Should DD be fired?

[moonslav59]

This is a logical and fair assessment.

 

I agree.

 

In some ways yes, but I don't see how the Lackey decision negatively affected this year.

 

Yes, I'd rather have Lester & Encarnacion than Porcello, Pablo, Moreland & HRam.

 

The poster also does not credit Ben for supplying the stacked farm that allowed DD to acquire Sale, Pom and Kimbrel.

 

[Thunder]

This is a very pointless thread. If anybody gets fired, it's Farrell

[moonslav59]

This is a very pointless thread. If anybody gets fired, it's Farrell

 

While agree there is a zero percent chance DD gets fired, I do think it's fine for people who think he should be fired to express their opinions.

 

I've never been a DD fan, and I firmly disagree with 2 of his moves while being ambivalent over the Price signing. I can understand those who disagreed with his philosophy to get even more upset over the fact that the rationalization of his philosophy was that we'd be HIGHLY competitive for 3-5 years. The quick exit last year and the two blow-out losses this year has driven some of those to this point.

 

I am not for firing DD this winter. I think every GM deserves 5 years. If the GM is spending large and trading many prospects, I can see giving just a 3-4 year window. A plan like Ben's, I feel, deserved a 5 year window.

 

[Spudboy]

In some ways yes, but I don't see how the Lackey decision negatively affected this year.

 

Yes, I'd rather have Lester & Encarnacion than Porcello, Pablo, Moreland & HRam.

 

The poster also does not credit Ben for supplying the stacked farm that allowed DD to acquire Sale, Pom and Kimbrel.

 

 

Sale and Pom may not have been necessary gets if Boy Blunder had not blown up the rotation which necessitated using prospect chips to rebuild.

 

The Lackey trade was just f***ing dumb. All we got from that move was a functional pen arm.

 

I don't need to hear the speculation that Lackey was not going to play for the minimum in Boston. That argument is tired and without substantiation.

 

Bennie f***ed up, plain and simple.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

There is no doubt that Ben Cherrington totally screwed up the rotation. Dombrowski came in and tried to fix what Cherrington screwed up. I'm just worried that Dombrowski has made matters worse in the long term by trading away Kopech.....

[Thunder]

While agree there is a zero percent chance DD gets fired, I do think it's fine for people who think he should be fired to express their opinions.

 

I've never been a DD fan, and I firmly disagree with 2 of his moves while being ambivalent over the Price signing. I can understand those who disagreed with his philosophy to get even more upset over the fact that the rationalization of his philosophy was that we'd be HIGHLY competitive for 3-5 years. The quick exit last year and the two blow-out losses this year has driven some of those to this point.

 

I am not for firing DD this winter. I think every GM deserves 5 years. If the GM is spending large and trading many prospects, I can see giving just a 3-4 year window. A plan like Ben's, I feel, deserved a 5 year window.

 

 

Yes, people are allowed to express their opinions. I was expressing mine.

[moonslav59]

Sale and Pom may not have been necessary gets if Boy Blunder had not blown up the rotation which necessitated using prospect chips to rebuild.

 

The Lackey trade was just f***ing dumb. All we got from that move was a functional pen arm.

 

I don't need to hear the speculation that Lackey was not going to play for the minimum in Boston. That argument is tired and without substantiation.

 

Bennie f***ed up, plain and simple.

 

My point was about Lackey and the 2017 team.

 

He should not be a part of the 2017 discussion.

 

1) His contract ran out before 2017.

2) He was a non factor this year.

[moonslav59]

Yes, people are allowed to express their opinions. I was expressing mine.

 

Yes, you were, and it's a valid opinion to not want hypothesize or discuss anything beyond the possible.

 

Personally, I'm fine with discussing impossible or highly improbable happenings or thinking it's okay for others to do so.

[moonslav59]

There is no doubt that Ben Cherrington totally screwed up the rotation. Dombrowski came in and tried to fix what Cherrington screwed up. I'm just worried that Dombrowski has made matters worse in the long term by trading away Kopech.....

 

That was his best trade.

[oldtimer]

That was his best trade.

 

One of the worst decisions was to retain Farrell and let Lovullo go. I can understand why it was done, but Lovullo was the up and comer for the organization and it might be difficult to find someone better if we do decide to let JF go at the end of this season/

[jad]

So I guess those who would fire D think that getting Sale was obviously a terrible move, that Pablo should have been cut earlier so that Devers could have spent another year in AA, and that to replace Papi, he should have picked up one of the many many HoF hitters who were available?

[moonslav59]

One of the worst decisions was to retain Farrell and let Lovullo go. I can understand why it was done, but Lovullo was the up and comer for the organization and it might be difficult to find someone better if we do decide to let JF go at the end of this season/

 

I agree on lovullo.

I do not think it will be hard to find some better than JF, but our pitching may suffer

[Larry Cook]

Many of this team's issues date back to decisions from the Cherington era, from the Sandoval and Ramirez contracts to (I would argue) the botching of the Lester and Lackey trades in 2014. Right now you can fault Dombrowski for not adding a power bat last winter and for trading Shaw, but that's about it. On the other hand, we wouldn't even be in it this year without Dave's additions (Kimbrel, Sale, and Pomeranz primarily).

 

I would think Dave's job is not even close to being in jeopardy at this point.

 

I believe that one day when the onion is peeled back, we will learn that Larry was pulling the strings on his puppet Ben from the day Theo left/Ben hired to the day Larry was fired.

 

Everything from valentine to Sandoval smells of Larry.

[Spudboy]

My point was about Lackey and the 2017 team.

 

He should not be a part of the 2017 discussion.

 

1) His contract ran out before 2017.

2) He was a non factor this year.

 

So I guess it is not within the realm of possibility that Lackey could have remained productive and resigned by the Sox?

 

Logic fail.

[Elktonnick]

As much as I dislike Farrell as a manager he did get them through to the ALE Division title overcoming some serious obstacles along the way. The fundamental problem with this team is well beyond Farrell. The team was poorly constructed from the outset offensively. To replace Ortiz they relied on a fading oft injured mercurial Hanley Ramirez who is doing his best to mimic Manny Ramirez in his declining years. Betts, Bogaerts, Pedroia, Benintendi and Bradley are essentially the same type of hitters who even at their best do not intimidate any opposing pitchers. The entire team from time to time suffers from a lack of focus which can best be attributed to their collective inexperience and the lack of a strong positive clubhouse leader instead they have the chronic whiner and sourpuss Price.

 

Yes Farrell has some of the blame but this is DD's team. He has made some solid moves to shore up the pitching especially in the bullpen but now he needs to turn his attention to the offense. I for one hope they do a complete rethink on their approach toward hitting to reflect the changes in the game with the advent of the widespread use of the defensive shift and power arms in virtually every bullpen.

[oldtimer]

As much as I dislike Farrell as a manager he did get them through to the ALE Division title overcoming some serious obstacles along the way. The fundamental problem with this team is well beyond Farrell. The team was poorly constructed from the outset offensively. To replace Ortiz they relied on a fading oft injured mercurial Hanley Ramirez who is doing his best to mimic Manny Ramirez in his declining years. Betts, Bogaerts, Pedroia, Benintendi and Bradley are essentially the same type of hitters who even at their best do not intimidate any opposing pitchers. The entire team from time to time suffers from a lack of focus which can best be attributed to their collective inexperience and the lack of a strong positive clubhouse leader instead they have the chronic whiner and sourpuss Price.

 

Yes Farrell has some of the blame but this is DD's team. He has made some solid moves to shore up the pitching especially in the bullpen but now he needs to turn his attention to the offense. I for one hope they do a complete rethink on their approach toward hitting to reflect the changes in the game with the advent of the widespread use of the defensive shift and power arms in virtually every bullpen.

 

To be fair to DD, I believe he was under financial constriants this year and had to forego any attempt at a high priced big bat this year. That definitely impacted the team as none of our hitters looked that threatening this year.

[Elktonnick]

To be fair to DD, I believe he was under financial constriants this year and had to forego any attempt at a high priced big bat this year. That definitely impacted the team as none of our hitters looked that threatening this year.

 

He may have been. It may well turn out to be that he has a master plan. After all Rome wasn't built in a day as they say. Nevertheless, I believe that the Sox need to take a fresh approach toward hitting and develop a more aggressive approach a la the Astros.

[oldtimer]

He may have been. It may well turn out to be that he has a master plan. After all Rome wasn't built in a day as they say. Nevertheless, I believe that the Sox need to take a fresh approach toward hitting and develop a more aggressive approach a la the Astros.

 

Totally agree with you on that one. Thats why I have been recommending going a different way with the hitting coach. Results matter and ours were visibly poor for most of the year. Taking two piches on the plate and swinging one off the plate is not a successful strategy.

[Elktonnick]

Totally agree with you on that one. Thats why I have been recommending going a different way with the hitting coach. Results matter and ours were visibly poor for most of the year. Taking two piches on the plate and swinging one off the plate is not a successful strategy.

 

Boy you said !!! My wife and I scream at the TV. That old strategy may have worked ten years ago. But with today's bullpens every team has relievers who throw 95 or better.

[a700hitter]

Boy you said !!! My wife and I scream at the TV. That old strategy may have worked ten years ago. But with today's bullpens every team has relievers who throw 95 or better.

Yep, hitting strategy needs to change to adapt to changes to today's bullpens.

[Spudboy]

He may have been. It may well turn out to be that he has a master plan. After all Rome wasn't built in a day as they say. Nevertheless, I believe that the Sox need to take a fresh approach toward hitting and develop a more aggressive approach a la the Astros.

 

Swinging at first pitches could be a start.

 

Adding at least one big bat would be another priority.

[Kimmi]

Despite an early exit that may or may not occur, the team won 93 games, won the AL East, and had a +117 run differential. As frustrating as the offense has been for most of the season, the team was not seriously flawed or poorly built. Dombrowski focused on pitching and defense rather than offense, and there is really is nothing wrong with that. The 'formula' worked.

[cp176]

I believe that one day when the onion is peeled back, we will learn that Larry was pulling the strings on his puppet Ben from the day Theo left/Ben hired to the day Larry was fired.

 

Everything from valentine to Sandoval smells of Larry.

 

Seriously - Who gives a s*** about these f***ing stuffed shirts? Let's all vote for our favorite GM - big f***ing deal. You people that claim to know what so and so's plan is fry my ass. If you know what anyone's real plan is, tell me who your are. If you are not closely affiliated with upper management, then you don't know s***. I'm still a Lou Gorman fan - so sue me.

[OH FOY]

What was the run differential on teams over .500? Anybody have any idea? Because when you go to Post-Season, that's all you'll be facing.

For that matter wonder what was our W-L record against teams over .500 this year?

Edited October 7, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Kimmi]

What was the run differential on teams over .500? Anybody have any idea? Because when you go to Post-Season, that's all you'll be facing.

For that matter wonder what was our W-L record against teams over .500?

 

Our run differential against teams over .500 was +10. We had positive run differentials against the Cubs, Guardians, Twins, and Cardinals. We had negative run differentials against the Astros, Brewers, and Yankees. It's interesting to note that only 50 of our games were against teams that ended up over .500, Our W-L record against them was 27-23.

 

So yes, most of our 'damage' was done against below .500 teams, but I think that would be the case with any of the contenders. And we ended up in the good on both differential and W-L record.

[OH FOY]

Thank you.

[Spudboy]

lol

[SoxHop]

We aren't firing anyone. We don't need a new approach for our hitters because that is what they are. We don't need to win games with homeruns instead of driving in runs. The team won the ALE so it wasn't poorly constructed. We won many games off off of other teams bullpens, and taking pitches made that happen.

 

What we need is one damn starter to show up in the playoffs a couple of games.

 

There is no way to manage our Ace who fades months before the playoffs.........

Edited October 8, 2017 by SoxHop

[notin]

We aren't firing anyone. We don't need a new approach for our hitters because that is what they are. We don't need to win games with homeruns instead of driving in runs. The team won the ALE so it wasn't poorly constructed. We won many games off off of other teams bullpens, and taking pitches made that happen.

 

What we need is one damn starter to show up in the playoffs a couple of games.

 

There is no way to manage our Ace who fades months before the playoffs.........

 

Well said.

 

 

Also can we stop with the "this team isn't built to win in the post-season BS"? It's never made sense ever.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

That was his best trade.

 

There is a lot that could go wrong with the trade. For example, Sale could go on the DL with an elbow issue in 2018, and go under the knife, while Kopech could develop into a dominant starter by 2019 and Moncada could be a perennial All Star. It'll take a few years before we can reach a definitive conclusion.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs