2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Hitch]

I don't think we know enough to pin it on any one person or factor.

 

That never stops people, however.

[FredLynn]

In the bullpen, his deficiencies would not have been as exposed. He was not capable of going through a lineup a second time. His career probably would have fallen apart, but it might have taken longer.

 

You can say that ("his career would have fallen apart) about most pitchers in the game. Very few pitchers maintain their level of excellence. In 2009-2011 he was very very dominant, especially in 2010. I remember watching his 95+ fastball combined with a 90 mph slider, both with very good location when he was on. All you really n need is two pitches as a RP; as a starter you need at least 3 most of the time. Bard never developed that third reliable pitch-AND he lost the ability to locate. I think his lack of success as a SP played with his head and permanently screwed him up: he lost confidence. Had he stayed in the pen, where he belonged until he had that third pitch, I think he would have had a very good career as a RP.

[Bellhorn04]

The thing is, what happened to Bard-'Steve Blass syndrome' has only happened to a handful of pitchers in history. This was an extremely rare case.

[Spudboy]

I never understood what happened there. Bard was a respectable reliever but then insisted that he wanted to be a starter and screwed up his career. I'm not sure whether to blame it on poor management or Bard's stubbornness.

 

For sure. I can't be certain of any of this as it is just what I have read. I was not there.

 

But a player wanting to change his role is not enough to make it happen. From what Abraham wrote, Benny Boy was all aboard with the idea.

 

That is why I say it was bad management. Of course I can not be certain. Just my opinion.

[Spudboy]

I read plenty of stories that conflicted with the idea that Ben wanted him to start.

 

I believe Abraham. He has pretty good cred when it comes to this stuff.

[a700hitter]

It has been reported that the Dodgers offered the Red Sox Puig for Bradley and the Red Sox declined. IMO, that is a close call.

[S5Dewey]

It has been reported that the Dodgers offered the Red Sox Puig for Bradley and the Red Sox declined. IMO, that is a close call.

 

Wow. I'm a huge JBJ fan but I'd have to think about that.

 

Slide Beni to CF, put Puig in RF, and we've given up a little defense but gained the power we need.

[notin]

It has been reported that the Dodgers offered the Red Sox Puig for Bradley and the Red Sox declined. IMO, that is a close call.

 

 

3 years of Bradley for one year of Puig isn't that close for me...

[harmony]

It has been reported that the Dodgers offered the Red Sox Puig for Bradley and the Red Sox declined. IMO, that is a close call.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/01/05/dodgers-floated-idea-jackie-bradley-yasel-puig-trade/mS2zrExiNvaDP4Ke2zIPII/story.html?p1=Team_LeadArticle

[S5Dewey]

3 years of Bradley for one year of Puig isn't that close for me...

 

Aha! I hadn't looked at the time. I knew that sounded too good to be true. :-)

 

Edit; According to BR Puig isn't a FA until 2020. 2 years.

Edited January 5, 2018 by S5Dewey

[a700hitter]

3 years of Bradley for one year of Puig isn't that close for me...

I was just basing my opinion based on skills.

[notin]

I believe Abraham. He has pretty good cred when it comes to this stuff.

 

He is good.

 

But I think economics was a big factor. The most expensive player the Sox brought on that off-season was Cody Ross.

 

Bard was an awful starter in A ball. I think it was more of a "best chance" of the guys they had than anything about Bard. ..

[Spudboy]

Puig is a freak talent but he acts like a 13 year old boy.

 

I would love to have that talent but I suspect his act would wear thin in Boston very quickly.

 

Pass.

[S5Dewey]

Puig is a freak talent but he acts like a 13 year old boy.

 

I would love to have that talent but I suspect his act would wear thin in Boston very quickly.

 

Pass.

 

And yet people are salivating over Machado???

[Jack Flap]

3 years of Bradley for one year of Puig isn't that close for me...

 

Puig has two years of control remaining, I believe. It's an interesting hypothetical, but I tend to agree with keeping Bradley. Puig might offer more upside, but certainly comes with issues of his own, and his last two seasons before 2017 weren't very good...I suspect we could get better offers if we decided to actively shop JBJ.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Jack Flap

[notin]

And yet people are salivating over Machado???

 

Machado creates issues with other teams. Puig creates issues with his own manager...

[bkzwhitestrican]

Besides the Marlins fire sale last month, this has been the most boring offseason that I can remember.

[Kimmi]

Yup. Five years: no more. And even that is a stretch for Martinez, who is really going to end up as a DH. I would even prefer four years, though that is probably unlikely to get him. Longer than that (5) financially hobbles the franchise for many years to come. I can put up with one year of mediocrity as long as we have access to next year's FA class.

 

I completely agree about JD.

 

As far as next year's FA class goes, I'm not condoning that we break the bank for any of those guys either.

[Bellhorn04]

Besides the Marlins fire sale last month, this has been the most boring offseason that I can remember.

 

It might change soon, but so far it's been the all-time snoozefest.

[Kimmi]

I hold Ben accountable for his good and bad moves. But that off-season I remember him not being allowed to spend to the point where Marco Scutaro had be dealt in a salary dump. No way we could bring on a starting pitcher. ..

 

Ben's hands were tied in terms of handing out big contracts to aging pitchers.

 

Not that he would have wanted to hand one out anyway, and rightly so.

[Bellhorn04]

I completely agree about JD.

 

As far as next year's FA class goes, I'm not condoning that we break the bank for any of those guys either.

 

What? I'm shocked.

[Bellhorn04]

Ben's hands were tied in terms of handing out big contracts to aging pitchers.

 

Not that he would have wanted to hand one out anyway, and rightly so.

 

Not even Scherzer?

[illinoisredsox]

Wow. I'm a huge JBJ fan but I'd have to think about that.

 

Slide Beni to CF, put Puig in RF, and we've given up a little defense but gained the power we need.

 

Did you mean put Puig in LF? Otherwise, what are you doing with Mookie?

[Kimmi]

Not even Scherzer?

 

No. He's done well so far, but pitchers over 30 are too risky.

 

Price was about as sure a thing as one could get for pitchers over 30, and he hasn't exactly panned out for us.

[Bellhorn04]

No. He's done well so far, but pitchers over 30 are too risky.

 

Even in hindsight you wouldn't sign Scherzer?

 

The actual cost of his contract in present dollars was around $195 million, I think.

 

FanGraphs says he's already earned $144 million of that.

[notin]

Did you mean put Puig in LF? Otherwise, what are you doing with Mookie?

 

If the Sox made that deal, Betts likely goes to CF and Puig, with his outstanding arm goes to RF...

[notin]

It might change soon, but so far it's been the all-time snoozefest.

 

It is going to have to change soon. Pitchers and catchers report in six weeks. ..

[cp176]

Puig is a freak talent but he acts like a 13 year old boy.

 

I would love to have that talent but I suspect his act would wear thin in Boston very quickly.

 

Pass.

 

Regardless of Puig's abundant talent, he is a boob. We are in the process of eliminating the boobs. No to Puig (kind of looks like that was said by DD some time ago), yes to JD Martinez

Edited January 5, 2018 by cp176

[Jack Flap]

I can just imagine Puig under the Boston media microscope...sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[cp176]

And yet people are salivating over Machado???

 

What is the deal with you and Machado SS? Is this just about him sliding in to Pedroia or do you have something else? I haven't seen anything telling me that he is a bad teammate. I don't think that there is much chance of his coming to boston but no one yet has said anything that convinces me that if it happened even just for year it would be a bad thing. I would prefer his bat and particularly his defense at ss as opposed to Bogaerts. Now if it continues to be Bogaerts, I am actually ok with that as well. I really would never like to see Puig coming to Boston.