Price out with forearm soreness

[cp176]

Price says he doesn't want to put a timetable on his return, but the way he's talking, he goes through a similar soreness every spring training. He did say it was more extreme this year, but he also said that the amount of improvement from the 2nd day to the 3rd day (I think), with no treatment, was significant enough that if he felt like that, he wouldn't have even mentioned it. In short, he is sounding very optimistic about a fairly quick return.

 

Of course he could be blowing a lot of smoke, but I'm feeling hopeful that it won't be a prolonged injury.

 

i'm not sure at all whether he will come back when he thinks he will but I think that he is genuine and sincere. I know that there are people here who did not like the signing and the contract. I'm not one of them. I think that he is tough and very sincere. He has been a workhorse. Ridden hard and put away wet for most of his career. I think that he is the type of person and baseball player that we want in Boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

So it's a "strain". A strain is technically a muscle tear (graded 1-3 with 1 being a slight tear and 3 being a complete). Based on the area in question, that Farrell statement makes no medical sense. I am intrigued to see what he ends up actually having. 7-10 days and then a re-eval. If the MRI was obscured due to inflammation, they may be doing another one after that time. I am wondering if this "diagnosis" is somewhat close to accurate (maybe a grade 1 sprain of the ligament) or a smokescreen to allow the sox to gauge the pitching market without other teams feeling like the sox are desperate. Their initial comments were really misleading too. The MRI had fluid buildup and the results were "inconclusive". Could they see the ligament or was it obscured? If the ligament was obscured by localized inflammation, then it's a meaningless test and one that needs to be repeated. Maybe that's what they meant. And if they did, then the exam in Indy would also be inconclusive. Either way, we will know more soon

[Fisk]

So it's a "strain". A strain is technically a muscle tear (graded 1-3 with 1 being a slight tear and 3 being a complete). Based on the area in question, that Farrell statement makes no medical sense. I am intrigued to see what he ends up actually having. 7-10 days and then a re-eval. If the MRI was obscured due to inflammation, they may be doing another one after that time. I am wondering if this "diagnosis" is somewhat close to accurate (maybe a grade 1 sprain of the ligament) or a smokescreen to allow the sox to gauge the pitching market without other teams feeling like the sox are desperate. Their initial comments were really misleading too. The MRI had fluid buildup and the results were "inconclusive". Could they see the ligament or was it obscured? If the ligament was obscured by localized inflammation, then it's a meaningless test and one that needs to be repeated. Maybe that's what they meant. And if they did, then the exam in Indy would also be inconclusive. Either way, we will know more soon

 

Nothing like a good conspiracy theory.

[mvp 78]

Nothing like a good conspiracy theory.

 

Nah, he knows what he's talking about with the medical stuff.

[Fisk]

So it's a "strain". A strain is technically a muscle tear (graded 1-3 with 1 being a slight tear and 3 being a complete). Based on the area in question, that Farrell statement makes no medical sense. I am intrigued to see what he ends up actually having. 7-10 days and then a re-eval. If the MRI was obscured due to inflammation, they may be doing another one after that time. I am wondering if this "diagnosis" is somewhat close to accurate (maybe a grade 1 sprain of the ligament) or a smokescreen to allow the sox to gauge the pitching market without other teams feeling like the sox are desperate. Their initial comments were really misleading too. The MRI had fluid buildup and the results were "inconclusive". Could they see the ligament or was it obscured? If the ligament was obscured by localized inflammation, then it's a meaningless test and one that needs to be repeated. Maybe that's what they meant. And if they did, then the exam in Indy would also be inconclusive. Either way, we will know more soon

 

Based on the statements from the doctors in Indy and Prices reaction I'm not that worried about it.

 

Even if Price had TJ surgery the only gauging of the pitching market would be a very cheap Doug Fister or Colby Lewis to a minor league contract.

[Kimmi]

I say give Price extended spring training or whatever. Keep his innings down this year to may be 170-180. Then if he can still stay healthy, maybe he won't pitch so poorly in the post-season. ..

 

Makes sense.

 

His delayed start to the season might end up being a blessing in disguise come post season.

[Kimmi]

i'm not sure at all whether he will come back when he thinks he will but I think that he is genuine and sincere. I know that there are people here who did not like the signing and the contract. I'm not one of them. I think that he is tough and very sincere. He has been a workhorse. Ridden hard and put away wet for most of his career. I think that he is the type of person and baseball player that we want in Boston.

 

I did not like the contract only because I don't like long term contracts in general. When it's a contract to a pitcher it's even worse, and when it's a contract to a pitcher over 30, it's that much more worse. However, as I said in a previous post, if you're going to give out such a contract, Price is the guy to give it to.

 

I think he will be fine.

[Kimmi]

So it's a "strain". A strain is technically a muscle tear (graded 1-3 with 1 being a slight tear and 3 being a complete). Based on the area in question, that Farrell statement makes no medical sense. I am intrigued to see what he ends up actually having. 7-10 days and then a re-eval. If the MRI was obscured due to inflammation, they may be doing another one after that time. I am wondering if this "diagnosis" is somewhat close to accurate (maybe a grade 1 sprain of the ligament) or a smokescreen to allow the sox to gauge the pitching market without other teams feeling like the sox are desperate. Their initial comments were really misleading too. The MRI had fluid buildup and the results were "inconclusive". Could they see the ligament or was it obscured? If the ligament was obscured by localized inflammation, then it's a meaningless test and one that needs to be repeated. Maybe that's what they meant. And if they did, then the exam in Indy would also be inconclusive. Either way, we will know more soon

 

The diagnosis is 'a mild flexor strain and some bone spurs'. I don't know what that means, but they have said several times that it's in the muscle, not the ligament. Price has also said that both doctors said that the diagnosis was much better than they expected it would be.

 

As far as the diagnosis being a smokescreen, these are two of the leading doctors on elbow injuries, Dr. Andrews and Dr. ElAttrache, giving the diagnosis. Do you think they would put their reputations on the line so that the Sox can gauge the pitching market without looking desperate?

[Kimmi]

Based on the statements from the doctors in Indy and Prices reaction I'm not that worried about it.

 

Even if Price had TJ surgery the only gauging of the pitching market would be a very cheap Doug Fister or Colby Lewis to a minor league contract.

 

I am not concerned about it either. At least not yet. There is always a possibility that Price will not progress in his rehab like we all hope he does, but at this point, I'm going to take the statements from the doctors and from Price on their words.

[Fisk]

Me too

[notin]

Nothing like a good conspiracy theory.

 

My exact thoughts.

 

People are so quick to believe in conspiracies when it's not their team/guy...

[Spudboy]

Nothing like a good conspiracy theory.

 

You are new here so maybe you feel it's okay to just dis a Yankee fan for all of the imagined reasons.

 

Jacko is an MD who played college baseball.

 

Most of us understand his bluntness and interpret it as fair.

 

He knows of which he speaks.

[FredLynn]

I say give Price extended spring training or whatever. Keep his innings down this year to may be 170-180. Then if he can still stay healthy, maybe he won't pitch so poorly in the post-season. ..

 

Thats great if our other top 5 SPs can stay healthy. Ideally we would keep all of their innings down to that level. On the other hand, if one of them gets significantly hurt, do you really want to see the likes of Owens or Johnson out there for any extended period of time?

[Fisk]

I'm sorry but I disagree with you have been reading this board for many years disagree with a lot of what he says. I believe he's very knowledgable, but he looked at the reporting on the injury he should have realized the problem is not with the ligament and that they saw no tear in the UCL.

 

It is human nature to fhink favorably about your favorite team and think of worst case scenario for you rival.

[FredLynn]

So it's a "strain". A strain is technically a muscle tear (graded 1-3 with 1 being a slight tear and 3 being a complete). Based on the area in question, that Farrell statement makes no medical sense. I am intrigued to see what he ends up actually having. 7-10 days and then a re-eval. If the MRI was obscured due to inflammation, they may be doing another one after that time. I am wondering if this "diagnosis" is somewhat close to accurate (maybe a grade 1 sprain of the ligament) or a smokescreen to allow the sox to gauge the pitching market without other teams feeling like the sox are desperate. Their initial comments were really misleading too. The MRI had fluid buildup and the results were "inconclusive". Could they see the ligament or was it obscured? If the ligament was obscured by localized inflammation, then it's a meaningless test and one that needs to be repeated. Maybe that's what they meant. And if they did, then the exam in Indy would also be inconclusive. Either way, we will know more soon

 

Price specifically stated that the injury was in the muscle, not in the ligament. Therefore, its a strain, not a sprain, assuming he is telling the truth and assuming Andrews got the diagnosis right. If it was the Red Sox team physicians who drew that conclusion I would be more skeptical, but Andrews has a very good reputation. You know as well as I do that strains may cause localized inflammation and some edema. The MRI would likely have been able to pick up a torn or partially torn UCL despite the swelling, so I would interpret "inconclusive" to mean "no tear in the ligament seen". When you think about it, nearly every injury that requires an MRI is going to have some swelling associated with it.

And thats good news if you are a Red Sox fan. I admit that there is a small chance the the MRI missed a tear, but the resolution on that test is so good that I would imagine that the results are probably over 90% accurate. As you said, time will tell.

[Fisk]

Price specifically stated that the injury was in the muscle, not in the ligament. Therefore, its a strain, not a sprain, assuming he is telling the truth and assuming Andrews got the diagnosis right. If it was the Red Sox team physicians who drew that conclusion I would be more skeptical, but Andrews has a very good reputation. You know as well as I do that strains may cause localized inflammation and some edema. The MRI would likely have been able to pick up a torn or partially torn UCL despite the swelling, so I would interpret "inconclusive" to mean "no tear in the ligament seen". When you think about it, nearly every injury that requires an MRI is going to have some swelling associated with it.

And thats good news if you are a Red Sox fan. I admit that there is a small chance the the MRI missed a tear, but the resolution on that test is so good that I would imagine that the results are probably over 90% accurate. As you said, time will tell.

 

Agree I trust what Andrews found.

[FredLynn]

I am not concerned about it either. At least not yet. There is always a possibility that Price will not progress in his rehab like we all hope he does, but at this point, I'm going to take the statements from the doctors and from Price on their words.

 

Well thats exactly it. I wrote as much earlier. Even if they call it a strain he could be out for months. And there is a small chance that the MRI missed the correct site of injury and its worse than what Andrews thought. The ONLY thing that matters is this: can he return from the injury, whatever they call it, and pitch effectively with minimal time on the DL. Too much emphasis on the diagnosis, IMO.

[Fisk]

Thats great if our other top 5 SPs can stay healthy. Ideally we would keep all of their innings down to that level. On the other hand, if one of them gets significantly hurt, do you really want to see the likes of Owens or Johnson out there for any extended period of time?

 

Ideally are 6 starters all do stay healthy, but it's inevitable we see an Owens, Johnson, Elias or Kendrick at some point this season, most teams will have multiple starts from this caliber of pitcher. You just have to hope that one or two can take a step forward. I'm hoping this is where Bannister can come in and make a difference.

[Kimmi]

Ideally are 6 starters all do stay healthy, but it's inevitable we see an Owens, Johnson, Elias or Kendrick at some point this season, most teams will have multiple starts from this caliber of pitcher. You just have to hope that one or two can take a step forward. I'm hoping this is where Bannister can come in and make a difference.

 

It would be nice if one or more could take a step forward. You would think that at least one of these guys would be able to step it up. Last year, for a while it seems like no matter who we put out there in the 4 or 5 spots, they were horrible.

 

It is also time for ERod to take a step forward and become a more consistent #3 type.

[Fisk]

It would be nice if one or more could take a step forward. You would think that at least one of these guys would be able to step it up. Last year, for a while it seems like no matter who we put out there in the 4 or 5 spots, they were horrible.

 

It is also time for ERod to take a step forward and become a more consistent #3 type.

 

All I think Erod needs is to stay healthy. Elias at one point was a serviceable 5th starter for Seattle, and have faith with a mentally and physically healthy offseason Johnson will revert back to form.

[jacksonianmarch]

Price specifically stated that the injury was in the muscle, not in the ligament. Therefore, its a strain, not a sprain, assuming he is telling the truth and assuming Andrews got the diagnosis right. If it was the Red Sox team physicians who drew that conclusion I would be more skeptical, but Andrews has a very good reputation. You know as well as I do that strains may cause localized inflammation and some edema. The MRI would likely have been able to pick up a torn or partially torn UCL despite the swelling, so I would interpret "inconclusive" to mean "no tear in the ligament seen". When you think about it, nearly every injury that requires an MRI is going to have some swelling associated with it.

And thats good news if you are a Red Sox fan. I admit that there is a small chance the the MRI missed a tear, but the resolution on that test is so good that I would imagine that the results are probably over 90% accurate. As you said, time will tell.

 

When I commented above, all that was published was a "strain". Now it looks like a flexor mass strain. How many guys get that diagnosis and end up with UCL tears? The answer is a fair amount. A UCL tear is notoriously undervisualized on MRI unless it is completely torn.

[Spudboy]

Oh but he's a Yankee Troll Conspiracy Theorist.

[TylerD]

It would be nice if one or more could take a step forward. You would think that at least one of these guys would be able to step it up. Last year, for a while it seems like no matter who we put out there in the 4 or 5 spots, they were horrible.

 

It is also time for ERod to take a step forward and become a more consistent #3 type.

 

He is still very young and learning. I see so much potential in this guy. I hope he can step up and be consistent. When he is on he looks fantastic... Unfortunately with a lot of young players they are inconsistent especially in big pressure games (like the playoffs lol)

[FredLynn]

When I commented above, all that was published was a "strain". Now it looks like a flexor mass strain. How many guys get that diagnosis and end up with UCL tears? The answer is a fair amount. A UCL tear is notoriously undervisualized on MRI unless it is completely torn.

 

I haven't been able to confirm that anywhere. Do you have a percentage of guys "being diagnosed with flexor mass strains" that end up having a torn UCL? Do you have a reference that cites the false negative rates? I have not found such a reference. Regardless, the MRI is the most definitive tool that specialists like Andrews use to make the diagnosis, and in the hands of someone like that, someone who has probable seen and evaluated hundreds of patients with torn UCLs, its the best chance for getting it right. Is it 100%? Of course not. None of us get it right all the time. This goes back to what I wrote earlier when you asked what the diagnosis is: it doesn't really matter what label they put on it; what really matters is how soon Price can become an effective pitcher again. Had it been the Red Sox medical team that made the assessment I would have more reason to doubt it, given their history. In Andrews I trust. Maybe he is wrong, but I doubt it.

[Fisk]

Oh but he's a Yankee Troll Conspiracy Theorist.

 

Yes he is. The conspiracy comment comes from him saying the sox are downplaying the injury to gauge the market. That just isn't true.

[jacksonianmarch]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.athleticsnation.com/platform/amp/2014/3/26/5548836/dr-david-geier-tommy-john-surgery-injury-jarrod-parker-kris-medlen-stephen-strasburg

 

Further down in the post he talks about Strasburg being misdiagnosed initially as a flexor mass strain. Joel Hanrahan, Ivan Nova, Kyle Gibson were all diagnosed initially with forearm strains who eventually were found to have UCL tears. I don't see any randomized double blind studies here, but it's definitely a concern

[Fisk]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.athleticsnation.com/platform/amp/2014/3/26/5548836/dr-david-geier-tommy-john-surgery-injury-jarrod-parker-kris-medlen-stephen-strasburg

 

Further down in the post he talks about Strasburg being misdiagnosed initially as a flexor mass strain. Joel Hanrahan, Ivan Nova, Kyle Gibson were all diagnosed initially with forearm strains who eventually were found to have UCL tears. I don't see any randomized double blind studies here, but it's definitely a concern

 

Would be a bigger concern if the 2 doctors seemed concerned.

[SoxnCycles]

I'm more concerned it's going to be one of thos nagging things that lingers all spring causing him to be ineffective, then about May they decide to "shut him down for a while", then about July we're told he needs TJ surgery.

 

No worries.

That wont happen until October.

[S5Dewey]

Oh but he's a Yankee Troll Conspiracy Theorist.

 

He is that, but he's also a doctor and might even be able to play one on television!

[Nick]

It would be nice if one or more could take a step forward. You would think that at least one of these guys would be able to step it up. Last year, for a while it seems like no matter who we put out there in the 4 or 5 spots, they were horrible.

 

It is also time for ERod to take a step forward and become a more consistent #3 type.

 

Let's go back in time, shall we?

 

I was so disgusted with our ball club in 2015 that only games I watched were the games that E Rod started after his call up. Was he perfect? No, but when he pitched well, he pitched like a #2 starter. I don't have the stats in front of me but my guess is that he pitched well 2 out of 3 starts. Not a bad pick up for half year of Miller.

 

Last year, he was not physically 100%. That led to some bad habits. I recall a game where he only had two pitches and everyone sat on his fastball, which was in low 90's. Something was off.

 

Lets' wait and see how he does in April. He's under team control for another 5 years. We need for him to succeed. He's got the stuff to be a #3 pitcher and I think that's his low floor (ceiling?)