The 2018 Bullpen Season Thread

[notin]

Personally at this point ...id give significant at bats to Swihart and Let Hanley sit after the NY series ...I would not let it vest now and I was one who wanted the guy to vest .The bat swing is long he very rarely squares up balls anymore ...Hanley to me is a number 6 hitter at best now.... Mookie ,X ,JD,Devers ,Pedey ,Hanley ,? The guy is average at best now ....Give Swihart a real rotation ..personally if I'm managing Devers moves to 1b Nuney goes to 3b and Swihart and JD switch time at DH and LF Mitch plays 1b and DH backup ....Hanley gets froze out .I do not have faith in Hanley Ramirez anylonger .

 

Shows where Hanley stands among Sox fans. His first baf week and already it's time to bring in Swihart? Not even Moreland, mind you.

 

It might be getting close to admitting there is a strong possibility Swihart isn't very good either. Certainly there is no reason to have more faith in him than Hanley.

 

People need to stop thinking the sox need to base their season around his option. Thr guy rarely plays the field and stays healthy. Likely he either gets hurt or plays well enough to EARN the option, which is a good thing.

 

Also this scenario above has no second baseman

[Bellhorn04]

Shows where Hanley stands among Sox fans. His first baf week and already it's time to bring in Swihart? Not even Moreland, mind you.

 

It might be getting close to admitting there is a strong possibility Swihart isn't very good either. Certainly there is no reason to have more faith in him than Hanley.

 

People need to stop thinking the sox need to base their season around his option. Thr guy rarely plays the field and stays healthy. Likely he either gets hurt or plays well enough to EARN the option, which is a good thing.

 

Also this scenario above has no second baseman

 

Natick to NC is off his rocker.

[jacksonianmarch]

A DH first base option who isn’t an elite level hitter is not worth the option. He cannot earn the option unless he out hits JD, and he won’t do that

[Bellhorn04]

A DH first base option who isn’t an elite level hitter is not worth the option. He cannot earn the option unless he out hits JD, and he won’t do that

 

Well of course he's not going to outhit JD.

 

But if Hanley is OPS'ing .825 in August and the Sox are in the race you think they should start sitting him?

[S5Dewey]

Well of course he's not going to outhit JD.

 

But if Hanley is OPS'ing .825 in August and the Sox are in the race you think they should start sitting him?

 

Jack hopes they will!!

[moonslav59]

Yeah, I disagree. Talk to me at the end of the season. You don’t watch the best closer in baseball walk as well as a capable starter and stay as good. You’re hoping that Thornberg can be good again, but that surgery is a mixed bag. Smith hasn’t looked good in his return from surgery either. You might need to pay a premium to keep Kelly and let Kimbrel walk and hope for the best.

 

Maybe I'm a wishful thinker, but I expected Smith to struggle for a while. I think we will improve. Yes, Thornburg's return is not something to count on, but there is a chance he and Smith can take up the slack left by a departing Kimbrel.

 

Of course, we'd be better with all 3, but since Smith and Thornburg have given us nothing, so far, once could hope that both could replace Kimbrel next year, and it's not robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

Replacing Pom might be harder, but right now, we're on top of MLB without Pom helping at all. Perhaps losing him won't be as bad as we thought in March.

 

I know we'll need a lot to go right. I agree that we need to not let HRam vest, but I still think the "window" is wider than many feel it is. To me, it is 4 years: 2017-2020. Maybe this year, on paper, is our best chance, but I like our chances the next 2 years as well.

[notin]

A DH first base option who isn’t an elite level hitter is not worth the option. He cannot earn the option unless he out hits JD, and he won’t do that

 

So the Sox should play inferior players and prioritize economics over winning?

[mvp 78]

Natick to NC is off his rocker.

 

There's always one of us.

[moonslav59]

So the Sox should play inferior players and prioritize economics over winning?

 

Right now, HRam is not necessarily the "best option".

 

Moreland should play 1B (perhaps even ve LHPs), so it's basically HRam vs JBJ with Jmart at DH or corner OF depending on who is chosen.

 

I could see a lefty-righty platoon at 1B with HRam DH'ing whenever JMart plays the OF. That might limit HRam to just enough PAs not to vest, AND it might be the best team to play.

 

HRam is at .690 his last 14 days and .446 the last 7 days. I realize JBJ isn't any better, but he's a much better fielder and base runner.

[mvp 78]

When I'm riding high

You're always by my side

When I'm laid low you abandon me...

 

 

Typical Sox fans.

[mvp 78]

I'd keep Hanley at his normal DH/1b rotation through the end of May. If he doesn't turn around, then you pull back and reduce his AB's. You don't do it after a week or two.

[notin]

Right now, HRam is not necessarily the "best option".

 

Moreland should play 1B (perhaps even ve LHPs), so it's basically HRam vs JBJ with Jmart at DH or corner OF depending on who is chosen.

 

I could see a lefty-righty platoon at 1B with HRam DH'ing whenever JMart plays the OF. That might limit HRam to just enough PAs not to vest, AND it might be the best team to play.

 

HRam is at .690 his last 14 days and .446 the last 7 days. I realize JBJ isn't any better, but he's a much better fielder and base runner.

 

Moreland is the hot bat, but one bad week from Hanley shouldn't remove him from the picture altogether. And certainly shouldn't open the door for Swihart to become the fallback option.

 

There is also the option to bench Bradley and move Martinez to left field every now and then....

[notin]

I'd keep Hanley at his normal DH/1b rotation through the end of May. If he doesn't turn around, then you pull back and reduce his AB's. You don't do it after a week or two.

 

Exactly.

[mvp 78]

Exactly.

 

One of my guiding principles is "don't freak out until Memorial Day."

 

Yes, SSS's can be frustrating when you are watching every game. However, just realize that the season is a long slog and if Hanley turns it around, nobody will fret about two down weeks in April and May.

[Bellhorn04]

HRam is at .690 his last 14 days and .446 the last 7 days. I realize JBJ isn't any better, but he's a much better fielder and base runner.

 

You have an interesting relationship with 'teeny sample sizes'.

[Slasher9]

I'd keep Hanley at his normal DH/1b rotation through the end of May. If he doesn't turn around, then you pull back and reduce his AB's. You don't do it after a week or two.

deleted

Edited May 8, 2018 by Slasher9
deleted cause im an idiot

[moonslav59]

Moreland is the hot bat, but one bad week from Hanley shouldn't remove him from the picture altogether. And certainly shouldn't open the door for Swihart to become the fallback option.

 

There is also the option to bench Bradley and move Martinez to left field every now and then....

 

I'm not saying HRam's 2 week sample size means he should be benched, but certainly playing him less looks more enticing now than 2 weeks ago.

[moonslav59]

You have an interesting relationship with 'teeny sample sizes'.

 

LOL

 

His year OPS is now below .800, too.

[Maxbialystock]

LOL

 

His year OPS is now below .800, too.

 

He is 4th on the team in runs and rbi's and and total bases.

[Slasher9]

if he doesn't heat back up soon I can definitely see his AB's getting squeezed sooner than later just because of the contract.....

Last 12 games: 0 HR / 4 RBI / .690 OPS.

Im actually surprised they haven't sat him already.

[Bellhorn04]

LOL

 

His year OPS is now below .800, too.

 

Yeah, it's .798. On May 6. One big game and it's back up to .850+.

 

You really do like to mix and match with the sample sizes.

[Maxbialystock]

if he doesn't heat back up soon I can definitely see his AB's getting squeezed sooner than later just because of the contract.....

Last 12 games: 0 HR / 4 RBI / .690 OPS.

Im actually surprised they haven't sat him already.

 

The Sox have bad bats in the bottom third of the order: 2b/C/CF. The top six in the order, on the other hand, are the best top six collectively in MLB. That includes HanRam. He is not the problem.

 

I am fine with playing Moreland at 1B now and then, but I would then move Hanley to DH, JD to LF, Beni to CF, and JBJ to the bench.

[moonslav59]

He is 4th on the team in runs and rbi's and and total bases.

 

Small sample size, LOL!

 

[moonslav59]

Yeah, it's .798. On May 6. One big game and it's back up to .850+.

 

You really do like to mix and match with the sample sizes.

 

Clearly, sitting HRam a little more looks more reasonable now than it did 2 weeks ago.

 

It's not just about HRam; it's about JMart and Moreland mashing the ball.

 

Right now, he's juts barely on pace to vest, It wouldn't take much more "resting" to set him on a pace to not vest.

 

I'm not for benching him.

[Slasher9]

The Sox have bad bats in the bottom third of the order: 2b/C/CF. The top six in the order, on the other hand, are the best top six collectively in MLB. That includes HanRam. He is not the problem.

 

I am fine with playing Moreland at 1B now and then, but I would then move Hanley to DH, JD to LF, Beni to CF, and JBJ to the bench.

 

2 of those 3 are excellent defensively. what are our other options for those 3 positions? Hanley is not hitting right now. if he is not hitting, he is easily swapped out defensively with MM. it doesn't take moving 2 other players and weakening 2 defensive positions to replace HanRam with MM. it actually improves the D.

but if we do what you are recommending...a non hitting defensive liability is kept in the lineup. a non hitting defensive wizard is replaced by a non hitting avg defensive RFer. and that RFer is replaced by a horrific fielder that is already in the lineup as a hitter only. I like my idea better. we shall see what Cora thinks......

[moonslav59]

The Sox have bad bats in the bottom third of the order: 2b/C/CF. The top six in the order, on the other hand, are the best top six collectively in MLB. That includes HanRam. He is not the problem.

 

I am fine with playing Moreland at 1B now and then, but I would then move Hanley to DH, JD to LF, Beni to CF, and JBJ to the bench.

 

Last year, our 7,8 & 9 slots were pretty good compared to other teams and their disparities between 1-6 and 7-9.

 

2017 Sox by batting order slots areas:

 

.779 1-2

.744 3-6

.698 7-9

(Our 7 and 8 hitters had a higher OPS than out 5 hitter.)

 

This year:

1-2 .874

3-6 .901

7-9 .576

Our 9 hitters (.625) has been almost as good as our 2 hitter (.634).

[oldtimer]

Last year, our 7,8 & 9 slots were pretty good compared to other teams and their disparities between 1-6 and 7-9.

 

2017 Sox by batting order slots areas:

 

.779 1-2

.744 3-6

.698 7-9

(Our 7 and 8 hitters had a higher OPS than out 5 hitter.)

 

This year:

1-2 .874

3-6 .901

7-9 .576

Our 9 hitters (.625) has been almost as good as our 2 hitter (.634).

 

Not certain what point your trying to make with these statistics. Clearly we have to keep one of our better defensive catchers in the game and hope they can contribute to the hitting once in a while. Pedey is only a short while away. Will he hit well? Anyone's guess, but based on his history, one would think so. Nunez hasn't seemed to be fully healed and may need more time, perhaps on the DL. JBJ has been the big disappointment, sinking even further offensively. I say disappointment, but in reality he is doing what he has been doing for years. He hasn't been a consistently good contact hitter. I don't see JDM as a horrible fielder. Perhaps more range limited, but okay. Beni can move to center and Betts is the best there is in right. Beni is still making solid contact and should come along.

 

My view is that with Mitch Moreland hitting we can put a lineup out there with only one weak hitter and we can live with that.

 

What could cause us problems is injuries. One key player down and we are weaker. Nunez will contribute if his knee is back to where it was prior to the injury. He can make up to some degree for the one injury. Two key players down and we are in trouble. We still have Holt as a backup plan. Swihart may be traded if we aren't going to use him. The problem being it leaves us without a clear backup choice if either Vazquez or Leon get injured.

[cp176]

Not certain what point your trying to make with these statistics. Clearly we have to keep one of our better defensive catchers in the game and hope they can contribute to the hitting once in a while. Pedey is only a short while away. Will he hit well? Anyone's guess, but based on his history, one would think so. Nunez hasn't seemed to be fully healed and may need more time, perhaps on the DL. JBJ has been the big disappointment, sinking even further offensively. I say disappointment, but in reality he is doing what he has been doing for years. He hasn't been a consistently good contact hitter. I don't see JDM as a horrible fielder. Perhaps more range limited, but okay. Beni can move to center and Betts is the best there is in right. Beni is still making solid contact and should come along.

 

My view is that with Mitch Moreland hitting we can put a lineup out there with only one weak hitter and we can live with that.

 

What could cause us problems is injuries. One key player down and we are weaker. Nunez will contribute if his knee is back to where it was prior to the injury. He can make up to some degree for the one injury. Two key players down and we are in trouble. We still have Holt as a backup plan. Swihart may be traded if we aren't going to use him. The problem being it leaves us without a clear backup choice if either Vazquez or Leon get injured.

 

JD has played 16 games for us in the outfield which sounds just about right. There has been nothing so far to indicate that he is not an acceptable option out there on a somewhat limited basis. He is a professional hitter who can still play. If he feels that playing the outfield in a limited role keeps him involved mentally which he feels makes him a better hitter than I say he has to play out there some of the time. dhing him full time right now would be a huge mistake and the people calling the shots seem to know that. With respect to our catching situation, we are stuck. they are both adequate I guess behind the plate, we just need to keep hoping that one of them can hit just a little. As for JBJ, if he starts to hit great but if the current slump continues, he is going to have to start taking a seat and maybe even serving as a late game defensive substitute. I love the guy but there is no way he stays out there full-time if he can't hit .200. Moreland needs to play as long as he hits and no matter how bad Ramirez looks to some we can't just dump another guy who can hit just a little.

[jacksonianmarch]

cp, there is plenty to say he is not an asset defensively. The problem you have right now is that your elite defender in CF isn't hitting enough to justify his starting spot. You are a vastly better defensive team with the B's out there than with Beni in CF and JD in LF. Beni is not a good CFer. JD is a terrible LFer. But if that alternative is having top notch defense and basically a pitcher batting in you lineup, then you need to do it to justify the space. The sox OF has Royals circa 2015 level defensive potential, but that team also had solid offensive production from Gordon and Cain while rotating players through RF, which is admittedly a far less demanding or important defensive position than CF. I am intrigued as to how this plays out. The sox IF defense is awful, so the OF defense was trying to balance out the runs they are losing on the infield. If the OF defense is rough aside from Betts, then you're looking at more lost runs but more run production.

[cp176]

cp, there is plenty to say he is not an asset defensively. The problem you have right now is that your elite defender in CF isn't hitting enough to justify his starting spot. You are a vastly better defensive team with the B's out there than with Beni in CF and JD in LF. Beni is not a good CFer. JD is a terrible LFer. But if that alternative is having top notch defense and basically a pitcher batting in you lineup, then you need to do it to justify the space. The sox OF has Royals circa 2015 level defensive potential, but that team also had solid offensive production from Gordon and Cain while rotating players through RF, which is admittedly a far less demanding or important defensive position than CF. I am intrigued as to how this plays out. The sox IF defense is awful, so the OF defense was trying to balance out the runs they are losing on the infield. If the OF defense is rough aside from Betts, then you're looking at more lost runs but more run production.

 

I would never argue that our outfield lineup defensively falls off a bit with JD out there. The issue is that his bat at least so far this season far outweighs what anybody thinks of him defensively. I have heard everybody tell me how bad Martinez is in the outfield for the most part based on prior stats. They and you as well might be right, I just haven't seen it yet. He has been adequate and if he feels that playing part time out there makes him a better hitter because he is just more mentally involved in the game then he needs to be out there at least as much as he has been. His bat is that good. We have two black holes in the lineup when JBJ hits and we have to have someone catch. The bigger picture is that we are off to a good start as are the Yankees.