Three Stooges, now having a 2.33 ERA and a WHIP of .93.

[Slasher9]

Bullpen looked pretty darn good today/tonight, 0 runs in 3.2 innings and 4 different guys.

 

Price looked pretty good too. So did ERod and Pom in their most recent starts, both against the Yankees. Now, if Porcello and Sale will just come around, we might have a rotation.

pretty sure Poms "most recent start" was yesterday vs Toronto. and it was a struggle for him to pitch into the 5th inning and wasn't able to get through the inning. hence our BP was needed for 3+ innings. not sure that qualifies as "pretty good".?

[User Name]

Pom looks like a guy who's not yet all the way back from injury.

[Maxbialystock]

pretty sure Poms "most recent start" was yesterday vs Toronto. and it was a struggle for him to pitch into the 5th inning and wasn't able to get through the inning. hence our BP was needed for 3+ innings. not sure that qualifies as "pretty good".?

 

I wrote it before Pom's start yesterday, which I thought was awful even though he only gave up 3 runs. It took him 12 outs and over 100 pitches to do that. Bullpen had to get 15 outs.

[Maxbialystock]

Pom looks like a guy who's not yet all the way back from injury.

 

Agree. But the bullpen done good--four of them, including Kelly with the save.

[Slasher9]

I wrote it before Pom's start yesterday, .

 

i didn't notice that. apologies.

[Maxbialystock]

i didn't notice that. apologies.

 

Your point was still well taken. In the game thread I kept backing Pom, especially against jacksonianmarch, right up until the wheels came off in the 5th.

 

I have been anti-Pom most of the time, but moonslav has made a good case for being patient. Plus he had a really good year in 2017.

 

For the life of me, though, I don't see how he does it. We have four lefty starters on this team and three of them use their changeup, but not this guy. On the other hand, he went six pretty solid innings against the Yankees. He's now had 5 starts and two were quality, barely. His WAR is .2, and Velazquez's is 1.0, and that to me says a whole lot especially when Velazquez has pitched more innings than Pom.

[User Name]

Agree. But the bullpen done good--four of them, including Kelly with the save.

 

I like Pom's chances to bounce back. I'm also not as down on the BP as some of are, because I think what it needs is another dependable arm so the rest of the pieces fall into place.

[illinoisredsox]

Wright activated, Velazquez to the DL with a strained back:

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23504207/dustin-pedroia-boston-red-sox-begin-rehab-assignment

 

As well as Velazquez has pitched, maybe a few of the pen guys should strain their backs as well.

[moonslav59]

Wright activated, Velazquez to the DL with a strained back:

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23504207/dustin-pedroia-boston-red-sox-begin-rehab-assignment

 

As well as Velazquez has pitched, maybe a few of the pen guys should strain their backs as well.

 

Phantom DL or what?

 

Maybe it's for real.

 

I hope he gets better... all the way better.

[illinoisredsox]

Phantom DL or what?

 

Maybe it's for real.

 

I hope he gets better... all the way better.

 

Got to be for real. He has options, they could have just sent him down for the same 10-day stint.

 

If it were Johnson or Hembree, it would be a possible phantom move.

[Bellhorn04]

Strained back does indeed sound like a classic phantom DL injury. But as noted that doesn't make sense in this case.

[mvp 78]

Strained back does indeed sound like a classic phantom DL injury. But as noted that doesn't make sense in this case.

 

Sox have been saying that he hasn’t looked right for over a week.

[OH FOY]

Never liked Knucklers out of BP. None dating back to Wilhelm. You can easily lose a game without a hit. Even with a clean inning its stressful, takes a while to get a good feel for that pitch, and you really want to bring in a knuckler, in High leverage situation, guy on third with 2 Outs, or even second, with less then 2 Outs.

One wild Pitch could be game.

Edited May 15, 2018 by OH FOY!

[S5Dewey]

Never liked Knucklers out of BP. None dating back to Wilhelm. You can easily lose a game without a hit. Even with a clean inning its stressful, takes a while to get a good feel for that pitch, and you really want to bring in a knuckler, in High leverage situation, guy on third with 2 Outs, or even second, with less then 2 Outs.

One wild Pitch could be game.

 

I agree. I want to see a knuckleballer always start with a clean inning. There are too many things that can go wrong when a pitcher is throwing the knuckler.

[mvp 78]

I agree. I want to see a knuckleballer always start with a clean inning. There are too many things that can go wrong when a pitcher is throwing the knuckler.

 

Which is why you just don’t emoloy knuckleballers.

[notin]

I agree. I want to see a knuckleballer always start with a clean inning. There are too many things that can go wrong when a pitcher is throwing the knuckler.

 

While a lot of people feel that way, the Sox do have a good catching staff that can handle it.

 

The overwhelming majority of wild pitches and passed balls we all see are on fastballs, but no one would ever say that about a fastball pitcher. The biggest issue with a knuckleballer is that if he doesn't have it, it is simple batting practice for any major league hitter. But then that can be said about any breaking ball as well...

[mvp 78]

While a lot of people feel that way, the Sox do have a good catching staff that can handle it.

 

The overwhelming majority of wild pitches and passed balls we all see are on fastballs, but no one would ever say that about a fastball pitcher. The biggest issue with a knuckleballer is that if he doesn't have it, it is simple batting practice for any major league hitter. But then that can be said about any breaking ball as well...

The majority of passed balls are on fastballs because it’s the most common pitch thrown. You’d have to do an analysis of passed balls vs total pitches thrown by type to say which pitch is hardest to handle. From my experience, knucklers to don’t look fun to catch.

[cp176]

I agree. I want to see a knuckleballer always start with a clean inning. There are too many things that can go wrong when a pitcher is throwing the knuckler.

 

I agree but to be honest I would not have minded much if he been traded when he was pitching so very well. Always liked wake but knucklers in general - not for me.

[notin]

The majority of passed balls are on fastballs because it’s the most common pitch thrown. You’d have to do an analysis of passed balls vs total pitches thrown by type to say which pitch is hardest to handle. From my experience, knucklers to don’t look fun to catch.

 

I get why most are on fastballs, but I think for most catchers, the knuckler might be more a matter of reputation. We all watched Wakefield pitche for years in every role, including closer. Do you recall a stretch where passed balls or wild pitches were ever a problem?

 

Who do you think averaged more wild pitches per seasons - Nolan Ryan or Phil Niekro?

[illinoisredsox]

The majority of passed balls are on fastballs because it’s the most common pitch thrown. You’d have to do an analysis of passed balls vs total pitches thrown by type to say which pitch is hardest to handle. From my experience, knucklers to don’t look fun to catch.

 

Definitely an art to it. There was a reason Mirabelli caught Wakefield almost exclusively. Remember the Wakefield/Varitek high wire act in extra innings in game 5 of the 2004 ALCS? Varitek had 3 passed balls which easily could have ended the game and never given Ortiz a chance to drop one in from of Williams in the 14th. And that was Varitek at his defensive peak.

[OH FOY]

Ryan pitched 60 innings in his career as a Reliever had 2 Wild Pitches. Don't know about Passes Balls.

Niekro pitched 254 innings as a reliever had 20 Wild Pitches, again don't know about Passed Balls.

 

Here's a stat that looks cool Niekro pitched 5404 innings, gave up 5044 hits.

 

Ryan pitched 5386 innings gave up 3923 hits. I'll take the Wild Pitches.

Edited May 15, 2018 by OH FOY!

[notin]

This isn't about the better pticher as much as it is the situational wildness, right?

 

Ryan also pitched 27 seasons and had 277 wild pitches. 10.3 per season.

 

Niekro pitched for 24 seasons and had 226 wild pitches. 9.4 per season.

 

Not sure on passed balls, but those are not solely attributable to the pitcher.

 

Mark Baldwin was a turn of the century fastball pitcher who had 221 wild pitches pitches, which is an amazing achievement for someone who only pitched for 7 years...

[Slasher9]

I like a knuckleballer in the rotation. when that butterfly is dancing not only does it mow down batters but it can also EFF with their swing for the next day vs traditional pitcher.

they can also eat innings as the stress on the arm/elbow is not the same as FB/CB pitchers.