Should DD be fired?

[moonslav59]

He gets a pass because Farrell was not his guy to lead the team he put together. He now gets a chance to pick his manager and add the pieces to the mix that will get the Sox past the first round. The Spankees are back so the competition in the AL East just got tougher.

 

He deserves at least 5 years like Ben got...ooops, well, almost.

[cp176]

He deserves at least 5 years like Ben got...ooops, well, almost.

 

How much of that time when Ben was here was he really in charge. We have been informed by a few that all of the bad deals that were made when Ben was "in charge", had to have been ones either made or suggested by LL. lol

[moonslav59]

How much of that time when Ben was here was he really in charge. We have been informed by a few that all of the bad deals that were made when Ben was "in charge", had to have been ones either made or suggested by LL. lol

 

I've always held the Gm to be the ultimate one to blame of give credit within the framework of the budget given to him.

 

I will say, DD has had the advantage of not having Larry to "go through."

[cp176]

I've always held the Gm to be the ultimate one to blame of give credit within the framework of the budget given to him.

 

I will say, DD has had the advantage of not having Larry to "go through."

 

Might not be all about Larry either. Maybe Ben just wasn't very good regardless of who he worked for. Who on here really knows?

[cp176]

I've always held the Gm to be the ultimate one to blame of give credit within the framework of the budget given to him.

 

I will say, DD has had the advantage of not having Larry to "go through."

 

 

I did forget to add also that having seen DD now in action, I doubt seriously that he would have much of an issue "going through" anyone. People can fault him all they want to for what he has done to date but it looks to me as though no one is going to control him. He makes decisions.

[moonslav59]

I did forget to add also that having seen DD now in action, I doubt seriously that he would have much of an issue "going through" anyone. People can fault him all they want to for what he has done to date but it looks to me as though no one is going to control him. He makes decisions.

 

I doubt DD would have taken the job, if Larry was to remain as his "overseer."

[cp176]

I doubt DD would have taken the job, if Larry was to remain as his "overseer."

 

I'm pretty sure that he would not have been offered the job if Larry had still been around. They had the perfect person in Ben. Someone he probably felt he could control I guess. Big difference when it comes to Ben and DD.

[moonslav59]

I'm pretty sure that he would not have been offered the job if Larry had still been around. They had the perfect person in Ben. Someone he probably felt he could control I guess. Big difference when it comes to Ben and DD.

 

Yes, that was my point.

[cp176]

Yes, that was my point.

 

For the record and as if anyone really cares, i'm really not knocking or criticizing Ben Cherington here. Regardless of how all this ultimately plays out though, I do feel better about the GM when i feel as though he is charge . DD appears to be in charge as he should be. No one is apt to be second guessing who is making the calls. We will like them or we won't.

[notin]

I doubt DD would have taken the job, if Larry was to remain as his "overseer."

 

Dombrowski was hired to replace Larry, not Cherington.

[Northern Star]

He deserves at least 5 years like Ben got...ooops, well, almost.

 

Giving DD five years makes me anxious for the state of the farm.

[moonslav59]

For the record and as if anyone really cares, i'm really not knocking or criticizing Ben Cherington here. Regardless of how all this ultimately plays out though, I do feel better about the GM when i feel as though he is charge . DD appears to be in charge as he should be. No one is apt to be second guessing who is making the calls. We will like them or we won't.

 

Good points.

 

I'm not going to go on a Ben rant. I've made my position known too often already.

 

DD has done a good job quickly building the team up to being very close to a top contender. There's not much left on the farm to trade for the next big piece we need. We can't easily trade a starter without opening a new high need area as we have no premier bench players that can step up.

 

As much as I have railed against large and long FA contracts, and how they almost all fail, I don't really see any other way. I'm thinking we may need to spend close to $40M and maybe make a trade as well to truly become a top 3 or 4 contender.

 

Even being a top 4 contender guarantees nothing- just ask the Guardians.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Giving DD five years makes me anxious for the state of the farm.

 

I share your concerns on our extended future due to the near total emptying of our farm's best prospects.

 

We still have one of the youngest rosters in my memory, and even though many will become free agents too soon for our own good.

 

I'm one who believes in "the cliff", but I will say, I liked our last draft and international FA signings. We have some nice young talent now, but most are too far away to help within "the window" or bring much via trades. I suppose we could hope Travis, Chavis, Marco Hernandez or someone else gives us an unexpected jolt, but we cannot make our plans based on that.

 

DD has his work cut out for him.

[Larry Cook]

I thought no we all know how I feel about desperate dave, he is a turd in the punch bowl.

 

So let's talk about his options for our depleted farm system.

 

Our major league club is good enough to be among the best in baseball, but lacks the depth and is handcuffed by bananas like pedroia (that are eternally injured) to win it all.

 

Bottom line we are drafting 24 and later for the next couple of years. That means a lot of future major league relievers (houck for example) and maybe one steal per year (scriff for example this year)

 

So that brings us to the international market. At least desperate dave was smart enough to trade for international signing dollars.

If we use it to sign ohtani, that is a major score, if not, desperate dave has to hit on some major international signings. (Flores for example)

 

The last way to improve the farm system is a major sell off in a couple of years by desperate dave's replacement.

Because admit it or not, desperate dave is really Nero is disguise. The match has already been lit. And Red Sox nation is Rome!

[Spudboy]

I thought no we all know how I feel about desperate dave, he is a turd in the punch bowl.

 

So let's talk about his options for our depleted farm system.

 

Our major league club is good enough to be among the best in baseball, but lacks the depth and is handcuffed by bananas like pedroia (that are eternally injured) to win it all.

 

Bottom line we are drafting 24 and later for the next couple of years. That means a lot of future major league relievers (houck for example) and maybe one steal per year (scriff for example this year)

 

So that brings us to the international market. At least desperate dave was smart enough to trade for international signing dollars.

If we use it to sign ohtani, that is a major score, if not, desperate dave has to hit on some major international signings. (Flores for example)

 

The last way to improve the farm system is a major sell off in a couple of years by desperate dave's replacement.

Because admit it or not, desperate dave is really Nero is disguise. The match has already been lit. And Red Sox nation is Rome!

 

No saying agree I agree with this entire post but it sure was entertaining.

[moonslav59]

Our farm is certainly much weaker than when DD took over the reigns. Despite the low draft picks and restricted international signing abilities, I was rather impressed by the players we picked up this year. I still think we will hit a cliff in 2-3 years, but I like some of our young prospects...most are far away from the bigs.

 

Age Prospect

16 Daniel Flores & Danny Diaz

18 Bryan Mata

19 Jay Groome, Cole Brannen, Alex Scherff & Roniel Raudes

21 Tanner Houck, Josh Ockimey & CJ Chatham

22 Michael Chavis & Bobby Dalbec

 

Years of control for these young players:

5+ years Devers (20)

5 years: Beni (22)

3-4 yrs: ERod (24)

3 years: Betts (24)

2 years: Bogey (24)

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

I thought no we all know how I feel about desperate dave, he is a turd in the punch bowl.

 

So let's talk about his options for our depleted farm system.

 

Our major league club is good enough to be among the best in baseball, but lacks the depth and is handcuffed by bananas like pedroia (that are eternally injured) to win it all.

 

Bottom line we are drafting 24 and later for the next couple of years. That means a lot of future major league relievers (houck for example) and maybe one steal per year (scriff for example this year)

 

So that brings us to the international market. At least desperate dave was smart enough to trade for international signing dollars.

If we use it to sign ohtani, that is a major score, if not, desperate dave has to hit on some major international signings. (Flores for example)

 

The last way to improve the farm system is a major sell off in a couple of years by desperate dave's replacement.

Because admit it or not, desperate dave is really Nero is disguise. The match has already been lit. And Red Sox nation is Rome!

 

I'm guessing you were a big fan of basement benny.

[Bellhorn04]

basement benny bequeathed primo prospects, pitiful pitchers, crippling contracts.

[moonslav59]

Rings with Sox:

 

Theo: 2/9 (.222)

 

Ben: 1/4 (.250)

 

DD: 0/2 (.000)

 

These numbers aren't everything. I get that.

 

Playoff Appearances:

 

Theo 6/9 (.667)

 

Ben: 1/4 (.250)

 

DD: 2/2 (1.000)

 

This has great meaning, too.

 

Also, what was the state of the team and farm when the GM took over, and what was the state when they left?

 

None of these GM inherited a horrible team AND farm. Some had more of one than the other. This is a bit more subjective when judging.

 

[Kimmi]

It's interesting that Cashman built the current Yankees team by taking a page out of Ben's and Theo's book. Now that Cash is out under the reigns of Old George, he can build the franchise the way he wants to. Call Ben and Theo puppets all you want, but they knew how to build a team. Had they been given the autonomy that they should have had, we would have seen true genius at work here, like we saw once Theo went to the Cubs.

 

Yes, I blame Larry for most of those large free agent contracts that didn't work out. Why? Because they clearly go against the way Ben and Theo operate.

[moonslav59]

It's interesting that Cashman built the current Yankees team by taking a page out of Ben's and Theo's book. Now that Cash is out under the reigns of Old George, he can build the franchise the way he wants to. Call Ben and Theo puppets all you want, but they knew how to build a team. Had they been given the autonomy that they should have had, we would have seen true genius at work here, like we saw once Theo went to the Cubs.

 

Yes, I blame Larry for most of those large free agent contracts that didn't work out. Why? Because they clearly go against the way Ben and Theo operate.

 

Theo did admit, "We made mistakes with free agency", so I think he was on board with Offerman, Manny, Lugo, CC, Lackey and the AGon trade and extension.

[Bellhorn04]

It's interesting that Cashman built the current Yankees team by taking a page out of Ben's and Theo's book. Now that Cash is out under the reigns of Old George, he can build the franchise the way he wants to. Call Ben and Theo puppets all you want, but they knew how to build a team. Had they been given the autonomy that they should have had, we would have seen true genius at work here, like we saw once Theo went to the Cubs.

 

Yes, I blame Larry for most of those large free agent contracts that didn't work out. Why? Because they clearly go against the way Ben and Theo operate.

 

I certainly agree about Theo, but I'm not sure there's enough evidence to say exactly how Ben operates. If Larry was making so many moves, then Ben was kind of a puppet. And it's important to note that Ben has not had any other experience as a GM to evaluate him on.

[moonslav59]

I certainly agree about Theo, but I'm not sure there's enough evidence to say exactly how Ben operates. If Larry was making so many moves, then Ben was kind of a puppet. And it's important to note that Ben has not had any other experience as a GM to evaluate him on.

 

Every move Theo made went through Ben first. (Just kidding)

 

By the way, he was Co-GM when Theo went AWOL. Brief experience.

 

He was also a big part of our scouting for many years before and during Theo's tenure.

[a700hitter]

I certainly agree about Theo, but I'm not sure there's enough evidence to say exactly how Ben operates. If Larry was making so many moves, then Ben was kind of a puppet. And it's important to note that Ben has not had any other experience as a GM to evaluate him on.

There is plenty of evidence that Ben is quite the Barista. There is no arguing against that. As a GM, well... he hasn't had a GM job since 2015 and he was only a GM for 4 years.

[notin]

Theo did admit, "We made mistakes with free agency", so I think he was on board with Offerman, Manny, Lugo, CC, Lackey and the AGon trade and extension.

 

Offerman was a Dan Duquette signing. Remember his surprising press conference? "Jose Offerman is one of the best offensive players in the game."

 

Many vilified him for that quote, including yours truly. But it did turn out to be right...

[notin]

There is plenty of evidence that Ben is quite the Barista. There is no arguing against that. As a GM, well... he hasn't had a GM job since 2015 and he was only a GM for 4 years.

 

A stretch that included onr world series title...

[Bellhorn04]

A stretch that included onr world series title...

 

Ben's career as a GM is a tough one to assess.

 

But I'm somewhat of the belief now that he was never really comfortable being a GM. I think he likes being in the background a little more.

[Slasher9]

Theo > Dan Duq > Ben > D Domb

[mvp 78]

Theo > Dan Duq > Ben > D Domb

 

Theo >>> Ben > Domb > Duke

 

(As Sox GM only, for a career Dombo is way better than Ben)

[a700hitter]

Ben's career as a GM is a tough one to assess.

 

But I'm somewhat of the belief now that he was never really comfortable being a GM. I think he likes being in the background a little more.

I would be surprised if he landed a GM spot for 2018. I don't think there are a lot of openings. It took Duke a long time to get another GM spot and he had a much longer and better track record than Ben. Four years and three last place finishes with $200 million payrolls. That's an ugly record.