The 2018 Bullpen Season Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

Trade chip is Erod for a reliever. That right there is pure comedy gold in a sad sad way.

 

ERod is one of your starting 5 and you don’t have another guy capable of replacing him right now. When Velasquez returns, he might end up supplanting Pomeranz if he doesn’t get his act straight. If ERod can get his head right, there’s no way you deal him ever.

 

Now if you deal ERod, it’s not in season. If he is moved, it’s a roster reshuffle and those aren’t done for playoff teams in season. Those are done in the off season

[cp176]

Let's see - tied for first with two capable catchers who haven't hit much - a center fielder who hasn't hit at all - a bullpen that some people question. What shall we do? What problems we have. Starting pitching is a strength but we could trade E-Rod and pick up a catcher and maybe even a bullpen.

 

That suggestion is a joke right- good one.

[Bellhorn04]

Trade chip is Erod for a reliever. That right there is pure comedy gold in a sad sad way.

 

I took it as sarcasm.

 

If it wasn't, it's a tragic comedy.

 

This is the rare occasion I have to defend Stork. Unless he edited it out of his post, he didn't actually suggest trading ERod for a reliever, he just said he was a trade chip, after mocking the idea of trading JBJ for a reliever.

[Bellhorn04]

He’s currently not a 2 win player

 

That's true, but so is the statement that you can get a good reliever cheaper than that, as noted on the Ziegler and Reed acquisitions.

[moonslav59]

This is the rare occasion I have to defend Stork. Unless he edited it out of his post, he didn't actually suggest trading ERod for a reliever, he just said he was a trade chip, after mocking the idea of trading JBJ for a reliever.

 

True, but within the context and flow of the conversation, it seemed like that was what he was suggesting.

 

My apologies, if that was not his intent.

[notin]

This is the rare occasion I have to defend Stork. Unless he edited it out of his post, he didn't actually suggest trading ERod for a reliever, he just said he was a trade chip, after mocking the idea of trading JBJ for a reliever.

 

Given the Sox depth at starting pitcher, E-Rod is hardly a trade chip.

 

Relievers can be had for very little and still turn out to be effective, as has been noted already (Ziegler, Reed).

 

Of course, it is only May 18, and very few teams are looking to make moves just yet. Even the teams who realize they are hopelessly out of it are going to wait for more bidders in order to get the best offer. The best think Dombrowski can do is maybe look at the relievers who have not signed anywhere yet, and there still are a few available. The problem is, many of them are way, way behind in getting ready for the season and won't be available to step right in...

[MADSTORK]

True, but within the context and flow of the conversation, it seemed like that was what he was suggesting.

My apologies, if that was not his intent.

 

 

 

Let me clarify the ERod trade chip comment.

 

You are correct ERod for a reliever would be just as ridiculous as trading JBJ for the same.

 

I believe ERod can get you a significant piece or pieces since his upside is still high from what I have read. Far as Boston is concerned

I would sell high because of the past injury history and let’s not forget the career 4.5 ERA to date.

 

Again, with the 19 free agent class of arms you could improve now by dealing this player and upgrade significantly in 19

[a700hitter]

Let me clarify the ERod trade chip comment.

 

You are correct ERod for a reliever would be just as ridiculous as trading JBJ for the same.

 

I believe ERod can get you a significant piece or pieces since his upside is still high from what I have read. Far as Boston is concerned

I would sell high because of the past injury history and let’s not forget the career 4.5 ERA to date.

 

Again, with the 19 free agent class of arms you could improve now by dealing this player and upgrade significantly in 19

I would never trade an everyday position player who is an all star for a pitcher. That’s just me. I would also never trade a good starting pitcher for a reliever. Edited May 19, 2018 by a700hitter

[notin]

I would never trade an everyday position player who is an all star for a pitcher. That’s just me. I would also never trade a food starting pitcher for a reliever.

 

Trading a good starting pitcher for a reliever seems like a rasonable blanket statement. But if you take into account the financials, it can make sense, especially long term. For example, would you deal David Price and his remaining 4 years $120+ mill for someone from that killer Milwaukee bullpen? And then there are times with pending free agency that it makes sense, too.

 

Trading an All Star position player for a pitcher can also have its time and place, especially if you take into account years of control.

 

but if the point is position players are more valuable than pitchers, there are plenty of GMs who appear to take that stance at its core...

[moonslav59]

Let me clarify the ERod trade chip comment.

 

You are correct ERod for a reliever would be just as ridiculous as trading JBJ for the same.

 

I believe ERod can get you a significant piece or pieces since his upside is still high from what I have read. Far as Boston is concerned

I would sell high because of the past injury history and let’s not forget the career 4.5 ERA to date.

 

Again, with the 19 free agent class of arms you could improve now by dealing this player and upgrade significantly in 19

 

I get your point.

 

ERod's injury history is almost totally related to his knee. I'm hopeful the surgery will put an end to that chapter in his career.

 

I'm still extremely confident in ERod's continued improvement to the point where he will be a strong #2 type with the potential of being an ace at times.

 

Maybe I'm just a homer.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think people said the same about Doubront. What it comes down to is his ability to repeat his delivery and spot his pitches. He has overwhelming stuff, but he gets into trouble when he flies out of the zone and then starts having to heave it over the middle

[oldtimer]

I get your point.

 

ERod's injury history is almost totally related to his knee. I'm hopeful the surgery will put an end to that chapter in his career.

 

I'm still extremely confident in ERod's continued improvement to the point where he will be a strong #2 type with the potential of being an ace at times.

 

Maybe I'm just a homer.

 

Maybe it is a frame of mind with him. He is not capable of painting the corners without giving up walks and running his own pitch count up. Would he be better off going for another couple inches of the plate and let the defense help him?

[moonslav59]

Maybe it is a frame of mind with him. He is not capable of painting the corners without giving up walks and running his own pitch count up. Would he be better off going for another couple inches of the plate and let the defense help him?

 

I see it like this: ERod has tremendous stuff. I'm not really sure, if he lacks control or not. I think he intentionally nibbles the edges of the strike zone in hopes of the hitter swinging at balls outside the strike zone. Most great pitchers do this. ERod just has not mastered it, yet. The "yet" might be wishful thinking on my part.

 

For argument's sake, let's say he suddenly tries to aim just a quarter inch closer to the plate when "nibbling." Sure, hitters might get a few more hits than normally, but he'd likely walk less batters and maybe keep his pitch count down. Who knows if this would make him a better pitcher or not.

 

I'm fine with him continuing like he normally has done when healthy and not hobbled by a bad knee... walks and all... high pitch count and all. He's stayed pretty steady around 3.2 to 3.4 BB/9, but his H/9 has steadily gone down (8.9>8.3>8.3>7.4 this year)

 

We don't need 5 Sales to win it all.

[notin]

We don't need 5 Sales to win it all.

 

Good thing. Because there aren't 5 Sales out there.

 

Sale leads all pitches in fWAR since 2015. Ahead of Scherzer. Ahead of Kershaw. Ahead of everyone...

[moonslav59]

Good thing. Because there aren't 5 Sales out there.

 

Sale leads all pitches in fWAR since 2015. Ahead of Scherzer. Ahead of Kershaw. Ahead of everyone...

 

Well, afterall, he is....

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

[a700hitter]

Trading a good starting pitcher for a reliever seems like a rasonable blanket statement. But if you take into account the financials, it can make sense, especially long term. For example, would you deal David Price and his remaining 4 years $120+ mill for someone from that killer Milwaukee bullpen? And then there are times with pending free agency that it makes sense, too.

 

Trading an All Star position player for a pitcher can also have its time and place, especially if you take into account years of control.

 

but if the point is position players are more valuable than pitchers, there are plenty of GMs who appear to take that stance at its core...

I would consider that more of salary dump than a trade. Financials being somewhat equal, i wouldn't trade a good starter for a reliever.

[jacksonianmarch]

Tazawa just got DFA'd.

[mvp 78]

Tazawa just got DFA'd.

 

His arm died in 2015

[jacksonianmarch]

His arm died in 2015

 

John Farrell convicted of murder

[Jasonbay44]

I liked Taz too, sucks he got overworked so much.

[Bellhorn04]

John Farrell convicted of murder

 

Scott Proctored.

[jacksonianmarch]

Scott Proctored.

 

Torre is serving a similar sentence

[Spudboy]

Jeez Taz was a workhorse for the Sox.

 

I will never forget his call-up appearance in NY.

 

He got pounded. But he was not overwhelmed.

[Station 13]

he was great for us in Boston. Pitch great against everybody but the Jays, so they had a man in white all along.

[callmebigpapi98]

I've been back and forth on this current Red Sox bullpen all year long. On one hand, they have spoiled quite a few games, and certain guys appear erratic (namely Barnes and Hembree) but I read an article that showed that the numbers are not as bad as people think. I think Thornburg will be huge, especially with Smith out, but I still think we may need a guy at the deadline. Brad Hand or Iglesias may be interesting options. What do you Sox fans think? Here's the article in case anyone is interested: https://redsoxunfiltered.com/2018/05/21/the-underrated-red-sox-bullpen/

 

Also, Colome would be an excellent addition, but the Rays may hold onto him if they keep contending.

[vegasbob]

I try not to think of them too much particularly after meals. Was glad to see Carson Smith throw his arm down the tunnel and make room to test Thornburg in a couple weeks. Hembree and Barnes have trouble with throwing strikes recently. Even Kimbrel has given up 4 bombs, but he's the one you can count on to dominate when he's on. Joe Kelly needs to keep doing well for this bunch to keep the Sox up with the Yankees.

 

Maybe a better question is why the starters cannot get through 5 or 6 innings. And it is not Cora mismanaging them. Look at pitch counts through 3 or 4 innings. Posting 20 pitches per inning for the starters is getting way too common.

[SoxHop]

Moon. how are our releivers doing????

[notin]

If you go by fWAR, the Sox have the second best bullpen in the AL, behind NY.

 

If yo go by ERA they are fourth best, behind Houston, NY and Toronto.

 

Houston has fewer fWAR because the bullpen has pitched roughly 25% fewer innings. Toronto has a better ERA but less fWAR because their team ERA in the bullpen is a mirage. The Jays' relievers are walking more, striking out less and giving up more home runs that the Sox relievers. Their better bullpen ERA won't last if they keep pitching this poorly...

[CharlieWhigg]

They're not a top-five unit by any means, but I think they're a lot better than they're given credit for, especially when Thornburg comes back. Just keep Hembree off the mound lol

[Spudboy]

I think the Sox BP is okay.

 

Relief pitcher's performance varies.

 

Nature of the beast.