Craig Kimbrel to Boston

[Bellhorn04]

Personally, I'd rather watch competitive baseball on NESN than jerk it to soxprospects.com.

 

Good one.

[Palodios]

Prospects that were wither blocked or are years away from getting to MLB. We get it. You enjoy finishing last.

 

Personally, I'd rather watch competitive baseball on NESN than jerk it to soxprospects.com.

 

The Red Sox spent a lot of money and prospect value here. We need to wait and see if they add the pieces that will get the team a lead in the 9th inning.

[a700hitter]

Right now the team spent a lot of prospect heft for probably 0.5-1 win ... 79-83 isn't too shabby

This is just silly, because if you look at the guys that he will be replacing (not Koji or Tazawa) probably had a negative WAR. He is a far bigger improvement than you give him credit for. Your point doesn't stand. Frankly, it is an example of how statistics can be used to distort reality.

[a700hitter]

Prospects that were wither blocked or are years away from getting to MLB. We get it. You enjoy finishing last.

 

Personally, I'd rather watch competitive baseball on NESN than jerk it to soxprospects.com.

You aren't upset that DD is breaking up Ben's Red Sox?

[cp176]

I'm just deeply disturbed that I won't get to watch Margot in Portland. Obviously another losing season for us fans of the minor leagues. Just kidding - I don't care who gets the credit for it but if yo pay attention to what we have in our system, you can easily see that the youngsters we gave up are clearing space for a few players who might be even better.

[sk7326]

This is just silly, because if you look at the guys that he will be replacing (not Koji or Tazawa) probably had a negative WAR. He is a far bigger improvement than you give him credit for. Your point doesn't stand. Frankly, it is an example of how statistics can be used to distort reality.

 

I am happy we've improved the inning we have tended to not be able to get to.

 

I am happy finishing 4th for now

 

there could be smart moves to improve a lot. i will praise those.

[Bellhorn04]

I am happy we've improved the inning we have tended to not be able to get to.

 

I am happy finishing 4th for now

 

there could be smart moves to improve a lot. i will praise those.

 

It's November 15, sk. We have to think positive here IMO.

[User Name]

So sk and Kimmi are whining, while Spudboy, a700 and Dojji are all positive and s***? Is this real life?

 

Mind you, the aforementioned three are kinda misinterpreting the first two's points. Glad to have Kimbrel, but the package was outrageous. However, I am being conservative with my opinions here because of DD's long list of succesful trades. He's usually right when evaluating the prospects given up in these types of deals. We will see.

[Palodios]

I am being conservative with my opinions here because of DD's long list of succesful trades. He's usually right when evaluating the prospects given up in these types of deals. We will see.

 

As much as I have questioned the trade, none of the guys involved seem like can't-miss prospects. Margot might turn into an above average outfielder, but his 2015 season was not all that impressive.

 

The other guys have ceilings of a weak bat shortstop, a utility player and a back of the rotation starter.

[sk7326]

As much as I have questioned the trade, none of the guys involved seem like can't-miss prospects. Margot might turn into an above average outfielder, but his 2015 season was not all that impressive.

 

The other guys have ceilings of a weak bat shortstop, a utility player and a back of the rotation starter.

 

A 20 year old who hit 15 HRs with solid defense in a full season league has the ceiling of a hell of a lot more than that.

Margot got to AA in his Age 20 year with a solid offensive season and a tiny strikeout rate.

 

I am happy to have Kimbrel. I am stunned that this is what a couple of high end prospects buys so little. I think UN's point is solid about being conservative in evaluating Dombrowski - I have not put this trade into the dustbin of history. Kimbrel could be special, and he probably will be solid. We know in Detroit Dombrowski was mandated to acquire as many guys the owner has heard of, cost be damned. It seems that is the approach here. It could work - one hopes the division goes the way of the mid-2000s AL Central to help out.

[Spudboy]

For the record, I don't believe that I have said that the trade was equitable. I suspect that one top guy and the two lower level guys should have been enough. But it did not end up that way for some reason. DD seems to see more value in a stopper of a closer than 4 prospects. He is the boss making those decisions so I will cede to his judgment.

 

Again, the net is that the Sox are a better team today.

 

Weather we see Kimi's nightmare scenario where DD empties the farm and/or can not trade for THE key player because he does not have the chips remains to be scene.

 

In the meantime we should at this point have some faith and enjoy the fact that the Sox are poised to right this ship pretty soon. If not 2016, then maybe 2017.

 

Last place is not where this team should be in 2016.

[Kimmi]

Prospects that were wither blocked or are years away from getting to MLB. We get it. You enjoy finishing last.

 

Personally, I'd rather watch competitive baseball on NESN than jerk it to soxprospects.com.

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with trading those 4 prospects, or with trading prospects in general. I don't think anyone has a problem with getting Kimbrel. So statements about preferring competitive major league baseball over watching the prospects really have no relevance.

[Kimmi]

This is just silly, because if you look at the guys that he will be replacing (not Koji or Tazawa) probably had a negative WAR. He is a far bigger improvement than you give him credit for. Your point doesn't stand. Frankly, it is an example of how statistics can be used to distort reality.

 

I agree that Kimbrel is a bigger improvement than just the difference he makes over Koji. The improvement trickles all the way down the pen. That said, his point about the Sox paying a very steep price for the amount of improvement we gained does stand.

[Kimmi]

So sk and Kimmi are whining, while Spudboy, a700 and Dojji are all positive and s***? Is this real life?

 

Mind you, the aforementioned three are kinda misinterpreting the first two's points. Glad to have Kimbrel, but the package was outrageous. However, I am being conservative with my opinions here because of DD's long list of succesful trades. He's usually right when evaluating the prospects given up in these types of deals. We will see.

 

That's the thing. Most people are misinterpreting what we are saying.

[Kimmi]

So sk and Kimmi are whining, while Spudboy, a700 and Dojji are all positive and s***? Is this real life?

 

Mind you, the aforementioned three are kinda misinterpreting the first two's points. Glad to have Kimbrel, but the package was outrageous. However, I am being conservative with my opinions here because of DD's long list of succesful trades. He's usually right when evaluating the prospects given up in these types of deals. We will see.

 

Oh, and I don't whine.

[Kimmi]

For the record, I don't believe that I have said that the trade was equitable. I suspect that one top guy and the two lower level guys should have been enough. But it did not end up that way for some reason. DD seems to see more value in a stopper of a closer than 4 prospects. He is the boss making those decisions so I will cede to his judgment.

 

Again, the net is that the Sox are a better team today.

 

Weather we see Kimi's nightmare scenario where DD empties the farm and/or can not trade for THE key player because he does not have the chips remains to be scene.

 

In the meantime we should at this point have some faith and enjoy the fact that the Sox are poised to right this ship pretty soon. If not 2016, then maybe 2017.

 

Last place is not where this team should be in 2016.

 

That's all I've been saying - the trade was not equitable.

 

The offseason is far from over, so we will have to wait and see what else Dombrowski does. I have no doubt this team can be competitive this year, with a couple more key moves. As of now, I'm good with what has transpired.

[jung]

"Not liking the package that we gave up for Kimbrel has nothing to do with thinking that he will blow up in our faces. I am not concerned with how he will perform."

 

But if Kimbrel gets injured ....mark it down....that will light the match and there will be people just waiting to pounce on DD. So when I pose the possibility that it "blows up in our faces" and its consequences I am including the possibility that Kimbrel gets injured and saying I would take that outcome over waiting as well. It was still worth the risk IMO even if that happens.

[a700hitter]

I think we all agree that no one likes to pay retail prices or to overpay, but some here seem very distressed over this one transaction. There will me more moves. We are several moves away from being competitive.

[mvp 78]

I think we all agree that no one likes to pay retail prices or to overpay, but some here seem very distressed over this one transaction. There will me more moves. We are several moves away from being competitive.

 

Imagine what the outcry would have been for a prospect swap for Gray or Sale...

[cp176]

Imagine what the outcry would have been for a prospect swap for Gray or Sale...

 

So True! - Can you say goodbye to Betts, Moncada, and anybody else? (We may still have to)

[a700hitter]

So True! - Can you say goodbye to Betts, Moncada, and anybody else? (We may still have to)

That's right. We are not going to get a number 1 starter for Swihart, Owens, Marrero and Cecchini.

[cp176]

That's right. We are not going to get a number 1 starter for Swihart, Owens, Marrero and Cecchini.

 

And I am just guessing that Swihart, Margot, and Guerra would not have gotten it done either. Maybe but I really doubt it.

[Kimmi]

"Not liking the package that we gave up for Kimbrel has nothing to do with thinking that he will blow up in our faces. I am not concerned with how he will perform."

 

But if Kimbrel gets injured ....mark it down....that will light the match and there will be people just waiting to pounce on DD. So when I pose the possibility that it "blows up in our faces" and its consequences I am including the possibility that Kimbrel gets injured and saying I would take that outcome over waiting as well. It was still worth the risk IMO even if that happens.

 

There likely will be some people pouncing on Dombrowski if the Kimbrel deal blows up in our faces. I won't be one of them. I understand the rationale behind signing him, and I believe that acquiring him is a good thing. If it turns bad, that doesn't change the fact that acquiring Kimbrel was a good move on paper, even though the cost of acquiring him was too steep.

 

It's similar to the Sox getting Pablo. I didn't like the contract, and I thought there were better options, but I understood the rationale behind signing him. It hasn't worked out to date, but that doesn't change the fact the acquiring Pablo made us a better team on paper at the time and it was a good move to acquire him, even though the cost of acquring him was too steep.

[Spudboy]

That's the thing. Most people are misinterpreting what we are saying.

 

Not me.

[a700hitter]

Not me.

Me neither.

[Kimmi]

Seriously, you all need to stop with your silliness about this trading prospect business. The outcry is not about trading prospects, it's about the value of what was given up versus what we got in return.

 

Had we put together a package for Gray or Sale, there would be no outcry provided that what we gave up was not a huge overpay. Overpaying is one thing - we all know it's often necessary. A steep overpay is another.

 

For what we gave up for Kimbrel, we could have thrown in a couple more key pieces and probably gotten Sale or Gray, or at least Carrasco or Salazar, who sound like they are more "available".

[Kimmi]

Not me.

 

I think you understand what my point is, but judging by some posts, others seem to be misinterpreting.

[Kimmi]

For the record, I don't believe that I have said that the trade was equitable. I suspect that one top guy and the two lower level guys should have been enough. But it did not end up that way for some reason. DD seems to see more value in a stopper of a closer than 4 prospects. He is the boss making those decisions so I will cede to his judgment.

 

And Cherington (or Lucchino) was the boss last year. Did you cede to his judgment on the Hanley and Pablo signings?

[jacksonianmarch]

Kimmi, there is a year in the books now on those moves

[a700hitter]

For what we gave up for Kimbrel, we could have thrown in a couple more key pieces and probably gotten Sale or Gray, or at least Carrasco or Salazar, who sound like they are more "available".

What additional pieces do you think would have netted us Sale or Gray?