Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[User Name]

What the Red Sox were doing in the DR was widespread, corrupt, and possibly criminal. It doesn't equate to what SD did.

 

Mostly Venezuela, but yes.

[moonslav59]

He's already provided something.

 

Barely.

[moonslav59]

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE. We live in present. Tell me how YOU can go into the Sox club house and face 25 men and tell them "sorry, I'm not going to give up a kid that may or may not be good until 2019. If we lose this year, so be it. f*** you guys and all your best seasons. Nope, I'm protecting my top 3 prospect. Go with what we got' If I'm one of the players, I would deck you in a heartbeat.

 

Well, Espi was a top 3 prospect we didn't "protect".

[moonslav59]

WE ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS CONTENDING FOR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. You of course would rather have kept Espy and not participate in this year's playoffs. I got it.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

1) The choice was not just trade for Pom or do nothing.

2) I suggested several trade options.

3) We could have absorbed the loss of Swihart and/or others to get a starter- maybe even a better one.

4) We probably make the playoffs without ever having Pom. He gave us 5 QS's out of 13 starts. We may have used Buch earlier than we did, or we might have gotten 2-3 QS's out of Owens, Johnson, Elias or Kelly out of the 13 Pom gave us.

[User Name]

Or things worked out and it's time to let that s*** go, goddamn people.

[a700hitter]

Barely.

That is not accurate. We had no other good option for his rotation spot. He made 13 starts for us, and the team won 6 of those games. He helped hold serve in that 5th spot.

[Spudboy]

I don't see this as being topical.

 

Slab lost his binky.

 

Too bad.

 

Any further discussion is a waste of time.

[Dojji]

He's already provided something.

 

Yep. He provided us exactly average production from the lower middle of the rotation.

[S5Dewey]

Well, Espi was a top 3 prospect we didn't "protect".

 

And in 2013 we traded away the runner-up ROY SS for a starting pitcher in the twilight of his career. Since we won the WS that year everyone seems to be happy enough with that.

 

Pomeranz came in and filled a spot that had to be filled, and it helped get us to the playoffs. He also is under team control for the next two years. If the Sox win the WS this year this trade will look better and if Espinoza doesn't turn out to be the next coming of Pedro it'll look better still.

 

The jury is still out on this trade. Let's give it a while and see how it looks in a couple of years.

[mvp 78]

That is not accurate. We had no other good option for his rotation spot. He made 13 starts for us, and the team won 6 of those games. He helped hold serve in that 5th spot.

 

It's like some people forget what happened at the end of 2011. If they kept throwing out the O'Sullivans of the world out to the wolves, this team might not have even won 90 games. They could have either been playing yesterday or be home playing golf...

[sk7326]

Listen - if you take the long view, the Red Sox "lost" the Josh Beckett deal ... but they don't win the 2007 title without Beckett or Lowell, they were difference makers while the party lasted. Nobody weeps about this.

[Nick]

WE ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS CONTENDING FOR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. You of course would rather have kept Espy and not participate in this year's playoffs. I got it.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

1) The choice was not just trade for Pom or do nothing.

2) I suggested several trade options.

3) We could have absorbed the loss of Swihart and/or others to get a starter- maybe even a better one.

4) We probably make the playoffs without ever having Pom. He gave us 5 QS's out of 13 starts. We may have used Buch earlier than we did, or we might have gotten 2-3 QS's out of Owens, Johnson, Elias or Kelly out of the 13 Pom gave us.

 

But again, you are being a Monday morning quaterback.....Pom was an All Star with team control. He is not a rental. He gave us 13 starts. DD did what he thought was best for the organization at the time.

 

Now if you want to blame anyone, it has to be Buchholtz who pitched like s*** before the trade deadline. Maybe we also blame JF and Wright for getting hurt by the second base bag that just happened to be in his way.

 

It was a good trade and I do it again.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Nick

[Nick]

Listen - if you take the long view, the Red Sox "lost" the Josh Beckett deal ... but they don't win the 2007 title without Beckett or Lowell, they were difference makers while the party lasted. Nobody weeps about this.

 

Bingo.....I hate all these Monday morning quarterbacks....you play to win the big one. Farm System exists for the Parent Team to use it as they see fit.

[User Name]

I really like Pomeranz, and I'm ok with the trade.

[sk7326]

I really like Pomeranz, and I'm ok with the trade.

 

I don't fault the logic of the trade - I have questions about the specific players ... questions about the specific purchase, not the philosophy of such a purchase (if that makes sense)

[moonslav59]

But again, you are being a Monday morning quaterback.....

 

How is it "Mondasy Morning QB'ing, when i hated the trade on day one and said so?

 

Pom was an All Star with team control. He is not a rental. He gave us 13 starts. DD did what he thought was best for the organization at the time.

 

Again, at the time of the trade and all along, I said I understood why we made the trade and that it DID make us better this year and through the next two years at a cost-controlled price- a big plus. I also never put down Pom and correctly viewed him a s a capable 3/4 slot starter going forward.

 

I'm not using the injury issue to Monday Morning QB, and we're not even sure the late season swoon is injury or fatigue related anyways.

 

Now if you want to blame anyone, it has to be Buchholtz who pitched like s*** before the trade deadline. Maybe we also blame JF and Wright for getting hurt by the second base bag that just happened to be in his way.

 

I try really hard to not play the blame game. However, that does not mean I don't speak up when I dislike a trade. I disliked the Iggy trade, but understood that within the context of the fact that the Sox were never going to move Bogey to 3B and make Iggy the starting SS, as I hoped for, the trade made perfect sense. Monday morning QB'ing might or might not work on that deal, but ultimately, all deals are judged on hindsight (fair or not).

 

This deal will be judged, IMO, on how well Pom does for us, and in some ways, if he influences a championship season vs how great or bad Espi ends up being. I'm fine with waiting it out, but I was certainly not for standing pat at the deadline, in fact, I wish we had gone bolder than Pom, even if it meant trading Espi, Swihart, Devers and mid-levels for Qunintana or Sale. so, please stop making me out to be someone not wanting to win this year or wanting us to go tell the players, "this is it, your stuck with what you got!"

 

It was a good trade and I do it again.

 

It was a bad trade- just like the Kimbrel one.

[moonslav59]

I really like Pomeranz, and I'm ok with the trade.

 

I like Pom a lot. His low cost contract over the next 2 years will help us spend elsewhere. That's a hidden asset.

 

I just like Espi much more- even if just as part of a larger package for someone much better than Pom.

[Dojji]

Don't know who you think was available who was all that much better than Pom.

[moonslav59]

Don't know who you think was available who was all that much better than Pom.

 

I'd have preferred a much bigger package for someone like Quintana or Sale. I realize, we don't know, if they were available or not, so we'll never know about that chance.

 

There were other comparable pitchers dealt on the deadline, so I guess we could assume they were available, but again, we'll never know, if there was a possible match.

 

Some good pitchers who were dealt that I can recall:

 

To Giants: LHP Matt Moore// To Rays: INF Matt Duffy, RHP Michael Santos, INF Lucius Fox

 

Matt Moore 12 GS 4.08 ERA/ 1.33 WHIP (3 more years of low-cost team control)

_________________________________

 

To Blue Jays: LHP Francisco Liriano, OF prospect Harold Ramirez, C/DH prospect Reese McGuire// To Pirates: RHP Drew Hutchison

 

Liriano: 10 GS 2.92 ERA/ 1.12 WHIP

____________________________________

 

There was also the Hill trade to the Dodgers earlier.

 

____________________________________

 

Look, I said I understood why we made the deal. Maybe, if I saw what teams were asking for Moore, Liriano, Hill, Quintana and sale, I'd have preferred the Pom trade. I get that this is all conjecture.

 

My dislike of the trade is more about Espi's enormous upside potential lost than any ill feelings towards Pom. I did express concerns about Pom's short sample size of doing well, and his lack of any long IP seasons under his belt, but I really liked and still like Pom. I especially like his low cost for the next 2 years. Not having to spend big on a SP'er this winter may allow us to stock up the pen and spend big on a bat.

 

[mvp 78]

Moore went from the AL East where he was struggling and put up better numbers in the NL West. Big surprise there. I think most of us would have rather had Pomeranz (All Star this year) than Matt Moore. Hill wouldn't have helped much down the stretch as he struggled with blister issues and only started 6 games.

[Bellhorn04]

But again, you are being a Monday morning quaterback.....

 

How is it "Mondasy Morning QB'ing, when i hated the trade on day one and said so?

 

Pom was an All Star with team control. He is not a rental. He gave us 13 starts. DD did what he thought was best for the organization at the time.

 

Again, at the time of the trade and all along, I said I understood why we made the trade and that it DID make us better this year and through the next two years at a cost-controlled price- a big plus. I also never put down Pom and correctly viewed him a s a capable 3/4 slot starter going forward.

 

I'm not using the injury issue to Monday Morning QB, and we're not even sure the late season swoon is injury or fatigue related anyways.

 

Now if you want to blame anyone, it has to be Buchholtz who pitched like s*** before the trade deadline. Maybe we also blame JF and Wright for getting hurt by the second base bag that just happened to be in his way.

 

I try really hard to not play the blame game. However, that does not mean I don't speak up when I dislike a trade. I disliked the Iggy trade, but understood that within the context of the fact that the Sox were never going to move Bogey to 3B and make Iggy the starting SS, as I hoped for, the trade made perfect sense. Monday morning QB'ing might or might not work on that deal, but ultimately, all deals are judged on hindsight (fair or not).

 

This deal will be judged, IMO, on how well Pom does for us, and in some ways, if he influences a championship season vs how great or bad Espi ends up being. I'm fine with waiting it out, but I was certainly not for standing pat at the deadline, in fact, I wish we had gone bolder than Pom, even if it meant trading Espi, Swihart, Devers and mid-levels for Qunintana or Sale. so, please stop making me out to be someone not wanting to win this year or wanting us to go tell the players, "this is it, your stuck with what you got!"

 

It was a good trade and I do it again.

 

It was a bad trade- just like the Kimbrel one.

 

How can you say you try not to play the blame game when you keep saying over and over-more than anyone else-that the Kimbrel trade and the Pom trade were bad?

 

When it comes to moves by the team brass, you play the blame game and you play it hard.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Bellhorn04

[a700hitter]

It's like some people forget what happened at the end of 2011. If they kept throwing out the O'Sullivans of the world out to the wolves, this team might not have even won 90 games. They could have either been playing yesterday or be home playing golf...

Yep, and that downward spiral can happen quickly.

[a700hitter]

Listen - if you take the long view, the Red Sox "lost" the Josh Beckett deal ... but they don't win the 2007 title without Beckett or Lowell, they were difference makers while the party lasted. Nobody weeps about this.

Beckett brought us a Championship and almost a second World Series appearance in 2008, so the Red Sox achieved their objective with that trade. If a trade helps you achieve your objective, you can't be the loser in the trade. You achieved your objective.

[moonslav59]

Moore went from the AL East where he was struggling and put up better numbers in the NL West. Big surprise there. I think most of us would have rather had Pomeranz (All Star this year) than Matt Moore. Hill wouldn't have helped much down the stretch as he struggled with blister issues and only started 6 games.

 

Moore started 12 games with SF, but he has 3 years left at a pretty cheap cost.

 

I'd rather have him than Pom, and that's why he might have cost more.

[moonslav59]

How can you say you try not to play the blame game when you keep saying over and over-more than anyone else-that the Kimbrel trade and the Pom trade were bad?

 

When it comes to moves by the team brass, you play the blame game and you play it hard.

 

Saying you don't like a trade is not "blaming" anyone. I hated many deals Ben made and did not blame him. I understood why he signed Pablo & hanRam and preferred to wait untli last winter to get pitching. He had a great 5 year plan, but never got to see it through. I did not want him fired either.

 

I have said I wanted JF gone, but very rarely criticize specific things he has done or blame him for loses.

[Dojji]

Getting sooooooo sick about hearing about freaking Quintana and Sale. There's very little smoke behind the idea of a Sale trade and absolutely NONE behind a trade of Quintana.

[Bellhorn04]

Saying you don't like a trade is not "blaming" anyone. I hated many deals Ben made and did not blame him. I understood why he signed Pablo & hanRam and preferred to wait untli last winter to get pitching. He had a great 5 year plan, but never got to see it through. I did not want him fired either.

 

I have said I wanted JF gone, but very rarely criticize specific things he has done or blame him for loses.

 

You have an interesting definition of blame. You think a GM made bad trades but you don't blame him for them. You want JF gone but you don't blame him for anything.

[moonslav59]

When it comes to moves by the team brass, you play the blame game and you play it hard.

 

I have never come close to saying, "See, Kimbrel sucks. I told you the trade sucked." That's blame.

 

Instead, I said I thought Kimbrel was a top 3 closer and would help this team enormously for 3 years. I was critical of the high contract and amount of top prospects needed to get a RP'er.

 

There's a big difference between criticism and blame. DD helped us win now. I don't "blame" him for that. I guess, in a way, I will end up "blaming" him if and when Espi turns out to be great, but I rarely call a GM dumb for making trades that make sense. I hated the Iggy trade, and went on for a while why I did, but I always said it made sense, since the Sox were never going to make Iggy the FT starting SS, like I would have done. The deal was a good one, if you look at it like we traded a back-up IF'er for a 3 starter. We then got Hembree for Peavy.

 

I'm one of the few that don't blame the manager for not taking out Pedro.

 

Really, I rarely "blame" people for anything. I can hate a trade, but I don't say, "DD ruined our future! It's all his fault!" That's playing the blame game.

[moonslav59]

You have an interesting definition of blame. You think a GM made bad trades but you don't blame him for them. You want JF gone but you don't blame him for anything.

 

Some of the trades I thought were bad, worked out well, so that's one reason not to blame someone.

 

Not liking a trade or thinking we might have done better is not "blame".

 

I don't like someone's choice of clothing today, but I don't "blame them " for wearing it.

 

Disagreeing and blaming are not synonyms.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Moore started 12 games with SF, but he has 3 years left at a pretty cheap cost.

 

I'd rather have him than Pom, and that's why he might have cost more.

 

Significant inter-divisional trades are almost non-existent. I seriously doubt the Rays would've traded Moore within the division or the Sox would've traded the prospects it would've taken to get him within the division.