Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[Jack Flap]

Wasn't really looking to rekindle the debate over whether we should have traded Espinoza, though it still seems like a high price to pay for a guy who had never been a starter for a full season...having to "handle him with care" down the stretch due to his having thrown more innings than ever before was an entirely predictable outcome, and we're lucky Buchholz seems to have found himself again (for now) or we'd be short a SP once again heading into October. That's before we even get into whatever underlying issue was in his medical reports that Preller withheld (it doesn't seem to have been anything severe, but we know there was something).

 

Hopefully this is just normal fatigue and nothing more.

[Wade Boggs]

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=659262#/career/R/pitching/2016/ALL

 

He pitched worse after being traded. I'd rather have MLB guys and be competitive than hoard prospects that never pan out.

 

Most of the everyday lineup is our farm prospects. It has worked out well.

[Bellhorn04]

Most of the everyday lineup is our farm prospects. It has worked out well.

 

Pitching prospects not so much.

[sk7326]

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=659262#/career/R/pitching/2016/ALL

 

He pitched worse after being traded. I'd rather have MLB guys and be competitive than hoard prospects that never pan out.

 

Did he? Numbers pretty similar - don't know much about whether that league is more pitcher or hitter friendly.

[mvp 78]

Pitching prospects not so much.

 

For realsies. As great as the positional prospects have been is exactly how bad the pitching prospects have been.

[illinoisredsox]

Did he? Numbers pretty similar - don't know much about whether that league is more pitcher or hitter friendly.

 

Where I live, we have a Midwest League affiliate; my observation over the years would be that the league tends to be more on the pitcher friendly side.

 

The South Atlantic League (Greenville) and the Midwest League (Fort Wayne) are considered equivalent level minor leagie (Low-A).

 

Looking at Baseball Reference, historically, the SAL and the MWL have been pretty similar in offensive numbers. This year, the SAL was slightly better offensively:

 

MWL .249/.317/.335/.672 with teams averageing 4.05 runs per game

SAL .250/.319/.372/.691 with teams averaging 4.20 runs per game

 

I wouldn't read anything into Espinosa's performance at either place. He's 18, 3.5 years younger than the average player in those leagues. This trade really can't be evaluated for at least 3 and probably 4 or 5 years.

[Dojji]

Wasn't really looking to rekindle the debate over whether we should have traded Espinoza, though it still seems like a high price to pay for a guy who had never been a starter for a full season...having to "handle him with care" down the stretch due to his having thrown more innings than ever before was an entirely predictable outcome, and we're lucky Buchholz seems to have found himself again (for now) or we'd be short a SP once again heading into October. That's before we even get into whatever underlying issue was in his medical reports that Preller withheld (it doesn't seem to have been anything severe, but we know there was something).

 

Hopefully this is just normal fatigue and nothing more.

 

Very probably is. This guy is several dozen innings above his former peak. If I had to guess, I'd say they were always going to shut him down the first time they had any serious warning signs, and knew going in that it was a possibility. The goal here is to maximize Pomeranz in 17 and 18, nd get as much as they could in the meantime in 16 without mortgaging that future.

 

(I still think DD is targeting at least a 3 year window and isn't focused all that heavily on this season)

[sk7326]

Where I live, we have a Midwest League affiliate; my observation over the years would be that the league tends to be more on the pitcher friendly side.

 

The South Atlantic League (Greenville) and the Midwest League (Fort Wayne) are considered equivalent level minor leagie (Low-A).

 

Looking at Baseball Reference, historically, the SAL and the MWL have been pretty similar in offensive numbers. This year, the SAL was slightly better offensively:

 

MWL .249/.317/.335/.672 with teams averageing 4.05 runs per game

SAL .250/.319/.372/.691 with teams averaging 4.20 runs per game

 

I wouldn't read anything into Espinosa's performance at either place. He's 18, 3.5 years younger than the average player in those leagues. This trade really can't be evaluated for at least 3 and probably 4 or 5 years.

 

that is fair - I assumed it wasn't a league like the PCL or California League where the stats are garbage.

[oldtimer]

Very probably is. This guy is several dozen innings above his former peak. If I had to guess, I'd say they were always going to shut him down the first time they had any serious warning signs, and knew going in that it was a possibility. The goal here is to maximize Pomeranz in 17 and 18, nd get as much as they could in the meantime in 16 without mortgaging that future.

 

(I still think DD is targeting at least a 3 year window and isn't focused all that heavily on this season)

 

Pomeranz is nursing some soreness in his arm and may be shutdown instead of taking a relief role.

[Jasonbay44]

Red Sox reportedly had the opportunity to rescind the trade with the Padres for Pomeranz and declined to do so.. Hmm..

[moonslav59]

Red Sox reportedly had the opportunity to rescind the trade with the Padres for Pomeranz and declined to do so.. Hmm..

 

I was against the deal in the first place, but I certainly would have and still would rescind the deal.

[Dojji]

Pomeranz is nursing some soreness in his arm and may be shutdown instead of taking a relief role.

 

Yeah that's the news I was responding to.

 

Red Sox reportedly had the opportunity to rescind the trade with the Padres for Pomeranz and declined to do so.. Hmm..

 

Oh hell naw, there's no reason to rescind that trade. Maybe force the Padres to take a lesser price and reclaim Espinosa. Maybe. But Pomeranz is a good bet to be a valuable SP in 17 and 18, no reason to rescind the trade.

[Jack Flap]

I had and still have misgivings about the original trade, but it should be no surprise to anyone that the Red Sox didn't choose to send their big trade deadline acquisition (you know, the one they went and got because they desperately needed a starter) back and face the prospect of someone like Henry Owens pitching meaningful games down the stretch. If it was a choice of rescinding the trade with the deadline already passed vs. no compensation at all, then that's asinine and the league might has well not have bothered offering.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's got a good chance to be a significant contributor in 17 and 18? You dealt a top 25 prospect to get him and you were unaware that he needed pain relievers for elbow pain at the time? Now he's on the shelf with forearm "tightness"? There's a good chance he doesn't wear a uniform at all in 17

[moonslav59]

He's got a good chance to be a significant contributor in 17 and 18? You dealt a top 25 prospect to get him and you were unaware that he needed pain relievers for elbow pain at the time? Now he's on the shelf with forearm "tightness"? There's a good chance he doesn't wear a uniform at all in 17

 

Top 15 prospect.

[Dojji]

He's got a good chance to be a significant contributor in 17 and 18? You dealt a top 25 prospect to get him and you were unaware that he needed pain relievers for elbow pain at the time? Now he's on the shelf with forearm "tightness"? There's a good chance he doesn't wear a uniform at all in 17

 

Plenty of time to panic later if it turns out he needs TJ. Right now all we know is that there is pain.

[mvp 78]

He's got a good chance to be a significant contributor in 17 and 18? You dealt a top 25 prospect to get him and you were unaware that he needed pain relievers for elbow pain at the time? Now he's on the shelf with forearm "tightness"? There's a good chance he doesn't wear a uniform at all in 17

 

Is he on the shelf? Didn't he just pitch yesterday?

[Hugh2]

If the Sox did rescind the trade then in August you have either Joe Kelly or Henry Owens making starts every 5th day. I think he'll be fine for 17' and 18' but what worries me now is the same thing that worried me back on July 14th, and that is his durability. Now that may not be an issue next year with more strength and innings built up but it was entirely reasonable to assume he would break down at the end of this year and he has.

 

He helped get us here, and he could be a big part of the future but I'm not sure how much he can be trusted going forward in 2016. This would be a really really really good time for Erod or Clay to turn it on and both have shown signs of doing so down the stretch.

 

It will be interesting to see how Drew does next year.

[moonslav59]

We should be able to rescind the trade in December.

[a700hitter]

We should be able to rescind the trade in December.

At the end of Pomeranz' current contract.

[moonslav59]

At the end of Pomeranz' current contract.

 

Even better!

[jacksonianmarch]

It was a s***** option to offer the re-do in season during a playoff run.

[moonslav59]

It was a s***** option to offer the re-do in season during a playoff run.

 

Yeah, after the trade deadline is over and the team is out of options.

 

We should get a sandwich pick or second rounder from SD, of they should offer a re-do after the season. It seems fair. The Padres would not have made the playoffs had they kept Pom, and we get back our prospect.

 

I think we could then offer Espi, Swihart, Basabe, Owens, Johnson and Devers for Quintana and Robertson.

 

Then, we sign Justin Turner or Gurriel, which would set up a possible chance to trade Moncada, if needed.

 

Maybe trade Buchholz, Barnes and Hembree for Giles.

[Jack Flap]

Reports at the time of Pomeranz being pulled from the rotation were that the case with the Padres was still a closed issue, so I wouldn't expect this to be revisited in the offseason.

 

It's kind of stunning to me for the league to basically admit that a reversal of the trade would have been justified and was on the table, but not to make any real effort to make it right. Giving the Red Sox the magnanimous option of losing a starter during a playoff race, with no way to replace him given that the deadline was already passed, is a joke for reasons already stated and almost makes me angrier than if no compensation had been offered to begin with.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Jack Flap

[Slasher9]

#FireDD

[moonslav59]

Reports at the time of Pomeranz being pulled from the rotation were that the case with the Padres was still a closed issue, so I wouldn't expect this to be revisited in the offseason.

 

It's kind of stunning to me for the league to basically admit that a reversal of the trade would have been justified and was on the table, but not to make any real effort to make it right. Giving the Red Sox the magnanimous option of losing a starter during a playoff race, with no way to replace him given that the deadline was already passed, is a joke for reasons already stated and almost makes me angrier than if no compensation had been offered to begin with.

 

I doubt they offer any relief to the Sox this offseason as well, but that doesn't make it right.

 

A message needs to be sent to other GMs that this sort of cheating will be dealt with harshly.

 

I don't see how a trade reversal hurts SD. They did not need Pom this year anyways.

 

Who knows, maybe the Sox would say no again, but we should get something in return- a 4th round pick at worst.

[SoxnCycles]

I doubt they offer any relief to the Sox this offseason as well, but that doesn't make it right.

 

A message needs to be sent to other GMs that this sort of cheating will be dealt with harshly.

 

I don't see how a trade reversal hurts SD. They did not need Pom this year anyways.

 

Who knows, maybe the Sox would say no again, but we should get something in return- a 4th round pick at worst.

 

Additional compensation would send a message.

 

How about the Sox get another prospect back.

Maybe Espinoza!

[mvp 78]

A message needs to be sent to other GMs that this sort of cheating will be dealt with harshly.

 

The only way the league can deal with this is to no longer trade with the Padres. I'm not sure what else the commissioner can do. The Sox were given an option to rescind the trade and they refused to do so.

[Bellhorn04]

The only way the league can deal with this is to no longer trade with the Padres. I'm not sure what else the commissioner can do. The Sox were given an option to rescind the trade and they refused to do so.

 

True, but since it was after the trade deadline they were screwed either way.

[Slasher9]

they should have to forfeit draft picks.