The 2018 Bullpen Season Thread

[cp176]

I think the Sox BP is okay.

 

Relief pitcher's performance varies.

 

Nature of the beast.

 

What do you mean by ok? please explain further.

How do their performances vary? Please quantify!

what kind of beast are you talking about? be more specific you younger old fart!

 

LOL LOL LOL

 

You can't get away with that stuff here . You know better - the engineer is watching you.

[mvp 78]

I think the Sox BP is okay.

 

Relief pitcher's performance varies.

 

Nature of the beast.

Yup, want to see them rotate a few more AAA guys in and see if anyone lights it up.

[oldtimer]

Yup, want to see them rotate a few more AAA guys in and see if anyone lights it up.

 

Tonight our top relievers were shall we say enough to cause me nightmares. Just survived that one.

[Larry Cook]

Kimbrel was not sharp tonight. Rays got some realky hittable pitches, fortunately for Kimbrel most rays are not major league hitters.

[Spudboy]

Yup, want to see them rotate a few more AAA guys in and see if anyone lights it up.

 

That is part of how it works with BP arms.

[vegasbob]

Kimbrel , last night, is an example of the bullpen dilemma. He gets the save and preserves the win which , of course, is the point. But he uses 31 pitches to do so, gives up 2 hits and a walk getting there. OK, so no one can be perfect all the time, but now he can't pitch again until tomorrow. All the Sox relievers tend to be somewhat effective, but ineffcient. A relievers single biggest skill must be the ability to throw a strike/near strike and force the batter to act. Even the best will make outs 60 to 70% of the time.

[oldtimer]

Kimbrel , last night, is an example of the bullpen dilemma. He gets the save and preserves the win which , of course, is the point. But he uses 31 pitches to do so, gives up 2 hits and a walk getting there. OK, so no one can be perfect all the time, but now he can't pitch again until tomorrow. All the Sox relievers tend to be somewhat effective, but ineffcient. A relievers single biggest skill must be the ability to throw a strike/near strike and force the batter to act. Even the best will make outs 60 to 70% of the time.

 

Tonight Price did well and the BP was excellent with Barnes, Kelly and Kimbrel holding a decent hitting Rays team to 1 run over 9 innings. Our relievers didn't throw that many pitches so should be okay to go again tomorrow if necessary with the exception of Kimbrel who could use a rest. Lets hope we have a bigger lead tomorrow so others in the pen can be used.

We needed the pen to be good tonight and it was.

[harmony]

With the 80-day suspension of White Sox catcher Welington Castillo, the Red Sox could offer the out-of-options Blake Swihart and Brian Johnson for two veteran relievers: righty Joakim Soria and lefty Luis Avilan.

 

Soria earns $9 million* with a $1 million buyout of a $10 million team option for 2019. Avilan earns $2.45 million this year and remains under team control through next season.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=4&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

* the Kansas City sent $1 million to the White Sox in the trade of Soria in January

[Bellhorn04]

Barnes has a hip problem and is out indefinitely.

 

Starting to look like DD may have made a significant tactical error thinking the bullpen didn't need to be upgraded.

[jacksonianmarch]

DD did make a tactical error. Considering Kelly and Hembree as depth is the error. Hembree isn’t good. Kelly runs really strangely hot and cold. Most good relievers have good runs with a few mixed in blowups. Kelly has a big run followed by a sustained run of suck. That’s not great as a reliever. Barnes was having the run of his life before it came crashing down on him lately. Brasier is the only “reliable” guy out there and he was a minor leaguer in Japan last year, hardly a pedigree to pin your playoff hopes on. Thing is, DD has always made this error. He gets the flashy closer then tries to be cute with the pen. It’s burned him in every post season since he ran with Detroit. It will burn him again. The question is, will it burn him enough to knock you guys out?

[Kimmi]

Barnes has a hip problem and is out indefinitely.

 

Starting to look like DD may have made a significant tactical error thinking the bullpen didn't need to be upgraded.

 

I didn't think it was a dire need, but I would have preferred an 8th inning reliever over acquiring a 2B. Not that I don't like Kinsler, I just thought that our top priority should have been a pen arm.

 

That said, I still believe our pen will be fine. Having ERod, Wright, Price, and Sale all missing starts in August/September has forced Cora to use his pen in a way that has been dictated by necessity more than by his plan. It's hard to cover so many games with 4+ innings from the pen. Also, he is not managing with the urgency that he will be in the postseason.

[Kimmi]

DD did make a tactical error. Considering Kelly and Hembree as depth is the error. Hembree isn’t good. Kelly runs really strangely hot and cold. Most good relievers have good runs with a few mixed in blowups. Kelly has a big run followed by a sustained run of suck. That’s not great as a reliever. Barnes was having the run of his life before it came crashing down on him lately. Brasier is the only “reliable” guy out there and he was a minor leaguer in Japan last year, hardly a pedigree to pin your playoff hopes on. Thing is, DD has always made this error. He gets the flashy closer then tries to be cute with the pen. It’s burned him in every post season since he ran with Detroit. It will burn him again. The question is, will it burn him enough to knock you guys out?

 

Jacko, in the words of the cute little girl in the viral YouTube video, "You worry about yourself."

 

Your "shortening the game to 3 innings" pen seems to be having some issues of its own.

[moonslav59]

We have to hope the 2-3 starters who miss out on the playoff rotation give us what we need in the pen. It's what has happened in several recent playoff series for other teams.

 

One could view it like we have or about have added Sale, ERod and Wright. We can add Wright, Eovaldi, Johnson and Velazquez to full time pen duty and squeeze out those who are doing poorly leading up to the playoffs.

 

The "problem" may not be as bad as it looks. Besides, we are not the only playoff bound team with serious, recent pen issues.

[notin]

If Nathan Eovaldi goes to the pen, I wonder what his fastball will look like.

 

Throwing this out there for no reason, if both Eovaldi and Kelly pitch in relief this postseason, Eovaldi will have higher radar gun readings...

[FredLynn]

Jacko, in the words of the cute little girl in the viral YouTube video, "You worry about yourself."

 

Your "shortening the game to 3 innings" pen seems to be having some issues of its own.

 

Jacko is right about Kelly. He has sucked for a very long time. Since June 1 his ERA is nearly 6 (5.97) and his OPSa is nearly .800 (.797). He should not be on the playoff roster. He has worked himself out of a job IMO.

[moonslav59]

Jacko is right about Kelly. He has sucked for a very long time. Since June 1 his ERA is nearly 6 (5.97) and his OPSa is nearly .800 (.797). He should not be on the playoff roster. He has worked himself out of a job IMO.

 

Pretty amazing after such a nice run before this last one, but I'm leaning towards agreement. He still has time to turn it around, but the guy has sucked for too long to be trustworthy right now. Barnes is iffy. Hembree is trying to lose his slot as well, if he hasn't already. Pardon me, if I am not that high on Brasier.

 

We may be looking at a playoff relief set-up like this (assuming 7 man pen):

 

6th inning: Velazquez/Johnson (Wright/Eovaldi as long men)

 

7th inning: Wright/Eovaldi

 

8th inning: Eovaldi/Wright (as shortman), Brasier, Thornburg (Workman?)

 

9th inning: Kimbrel

 

 

 

[Kimmi]

We have to hope the 2-3 starters who miss out on the playoff rotation give us what we need in the pen. It's what has happened in several recent playoff series for other teams.

 

One could view it like we have or about have added Sale, ERod and Wright. We can add Wright, Eovaldi, Johnson and Velazquez to full time pen duty and squeeze out those who are doing poorly leading up to the playoffs.

 

The "problem" may not be as bad as it looks. Besides, we are not the only playoff bound team with serious, recent pen issues.

 

I trust Cora to figure it out. Come the playoffs, I think we will see a pen that looks a lot more effective.

[Kimmi]

Jacko is right about Kelly. He has sucked for a very long time. Since June 1 his ERA is nearly 6 (5.97) and his OPSa is nearly .800 (.797). He should not be on the playoff roster. He has worked himself out of a job IMO.

 

That's fine, but we have other options, especially once Sale gets back and we have all of our starters finally healthy.

[moonslav59]

I trust Cora to figure it out. Come the playoffs, I think we will see a pen that looks a lot more effective.

 

I'm hopeful, but it's not like Eovaldi, Wright, Johnson and Velazquez have been pitching well enough to instill much confidence they can improve things.

 

I think one or two will rise to the top and give us what we need. The good thing is, we have so many pitchers to choose from with only 3-4 needed.

 

After Kimbrel, we have...

 

Wright

Eovaldi

Johnson

Velazquez

Brasier

Barnes

Thornburg

Workman

Kelly

Hembree

Poyner

Scott

Cuevas

 

That's 13 pitchers for 3-4 key roles and 2-3 minor ones.

 

[bosoxmal]

Prediction: Bobby Poynter will prove to be the lefty we have lacked all uear in the bullpen. I have not checked his minor league numbers, but 1 run over 7 or 8 innings with a K per inning. looks good so far. I like his poise on the mound Edited September 10, 2018 by bosoxmal

[oldtimer]

I'm hopeful, but it's not like Eovaldi, Wright, Johnson and Velazquez have been pitching well enough to instill much confidence they can improve things.

 

I think one or two will rise to the top and give us what we need. The good thing is, we have so many pitchers to choose from with only 3-4 needed.

 

After Kimbrel, we have...

 

Wright

Eovaldi

Johnson

Velazquez

Brasier

Barnes

Thornburg

Workman

Kelly

Hembree

Poyner

Scott

Cuevas

 

That's 13 pitchers for 3-4 key roles and 2-3 minor ones.

 

 

Of those you mention, Johnson, Hembree, Scott are questionable at this point.

 

In addition, Velazquez and Cuevas are unlikely, and what of Barnes hip inflammation?

 

After Kimbrel, Sale, Price, Porcello and E-Rod we probably can only take 6 more.

 

My guess for the 6 are Wright, Eovaldi, Brasier, Barnes,Thornburg or Kelly and Poyner.

[moonslav59]

Of those you mention, Johnson, Hembree, Scott are questionable at this point.

 

In addition, Velazquez and Cuevas are unlikely, and what of Barnes hip inflammation?

 

After Kimbrel, Sale, Price, Porcello and E-Rod we probably can only take 6 more.

 

My guess for the 6 are Wright, Eovaldi, Brasier, Barnes,Thornburg or Kelly and Poyner.

 

That very well might be the ones. If these guys keep doing poorly, I may start agreeing with notin on the idea that with such a weak pen, maybe we should carry 8 RP;er not 7 as I have been suggesting for weeks... just so we can have a quicker hook, if needed.

 

Of the three you mentioned as questionable, I see Hembree with best chance.

 

I see Velazquez and Johnson as still having a chance. I agree that Cuevas and Scott are almost totally out of consideration, and Poyner might squeeze in. Barnes is a wild card with the hip.

 

I'm wondering if using pitchers who can got 2-4 innings might be a better choice, so as to lessen the need for 7th and 8th inning set-up guys- our weakest area. This might give a slight edge to Eovaldi, Wright, Pom, Velazquez & Johnson.

 

I'm wondering why Cora has not used Wright as the first guy in and leaving him in for 3-4 innings.

 

[oldtimer]

That very well might be the ones. If these guys keep doing poorly, I may start agreeing with notin on the idea that with such a weak pen, maybe we should carry 8 RP;er not 7 as I have been suggesting for weeks... just so we can have a quicker hook, if needed.

 

Of the three you mentioned as questionable, I see Hembree with best chance.

 

I see Velazquez and Johnson as still having a chance. I agree that Cuevas and Scott are almost totally out of consideration, and Poyner might squeeze in. Barnes is a wild card with the hip.

 

I'm wondering if using pitchers who can got 2-4 innings might be a better choice, so as to lessen the need for 7th and 8th inning set-up guys- our weakest area. This might give a slight edge to Eovaldi, Wright, Pom, Velazquez & Johnson.

 

I'm wondering why Cora has not used Wright as the first guy in and leaving him in for 3-4 innings.

 

 

Kelly really has a fast ball, a knuckle curve and a changeup. He has severe command issues at this time and is more questionable after last nights outing. Workman may not throw as hard but we need guys who can throw strikes. In my opinion, he has surpassed Kelly on the PO roster list.

[S5Dewey]

Kelly really has a fast ball, a knuckle curve and a changeup. He has severe command issues at this time and is more questionable after last nights outing. Workman may not throw as hard but we need guys who can throw strikes. In my opinion, he has surpassed Kelly on the PO roster list.

 

I'm afraid you're right. As I said in the "disappointments" thread, I had high hopes for Kelley this year. I saw him as being our 'closer' in the 8th, shortening the game to seven innings.

 

Right again, in the playoffs we need pitchers who can throw strikes. Very few things are more frustrating than seeing a reliever come in and walk people. I'd rather see them give up a hit than walk someone. At least if they're swinging the bat our defense might have a chance to turn that into an out.

 

Right now Workman>Kelley.

[moonslav59]

Right now Workman>Kelley.

 

Brasier> Kelly

Hembree> Kelly

Poyner > Kelly

Thornburg> Kelly

Wright> Kelly

Eovaldi> Kelly

Johnson> Kelly

Velazquez> Kelly

Injured Barnes> Kelly

Maybe even Cuevas over Kelly

 

With some of these guys, the differential is pretty small, so he still has a slim chance at turning it around and making the playoff roster.

 

Lucky we can pitch whoever we want for playoff auditions.

 

 

[mvp 78]

Kelly really has a fast ball, a knuckle curve and a changeup. He has severe command issues at this time and is more questionable after last nights outing. Workman may not throw as hard but we need guys who can throw strikes. In my opinion, he has surpassed Kelly on the PO roster list.

 

I want Joe to work out because he's a very affable guy, but it's just getting harder and harder watching him pitch.

[Bellhorn04]

That was Daniel Bard-esque last night. 4 batters faced, 1 walk and 2 plunks.

[Kimmi]

That was Daniel Bard-esque last night. 4 batters faced, 1 walk and 2 plunks.

 

Kudos to Workman for coming into that mess and getting out of it.

[notin]

That was Daniel Bard-esque last night. 4 batters faced, 1 walk and 2 plunks.

 

Kelly does remind me a bit too much of Daniel Bard. and I was no fan of Bard...

[sk7326]

That was Daniel Bard-esque last night. 4 batters faced, 1 walk and 2 plunks.

 

Joe Kelly manages to simultaneously throw the ball real hard while not actually having a very effective fastball.