Price out with forearm soreness

[cp176]

Let's go back in time, shall we?

 

I was so disgusted with our ball club in 2015 that only games I watched were the games that E Rod started after his call up. Was he perfect? No, but when he pitched well, he pitched like a #2 starter. I don't have the stats in front of me but my guess is that he pitched well 2 out of 3 starts. Not a bad pick up for half year of Miller.

 

Last year, he was not physically 100%. That led to some bad habits. I recall a game where he only had two pitches and everyone sat on his fastball, which was in low 90's. Something was off.

 

Lets' wait and see how he does in April. He's under team control for another 5 years. We need for him to succeed. He's got the stuff to be a #3 pitcher and I think that's his low floor (ceiling?)

 

When he first broke in, all of the scouting reports said that a #2 was a reasonable projection. If he is healthy, he can certainly be more than adequate in the three hole. He has a talented arm and looks to be built for the long haul. I hope that there is not a disconnect between his brain and his arm.

[cp176]

Yes he is. The conspiracy comment comes from him saying the sox are downplaying the injury to gauge the market. That just isn't true.

 

 

He has been posting here for awhile and has joined the so-called list of the accepted. i think that it is good to hear some takes from someone who works in the medical field. If the Red Sox are keeping something from us with respect to the Price injury, I'm ok with it. I don't have this great need to know. I agree with you with respect to having a little faith in what we have heard from the medical professionals who are dealing with Price. It is often suggested that the doctors and everyone working in the training field having anything to do with the Red Sox often don't know what they are talking about. I think that that is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure that they know what they are talking about.

[Nick]

He has been posting here for awhile and has joined the so-called list of the accepted. i think that it is good to hear some takes from someone who works in the medical field. If the Red Sox are keeping something from us with respect to the Price injury, I'm ok with it. I don't have this great need to know. I agree with you with respect to having a little faith in what we have heard from the medical professionals who are dealing with Price. It is often suggested that the doctors and everyone working in the training field having anything to do with the Red Sox often don't know what they are talking about. I think that that is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure that they know what they are talking about.

 

It would suck to give away $62M for a surgery at this point. That pretty much wipes out 2017 and 2018.

[cp176]

It would suck to give away $62M for a surgery at this point. That pretty much wipes out 2017 and 2018.

 

No one is going to disagree with you there I hope. It's the (price) the high rollers pay though I guess. Nothing we can do about it.

[harmony]

Let's go back in time, shall we?

 

I was so disgusted with our ball club in 2015 that only games I watched were the games that E Rod started after his call up. Was he perfect? No, but when he pitched well, he pitched like a #2 starter. I don't have the stats in front of me but my guess is that he pitched well 2 out of 3 starts. Not a bad pick up for half year of Miller.

 

Last year, he was not physically 100%. That led to some bad habits. I recall a game where he only had two pitches and everyone sat on his fastball, which was in low 90's. Something was off.

 

Lets' wait and see how he does in April. He's under team control for another 5 years. We need for him to succeed. He's got the stuff to be a #3 pitcher and I think that's his low floor (ceiling?)

In 2015 lefthander Eduardo Rodriguez posted quality starts in 13 of 21 starts:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=rodried05&t=p&year=2015

 

Rodriguez has a career ERA of 4.25 and a career ERA+ of 104 in 41 starts. FanGraphs Depth Charts, Steamer and ZiPS projects Rodriguez with 2017 WAR of 1.8 in 139 innings, 1.6 in 136 innings and 2.1 in 146.2 innings:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13164&position=P

[Fisk]

He can have his opinion but I'm going to question when I think he's going off the tracks.

[cp176]

He can have his opinion but I'm going to question when I think he's going off the tracks.

 

I hope you do. I think that it is important that you do.

[Fisk]

Thank you

[Emp9]

He is that, but he's also a doctor and might even be able to play one on television!

 

..and I never bet against Dr. House. s***, this is bad.

[mvp 78]

He can have his opinion but I'm going to question when I think he's going off the tracks.

 

Jacko has a hit or miss track record when it comes to talent evaluation. However, he has always been as unbiased as possible when it comes to injuries. Yeah, it's annoying that he loves to be the first to post about a Sox injury. Yeah, he probably relishes in our misery if a top player goes down. His track record with respect to player injuries is second to none. He flat out knows what he's talking about.

 

My guess is that the story gets a lot bigger 10 days from now when Price goes back for further evaluation.

[notin]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.athleticsnation.com/platform/amp/2014/3/26/5548836/dr-david-geier-tommy-john-surgery-injury-jarrod-parker-kris-medlen-stephen-strasburg

 

Further down in the post he talks about Strasburg being misdiagnosed initially as a flexor mass strain. Joel Hanrahan, Ivan Nova, Kyle Gibson were all diagnosed initially with forearm strains who eventually were found to have UCL tears. I don't see any randomized double blind studies here, but it's definitely a concern

 

It's a concern any time a pitcher's pitching arm hurts, regardless of whether or not it puts them on the DL that day. Even if Price pitches all season, will he be the same with discomfort that isn't a tear?

[Fisk]

I am going to agree with the foremost expert on elbows in andrews

[mvp 78]

I am going to agree with the foremost expert on elbows in andrews

 

What did Andrews say exactly? I haven't seen any quotes from him.

 

This is what Price said about it:

 

"It (the strain) is in the muscle. I know that," Price said. "I don't know. As soon as they said it was not as bad as they thought it would be and do it on your program, I just kind of shut my hearing off. I didn't want to hear anything else."

 

The only take away was that "it's not as bad as the dr's thought it could have been." Once (if?) he resumes throwing next week, maybe we'll have a better idea then.

[Fisk]

There is absolutely no tear and the issue is in the muscle not the ligament. I'm not saying the issue might not linger, boy from the sound of it not TJ surgery.

[Fisk]

It's also a good sign that he doesn't seem that nervous about it and says it feels better everyday.

 

He also said the day after if it felt like that he would not have reported it to the team doctors. He would of considers it the normal pain in spring training.,

[moonslav59]

Will miss his debut and is getting a second opinion after he had an MRI. Either they're being unnecessarily cryptic or it sounds rather concerning

 

I'm very concerned.

 

It could turn out to be minor, and maybe I'm being pessimistic, but this doesn't look good.

[FredLynn]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.athleticsnation.com/platform/amp/2014/3/26/5548836/dr-david-geier-tommy-john-surgery-injury-jarrod-parker-kris-medlen-stephen-strasburg

 

Further down in the post he talks about Strasburg being misdiagnosed initially as a flexor mass strain. Joel Hanrahan, Ivan Nova, Kyle Gibson were all diagnosed initially with forearm strains who eventually were found to have UCL tears. I don't see any randomized double blind studies here, but it's definitely a concern

 

I will paste below the passage you presumably referenced. Note also the comment that states that "there are pitchers who get pronator strains who do just fine". Of course its a concern; even Andrews doesn't always get it right. We are both in the medical field, and both of us know that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much. I looked for real studies about the accuracy of the MRI in diagnosing UCL tears and could find none. I think we can stipulate that they are not 100% accurate, but how inaccurate they are is a matter that hasn't apparently been addressed. To state that there are "a lot" of them, as you did, without the proper data to back it up (because, apparently, such data does not exist-or at least I haven't been able to find it) remains in the realm of anecdotal evidence. The bottom line is this: Price went to perhaps the best doctor in the world, had the best available diagnostic testing, and the treatment that was recommended didn't even include an injection. How he will actually do is anybody's guess. I am sure, as a baseball fan, you wish him nothing but the best.

Here is the passage to which you referred, I believe:

 

"If you go back and look at all the press releases of Stephen Strasburg in the week before he went down, he was out for a start due to a flexor pronator strain and then shortly thereafter he went down with the Tommy John injury. Those would be words that would at least concern me, but there are pitchers who get flexor pronator strains and do fine. But any kind of medial (inside) elbow pain is worth looking at closely and being very careful with."

[FredLynn]

Speaking about anecdotal evidence, I found this case report. Andrew Miller was diagnosed on June 10 with a flexor muscle strain and missed about a month. He never underwent Tommy John surgery, just rest, meds, and rehab. IF that is all Price has he should do fine. He is far from out of the woods, but as long as the UCL is intact he will pitch sooner rather than later.

 

NEW YORK -- On Wednesday, after a 5-4 loss in 11 innings to the Washington Nationals at Yankee Stadium, the Yankees announced that closer Andrew Miller would be placed on the disabled list with a strained mass flexor muscle. (this was dated June 10, 2015)

[Slasher9]

You are new here so maybe you feel it's okay to just dis a Yankee fan for all of the imagined reasons.

 

Jacko is an MD who played college baseball.

 

Most of us understand his bluntness and interpret it as fair.

 

He knows of which he speaks.

how do you know? because he told you on a forum?

FYI - im sort of new here so maybe you dont know. I am a brain surgeon with an IQ of 168.

[Slasher9]

No worries.

That wont happen until October.

 

lol. +2 points.

[Spudboy]

how do you know? because he told you on a forum?

FYI - im sort of new here so maybe you dont know. I am a brain surgeon with an IQ of 168.

 

I know more than a little bit about human Physiology and have had a few protracted off line conversations with him.

 

He knows far more about physiology and medical science than any poseur I could imagine. So yes, I know that he is a Doctor.

[a700hitter]

how do you know? because he told you on a forum?

FYI - im sort of new here so maybe you dont know. I am a brain surgeon with an IQ of 168.

Jacko is most definitely an MD.

[Kimmi]

He is still very young and learning. I see so much potential in this guy. I hope he can step up and be consistent. When he is on he looks fantastic... Unfortunately with a lot of young players they are inconsistent especially in big pressure games (like the playoffs lol)

 

I agree Tyler. He has the potential. He will get it together one of these days. Hopefully, it will be sooner rather than later.

[Kimmi]

No worries.

That wont happen until October.

 

LOL

 

Ouch.

[Kimmi]

Let's go back in time, shall we?

 

I was so disgusted with our ball club in 2015 that only games I watched were the games that E Rod started after his call up. Was he perfect? No, but when he pitched well, he pitched like a #2 starter. I don't have the stats in front of me but my guess is that he pitched well 2 out of 3 starts. Not a bad pick up for half year of Miller.

 

Last year, he was not physically 100%. That led to some bad habits. I recall a game where he only had two pitches and everyone sat on his fastball, which was in low 90's. Something was off.

 

Lets' wait and see how he does in April. He's under team control for another 5 years. We need for him to succeed. He's got the stuff to be a #3 pitcher and I think that's his low floor (ceiling?)

 

My post was not meant to be a knock on ERod. I like him and I loved the trade to get him, even though I hated giving up Miller. I just hope that ERod can pitch to his potential and pitch more consistently this season.

 

I think he has the potential to be a #2.

[Kimmi]

I am going to agree with the foremost expert on elbows in andrews

 

I am with you on this Fisk. At the present, I am fairly optimistic about Price returning sooner rather than later, based on the opinions of two reputable doctors who actually examined him and saw the MRI, and based on the comments from Price.

[Kimmi]

What did Andrews say exactly? I haven't seen any quotes from him.

 

This is what Price said about it:

 

"It (the strain) is in the muscle. I know that," Price said. "I don't know. As soon as they said it was not as bad as they thought it would be and do it on your program, I just kind of shut my hearing off. I didn't want to hear anything else."

 

The only take away was that "it's not as bad as the dr's thought it could have been." Once (if?) he resumes throwing next week, maybe we'll have a better idea then.

 

Andrews did say that Price's elbow is 'unique' and that it heals itself.

[Kimmi]

Oh but he's a Yankee Troll Conspiracy Theorist.

 

Jacko does have a tendency, as I think we all do, to "slant" things a little differently depending on whether he talking about a Sox player or a Yankees player.

[Spudboy]

Jacko does have a tendency, as I think we all do, to "slant" things a little differently depending on whether he talking about a Sox player or a Yankees player.

 

So?

 

Does that mean that everything ( especially his expertise in things medical ) he says should be discredited?

 

At the very least one should take it from whence it comes.

 

Whatever.

[a700hitter]

So?

 

Does that mean that everything ( especially his expertise in things medical ) he says should be discredited?

 

At the very least one should take it from whence it comes.

 

Whatever.

He has more credibility on injury issues than anyone else on this board.