2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Bellhorn04]

You are above 0??? You Canadians get all the breaks !!! -10 here.

 

Wow, that is wicked cold.

[Kimmi]

I will never believe that Peter Angelos will permit Manny Machado to play for the Boston Red Sox this year. That being said, I don't think the Yankees as currently constructed are any better than the Boston Red Sox. Both project to be 90+ win teams. The rest of the ALE is substantially weaker.

 

Arguably the Bombers may be better constructed once the playoffs begin but given the age and the past injury record of some their key players I just can't see them having a cake walk to the ALE title.

 

Don't be blinded by the Yankees signing of Stanton. They gave up Castro to get him. While Stanton may be a far better player than Castro, the latter's spark, defense and 16 home runs will be missed in the infield by the Bombers. As currently constructed the Yankees have defensive issues. In my view they need Machado probably as much as Boston, but neither will get him.

 

I agree. The Yankees are probably the favorites, but not by as much as many people think. And that's before the Sox have made any big moves. I am certainly not ready to hand them the division crown.

[Kimmi]

Well, if Theo thought it was OK to sign Lester for 6 years it can't be the worst idea in the world *sometimes* to risk it...

 

I understand that. I just don't think it's a good habit to get into. As much as I would have loved keeping Lester, I am glad that the Sox did not outbid the Cubs in order to keep him.

[Bellhorn04]

I understand that. I just don't think it's a good habit to get into. As much as I would have loved keeping Lester, I am glad that the Sox did not outbid the Cubs in order to keep him.

 

I'll bet you're not glad we didn't sign him to an extension of say 6/120 though.

[Kimmi]

Maybe some would say that 5 years is a risk. I would for sure. How much money does someone need and how long does someone expect to play? At the end of 5 years JD would be rich beyond any of our beliefs and if he still can play if he wants to and can make the decision at that time. Cap it at 5 years.

 

To me, anything over 4 years gets into that 'too risky' category, especially for aging players. That's not to say it should never be done. And I realize that signing big contracts is sometimes a necessary evil. I was and still am perfectly happy with the extension that the Sox gave to Pedroia. But even with that, we are starting to feel the downside of that contract.

 

BTW, Dombrowski recently stated that there are no deadlines set for the offer to JD.

[Kimmi]

I'm having a little back and forth with Kimmi about the wisdom of signing 30 year old pitchers to 6 or 7 year deals.

 

As for JDM, yes, hopefully we'll sign him for 5 years. Obviously he and Boras are in the waiting game now and hoping someone cracks and goes to 6 years.

 

If we come out of this offseason without some sort of major acquisition, whether it be a hitter or a pitcher, it'll be disappointing.

 

I agree that it will be disappointing if we don't add a major player this offseason. However, would you rather grossly overpay for that player, in other words, sign him at any cost, or go status quo?

 

I would rather go status quo.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree that it will be disappointing if we don't add a major player this offseason. However, would you rather grossly overpay for that player, in other words, sign him at any cost, or go status quo?

 

I would rather go status quo.

 

If we go status quo and narrowly miss the playoffs that would be really bad, especially where it puts us one big fat year closer to the bad thing.

[Kimmi]

I'll bet you're not glad we didn't sign him to an extension of say 6/120 though.

 

I would have done that. I really wanted Lester back. I think at the time, I was pretty adamant about 5 years, but then conceded to go ahead and give him the 6th year if that's what it would take.

[a700hitter]

If we go status quo and narrowly miss the playoffs that would be really bad, especially where it puts us one big fat year closer to the bad thing.

I agree. Status quo is irrational when we are facing an impending cliff. If you have a window, you do your best to win during the window. JD would only cost money.

[cp176]

If we go status quo and narrowly miss the playoffs that would be really bad, especially where it puts us one big fat year closer to the bad thing.

 

I'm not trying to horn in on your discussion but doesn't it kind of depend on what your personal feelings might be about the team moving forward? If you truly think that they are a 93+ win team as presently constructed then sure it would seem in my opinion to be foolish to add on any contract that might seem restrictive to us later on. I don't think that we are. Thus I think that we need to add a run producing bat to our lineup that will allow us to make the playoffs and possibly advance - Maybe even two good bats!

[cp176]

I agree. Status quo is irrational when we are facing an impending cliff. If you have a window, you do your best to win during the window. JD would only cost money.

 

 

Moon is going to be loving some a700 for mentioning that c____f word. lol

[Kimmi]

If we go status quo and narrowly miss the playoffs that would be really bad, especially where it puts us one big fat year closer to the bad thing.

 

LOL You are really trying to get Moon and me in trouble, aren't you?

 

Even though I believe the Sox, as currently constructed, will contend for the division (and certainly a wild card spot) I do not really think it's a good idea to go status quo, although I have often said that I'd go status quo on the offense and get a #2 starter instead. But if given a choice between giving JD the 7 yr/ $210 mil that Boras is asking for or going status quo, I'd go status quo. I'd even go status quo over giving JD a 6 year deal.

 

All that said, I really think it's a moot point. Like you, I am confident that Dombrowski is going to make a major acquisition one way or another. I'm pretty sure it will be JD.

[Kimmi]

I agree. Status quo is irrational when we are facing an impending cliff. If you have a window, you do your best to win during the window. JD would only cost money.

 

No, what was irrational was creating that window and the subsequent cliff to begin with.

[a700hitter]

Moon is going to be loving some a700 for mentioning that c____f word. lol

LOL! And cliff believers would not be acting rationally if they would want to go with the status quo in 2018. I won’t put words in Moon’s mouth, but I think he is opposed to going with the status quo strategy.

[Kimmi]

I'm not trying to horn in on your discussion but doesn't it kind of depend on what your personal feelings might be about the team moving forward? If you truly think that they are a 93+ win team as presently constructed then sure it would seem in my opinion to be foolish to add on any contract that might seem restrictive to us later on. I don't think that we are. Thus I think that we need to add a run producing bat to our lineup that will allow us to make the playoffs and possibly advance - Maybe even two good bats!

 

And I really do believe that we are a contending team, as is. Of course, that largely depends on the health of our starting rotation. But I am not really concerned about our offense.

[Kimmi]

I agree. Status quo is irrational when we are facing an impending cliff. If you have a window, you do your best to win during the window. JD would only cost money.

 

It's not a choice between going status quo or not going status quo. It's a choice between going status quo with an already very good team versus making a mistake with another bad contract.

[OH FOY]

Not only that, but you'll be paying so much for the DH role it would be ridiculous. Then if he is signed and you want to move JBJ, every team will know that, and you wont get the return. Edited January 6, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

Not only that, but you'll be paying so much for the DH role it would be ridiculous.

 

Fair point, although by today's standards if you get a DH who can put up 4 WAR each year he's earning his 25 mill.

 

It certainly highlights what a fantastic bargain Mr. Ortiz was.

[OH FOY]

You got to add Hanley, at least you have to think that Hanley wont be playing 1st, much of the time with Moreland. A tough RHP, you have a DH sitting the bench at 22 million, the other at 25 million.

Just see if Hanley's surgery worked and stay patient.

Edited January 6, 2018 by OH FOY!

[a700hitter]

It's not a choice between going status quo or not going status quo. It's a choice between going status quo with an already very good team versus making a mistake with another bad contract.

Status quo in a window period is not a rational approach, even if it means a bad contract.

[Bellhorn04]

You got to add Hanley, at least you have to think that Hanley wont be playing 1st, much of the time with Moreland. A tough RHP, you have a DH sitting the bench at 22 million, the other at 25 million.

Just see if Hanley's surgery worked and stay patient.

 

Patience can be a virtue, but what big bat is going to be available once all the FA's are signed and the season starts? The supply is limited.

[OH FOY]

What if Hanley's shoulder surgery is the difference. You got him next year, at a decent price, and your in the ballpark for say Machado, or Donaldson. Forget JD.

[OH FOY]

I would much rather sign Nunez then JD. Versatility is the secret, to good FA's.

[Bellhorn04]

I would much rather sign Nunez then JD. Versatility is the secret, to good FA's.

 

Nunez isn't really versatile though. The only thing he does well is hit the ball. Not that I wouldn't mind having him back if the price is right.

[baseball jones]

Patience can be a virtue, but what big bat is going to be available once all the FA's are signed and the season starts? The supply is limited.

 

same is true for pitching though,last year we had major problems there and this year our triple a guys wont look decent against the yankees lineup

[moonslav59]

LOL! And cliff believers would not be acting rationally if they would want to go with the status quo in 2018. I won’t put words in Moon’s mouth, but I think he is opposed to going with the status quo strategy.

 

It seems like you finally have my position correct.

 

I was against trading away so much of the farm, but I was fine with trading some of it. I loved deals like Chris Sale, but not 4 prospects for a RP'er making close to top dollar (at the time).

 

I hate "playing it half way", so now that we have gone for broke, I am NOT for keeping the status quo. I want us to win a ring in the next three years, in order to justify trading away so much of the farm. Bringing us to the edge and then stopping makes less sense than tanking it for a few year (like the Astros did).

 

As much as I know we may regret signing JD, I want us to acquire a player of his hitting skill set. With no QO or need to trade more of the farm away, JD looks like the best option right now.

[moonslav59]

Status quo in a window period is not a rational approach, even if it means a bad contract.

 

Yes.

 

It would have taken me three paragraphs to say this!

 

[moonslav59]

Nunez isn't really versatile though. The only thing he does well is hit the ball. Not that I wouldn't mind having him back if the price is right.

 

Yes, Nunez is like Holt with an OPS 75-100 points higher.

 

A Jack-of-no-trades who carries a big stick.

[a700hitter]

Yes.

 

It would have taken me three paragraphs to say this!

 

Now that we are agreed upon with regard to strategy, we need to get DD to implement it. LOL!

[moonslav59]

Now that we are agreed upon with regard to strategy, we need to get DD to implement it. LOL!

 

I am very near certain, DD is not thinking status quo, despite the Moreland re-signing.