A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[mvp 78]

The Dodgers did offer him a QO, but I admit that does not mean they wanted him back.

 

Did we give up draft picks to sign Hanley and Pablo?

[moonslav59]

Did we give up draft picks to sign Hanley and Pablo?

 

I don't think so. The rules were different then.

[harmony]

Did we give up draft picks to sign Hanley and Pablo?

According to this November 2014 report from MLB Trade Rumors regarding the Red Sox signings of Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval:

The Dodgers will earn a compensation pick between the first and second rounds of the 2015 draft as a result of the signing, as Ramirez turned down the team’s qualifying offer. Boston’s 2015 first-round pick is protected, so the Sox have surrendered both their second- and third-round picks in order to bring Sandoval and Ramirez aboard.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/red-sox-agree-to-terms-with-hanley-ramirez.html

 

The Red Sox drafted outfielder Andrew Benintendi with their protected 2015 first-round pick. However, the Sox still managed a third-round pick in catcher Austin Rei after skipping the second round:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?team_ID=BOS&year_ID=2015&draft_type=junreg&query_type=franch_year&from_type_jc=0&from_type_hs=0&from_type_4y=0&from_type_unk=0

[moonslav59]

According to this November 2014 report from MLB Trade Rumors regarding the Red Sox signings of Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/red-sox-agree-to-terms-with-hanley-ramirez.html

 

The Red Sox drafted outfielder Andrew Benintendi with their protected 2015 first-round pick. However, the Sox still managed a third-round pick in catcher Austin Rei after skipping the second round:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?team_ID=BOS&year_ID=2015&draft_type=junreg&query_type=franch_year&from_type_jc=0&from_type_hs=0&from_type_4y=0&from_type_unk=0

 

Thanks. I forgot about the 2nd & third rounders lost.

[OH FOY]

Come end of July, everybody here will be screaming we need Pitching. It always happens. Martinez is just not a fit this year.

[notin]

Come end of July, everybody here will be screaming we need Pitching. It always happens. Martinez is just not a fit this year.

 

Sign Tillman (bad year but AL East vet), and try to get Hellickson, Buchholz, Jesse Chavez, Trevor Cahill, Hector Santiago and /or Anibal Sanchez to minor league deals. Two or three of them should be sufficient

[Bellhorn04]

Come end of July, everybody here will be screaming we need Pitching. It always happens. Martinez is just not a fit this year.

 

Not really the way it was in 2017. Most were screaming about our underperforming offense and lack of power.

[moonslav59]

Come end of July, everybody here will be screaming we need Pitching. It always happens. Martinez is just not a fit this year.

 

Our biggest weakness last season was clean-up hitter. We don't really even have a decent 5 hitter (assuming some mix of Betts, Beni and Bogey bat 1-2-3).

 

JD is a fit, despite having a $22M DH on the roster already.

 

(We may see us sign JD and trade JBJ & Johnson for a solid 3-4 SP'er. That way HRam gets to play and we bolster our rotation.)

 

 

[notin]

We still don't have anyone I would call a cleanup hitter.

 

Our other weakness was signing Mitch Moreland because he was a defensive wizard, a tough competitor and always had his head in the game. The Sox had some elite defenders at first recently in Youkilis and Napoli, and Moreland was not their peer. Also I questioned how much his head was in the game at times, most notably in that triple play in Baltimore. Thankfully it was only a one year deal.

 

Unless Moreland becomes our biggest acquisition of this off-season. ...

[sk7326]

I don't think so. The rules were different then.

 

Not their first rounder - they had a bottom 10 record which exempted them.

[moonslav59]

We still don't have anyone I would call a cleanup hitter.

 

Our other weakness was signing Mitch Moreland because he was a defensive wizard, a tough competitor and always had his head in the game. The Sox had some elite defenders at first recently in Youkilis and Napoli, and Moreland was not their peer. Also I questioned how much his head was in the game at times, most notably in that triple play in Baltimore. Thankfully it was only a one year deal.

 

Unless Moreland becomes our biggest acquisition of this off-season. ...

 

Anyone who doesn't think our 4-5 slots were a serious weak link on last year's Sox team, wasn't paying attention.

 

4 slot: .745

 

5 slot: .667

 

Combined: 45 HRs and 164 RBIs

 

Some teams get close to that from 1 guy!

 

We placed 20th in clean-up HRs. We had the 7th worst clean-up OPS in MLB.

We placed 29th in 5th slot HRs (and RBIs). We had the worst 5 slot OPS in MLB.

 

If we sign JD AND can rely on Devers to improve on the 5 slot, we may be able to change our 4-5 slot weakness into a plus.

 

(I'm still flabbergasted over the Moreland signing. Two years on top of it all!)

[Larry Cook]

Not really the way it was in 2017. Most were screaming about our underperforming offense and lack of power.

 

They won 93 games with that under performing offense. And in my mind, it was not about the under performing offense as much as was talented youngsters stuck in a locker room with no leadership. This team still needs a leader. You can bring in Martinez, stanton or Harper, but if they are not a leader in the locker room the zombies will not improve!

 

Leadership is desperately needed and dave can’t seem to figure that out!

 

But to the original post. Yes, we need more pitching. Two of our starters are potential tommy John candidates. Another is coming off knee surgery and doubtful to be ready by opening day.

 

Then there is the injured knuckleballer that we are counting on to start the year in the rotation. This is madness!

 

Sadly I think it is too much to ask of dave to remove his head from his behind and be the GM we need.

[moonslav59]

Then there is the injured knuckleballer that we are counting on to start the year in the rotation. This is madness!

.

 

Well, last year we started the season with Wright in the rotation, 2 Tommy John candidates and Pom coming off an injury and a 4.59 ERA after joining the Sox.

 

How'd that work out for us?

 

While I'm always for adding to the rotation, especially from the top, our biggest weakness is still at the clean-up slot.

[Larry Cook]

Well, last year we started the season with Wright in the rotation, 2 Tommy John candidates and Pom coming off an injury and a 4.59 ERA after joining the Sox.

 

How'd that work out for us?

 

While I'm always for adding to the rotation, especially from the top, our biggest weakness is still at the clean-up slot.

 

Coming into the 2017 season, was price having elbow issues? I did not think do. Yes, he had a lot of innings on the arm, but people were calling him the guy with a rubber arm.

 

Sale, price and porcello (with a working sinker), hard to see how we could not win 100 games as a team. But then price got injured. But Pomeranz stepped up big time. However then porcello went into the tank. And to make matters worse, rodriguez’s knee gave way again. And we were left needing more pitching. In desperation, we had to turn to fister!!!!!

 

2018 is shaping up to be another year of not enough pitching and who is the next fister!

 

Back to the lineup: Even if you brought in the world’s best clean up hitter, this team won’t do squat unless he is a leader!

 

We desperately need someone to command the locker room. Someone to hold players accountable to the team. Until we get that personality, our young guys will not take it to the next level.

 

2018 year of the zombie part 2.

[a700hitter]

Coming into the 2017 season, was price having elbow issues? I did not think do. Yes, he had a lot of innings on the arm, but people were calling him the guy with a rubber arm.

 

Sale, price and porcello (with a working sinker), hard to see how we could not win 100 games as a team. But then price got injured. But Pomeranz stepped up big time. However then porcello went into the tank. And to make matters worse, rodriguez’s knee gave way again. And we were left needing more pitching. In desperation, we had to turn to fister!!!!!

 

2018 is shaping up to be another year of not enough pitching and who is the next fister!

 

Back to the lineup: Even if you brought in the world’s best clean up hitter, this team won’t do squat unless he is a leader!

 

We desperately need someone to command the locker room. Someone to hold players accountable to the team. Until we get that personality, our young guys will not take it to the next level.

 

2018 year of the zombie part 2.

Last year's crew was a lifeless bunch, and the smurfs need a leader. Betts is a really good player, but he is not an imposing player by any stretch. A centerpiece, leader type is needed with some TNT in his bat.

[oldtimer]

Here we are at the day before sprig training starts and we have really only one meaningful player returning in Moreland. We don't even have our best hitter back as Nunez gave us life when he came and in last year.

 

Pedey's return has been expected by the optimists to be sometime in May but it is more likely and prudent for him to round into playing shape by the All Star break.

 

I put the extemely slow FA market blame on a combination of Agents and Players placing unrealistic expectations on their value while owners and teams have been badly burned in recent years with FA's like Pablo, Hanley, Price and lots f others who were unable to produce (which is a risk factor with any FA). I have no idea where this is going, but the Sox have to make a decision soon and move on from the JD offer. Either he accepts the Sox offer or they move on. I see they are now talking to LoMo

 

Perhaps when the top FA's sign, the entire market will move. Boras has the biggest mouth and the biggest complainer but probably also has the most responsibility for what has happened in the FA market this year. Maybe the owners/teams will just bypass players he represents and the money bags will be depleted by the time his guys are ready to sign.

[moonslav59]

Coming into the 2017 season, was price having elbow issues? I did not think do. Yes, he had a lot of innings on the arm, but people were calling him the guy with a rubber arm.

 

Sale, price and porcello (with a working sinker), hard to see how we could not win 100 games as a team. But then price got injured. But Pomeranz stepped up big time. However then porcello went into the tank. And to make matters worse, rodriguez’s knee gave way again. And we were left needing more pitching. In desperation, we had to turn to fister!!!!!

 

2018 is shaping up to be another year of not enough pitching and who is the next fister!

 

Back to the lineup: Even if you brought in the world’s best clean up hitter, this team won’t do squat unless he is a leader!

 

We desperately need someone to command the locker room. Someone to hold players accountable to the team. Until we get that personality, our young guys will not take it to the next level.

 

2018 year of the zombie part 2.

 

1) Price's arm has always been an big concern.

2) Pom's arm is not as much of a concern as it was last February.

3) I have never said we have great leadership. Getting a pitcher or clean-up hitter with leadership qualities would be helpful. If I had to choose one, I'd go with the clean-up hitter.

 

I'd like to do both, and I'm almost always for adding a top starter, but our line-up will not improve enough by itself. Had we at least added Morrison, instead of Moreland, we'd be better off.

[moonslav59]

Last year's crew was a lifeless bunch, and the smurfs need a leader. Betts is a really good player, but he is not an imposing player by any stretch. A centerpiece, leader type is needed with some TNT in his bat.

 

I caught a lot of grief for saying last year's team lacked "fire and desire". Now, it seems like many are saying the same thing using different words.

 

I'm hopeful with Cora leading the clubhouse and dugout much better than JF did.

 

Maybe a young player will begin to take some steps. Clearly, Pedey is not going to be that guy. HRam? Nope. Moreland or a pitcher who spends the game in the pen? I doubt it. Devers? Too young and focused on improving himself. Vaz? Meh.

 

It's going to have to come from Cora and maybe Bogey, Betts or JBJ.

 

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox were the most boring 93 win team I’ve seen.

[mvp 78]

The sox were the most boring 93 win team I’ve seen.

 

Good thing you root for someone else.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Red Sox fans really have gotten jaded by success. The team wins 93 games and the division and people talk about them like they were a disgrace. It's kind of f***ed-up.

[mvp 78]

I think Red Sox fans really have gotten jaded by success. The team wins 93 games and the division and people talk about them like they were a disgrace. It's kind of f***ed-up.

 

“They’re not likable!”

 

Don’t remember people saying this when AJ Pierzinski(sp?) was on the club.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think Red Sox fans really have gotten jaded by success. The team wins 93 games and the division and people talk about them like they were a disgrace. It's kind of f***ed-up.

 

Jaded by success? They finished last 3 of 4 years before going on to win the ALE twice. I don't think it's jaded by success. I think it was seeing a team that didn't look like a title contender, even though they were

[cp176]

It's not me - it wasn't me - our illustrious on the field leader when looking out at Machado says sort of.

JBJ standing solidly with bad boy Price when he verbally beat Eck down.

 

They were not likable. They have had an off-season to grow up. We'll see how it goes.

[Bellhorn04]

Jaded by success? They finished last 3 of 4 years before going on to win the ALE twice. I don't think it's jaded by success. I think it was seeing a team that didn't look like a title contender, even though they were

 

Yes, we finished last 3 out of 4 but we won it all the other year. Then we won the division in 2016 and 2017.

 

Since 2003 this team has been more or less continuously successful.

 

When you get knocked out in the first round it's easy to say we 'didn't look like a contender'. I tend to subscribe to the 'playoffs are a crapshoot' theory myself.

[jacksonianmarch]

I’m not as big a “crapshoot” believer. Yes, upsets happen, but for the most part, the better teams win. This isn’t the NBA where the better teams always win. But it’s not close to the NHL where it really is a crapshoot

[moonslav59]

I’m not as big a “crapshoot” believer. Yes, upsets happen, but for the most part, the better teams win. This isn’t the NBA where the better teams always win. But it’s not close to the NHL where it really is a crapshoot

 

Last year saw 2 of the top 3 record teams make the series, and the Cubs & Guardians were two of the best in 2016, but before that, one could argue "crap shoot" pretty strongly.

 

While the Royals had the best AL record in 2015, nobody felt they'd win. Their rotation was one of the weakest ever to win a WS, and they played in a weak division. The Mets were total crap shoot. The two wildcard teams had 7-8 more wins than the Mets. In 2014, two wild card teams made it to the WS.

 

The Sox won in 2013 with 3 last places sandwiched around it. In 2012, the Giants won despite having the worst record of the 3 NL division winners. They beat a Tigers team that had a worse record than a team that missed the wild card! (DET 88 wins & TBR 90). STL won the WS as a wild card in 2011, and on and on.

 

.

[Kimmi]

1) Price's arm has always been an big concern.

 

Since when? Price was supposed to be as close to a sure thing as you can have with a starting pitcher in his 30s.

[Kimmi]

I caught a lot of grief for saying last year's team lacked "fire and desire". Now, it seems like many are saying the same thing using different words.

 

I'm hopeful with Cora leading the clubhouse and dugout much better than JF did.

 

Maybe a young player will begin to take some steps. Clearly, Pedey is not going to be that guy. HRam? Nope. Moreland or a pitcher who spends the game in the pen? I doubt it. Devers? Too young and focused on improving himself. Vaz? Meh.

 

It's going to have to come from Cora and maybe Bogey, Betts or JBJ.

 

 

I'm not getting all the 'lack of fire' and 'lack of leadership' criticism.

 

IMO, we had some youngsters that often tried to do too much. That's about it.

[Kimmi]

The sox were the most boring 93 win team I’ve seen.

 

Stop Jacko. Just stop.