Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[dupree]

Something that has been bothering me all off-season with all the talks of no more long term deals that the red sox will be handing out

 

Personally i dont think because of the flops of A-thank god hes-Gon & a Carl Crawford who should of never been here in the first place, who i always thought was the replacement for Ells when boston got him... he wasnt a left fielder in Boston it was more like a move of Theo knowing he was moving on to another organization and having overpaid players to not allow one of the big market teams to go after players so he could spend in his new job and get big name guys

 

That being said we should not take away the long term deal from certain players and take a chance... if we dont we will be missing out on guys who can change the face of the franchise ... if this ownership doesnt want to spend &a take a chance then sell it to an ownership group who wants to make moves keep fans interested and think every offseason we are a contender and will make moves to contend good clubhouse guys are fun to bethe fun to be around but they dont win championships

[Spitball]

Ok but think about it, how many deals for Ellsbury get you a SP+? Not many. Most of the deals we have discussed here would send prospects along with Ellsbury in a deal for a SP. I lke this deal because it's a SP with some upside and no prospects added to Ellsbury. Now f there was someone considerably better available in a deal that sent Ells + prospects then ok, but I don't think that deal is out there right now.

 

They can still get a Pick for Bailey. He will be 27 going into his age 28 season next off season. The Sox can offer him a qualifying offer because I think it would be safe to bet someone will sign him.

 

I'd do a Bailey for Ellsbury trade in second. First, Bailey has two years before free agency. He isn't a free agent until 2015.

 

Second, he has had injuries, but hey...we are talking about a deal for Ellsbury here. Bailey was healthy all last season.

 

Third, the guy pitched like a number one at times last season. He pitched a no-hitter during the season and pitched a gem in the playoffs against eventual WS champion Giants. He allowed one hit and struck out 10 batters in seven innings of work. There have been only three other pitchers in major-league history to allow one or fewer hits and strike out at least 10 batters in a postseason game.

 

Actually, if the Red Sox could acquire Bailey, he would be in Boston for at least two years and certainly be easier to extend than Ellsbury. Btw, I have seen rumors that the Reds might extend Bailey this winter.

[SoxSport]

The long term deals thing is catching on in MLB. The data is accumulating where players start declining at 32, and some of the big tickets with long contracts are being paid as though they are a few years younger. Guys like Teixeira, for example. Happy they passed on him. It's not just the Red Sox who are holding the line. Of course, there's always some dumbass owner who will give a ridiculous contract just to get a guy. And then there's the Dodgers, who are making a shambles of Selig's surtax. He will have to push that surtax up to 200% to stop them.

[seabeachfred]

I'd do a Bailey for Ellsbury trade in second. First, Bailey has two years before free agency. He isn't a free agent until 2015.

 

Second, he has had injuries, but hey...we are talking about a deal for Ellsbury here. Bailey was healthy all last season.

 

Third, the guy pitched like a number one at times last season. He pitched a no-hitter during the season and pitched a gem in the playoffs against eventual WS champion Giants. He allowed one hit and struck out 10 batters in seven innings of work. There have been only three other pitchers in major-league history to allow one or fewer hits and strike out at least 10 batters in a postseason game.

 

Actually, if the Red Sox could acquire Bailey, he would be in Boston for at least two years and certainly be easier to extend than Ellsbury. Btw, I have seen rumors that the Reds might extend Bailey this winter.

 

Pitchers are flying off the radar screen now and all Fredo Cherington can do is dither and rest on his position signing laurels. I don't k now what the hell he's waiting for because it is as plain as the schnoz on his face that we need at least one and more likely two starting pitchers if we want to compete for something next season besides the basement. Bailey, Jackson, Lohse, somebody, damn it. We all know this; Cherington has to also. He must just bust his ass harder and get the job done----and very soon before all the prospective candidates are either signed or extended.

[SoxSport]

Everything will have to click for this team to get out of the cellar. Especially no injuries. The pitching will have to improve substantially, and so far they haven't done much to improve it. They have a few underachievers in the pitching who will have to turn around. And Lackey's coming back. Bailey will close the full year if he can avoid getting hit by the clubhouse toilet door. Bard will have to be Bard again.

 

Most importantly, overachieving teams like the Orioles have to come down to earth, the Yankees have to decline and the Jays discover a bunch of stars doesn't buy you wins. And the Rays have to finally run out of starters after dealing a couple of good ones for a hitting prospect with a partial year in AAA. In other words, luck has to turn. A lot.

[SoxSport]

Pitchers are flying off the radar screen now and all Fredo Cherington can do is dither and rest on his position signing laurels. I don't k now what the hell he's waiting for because it is as plain as the schnoz on his face that we need at least one and more likely two starting pitchers if we want to compete for something next season besides the basement. Bailey, Jackson, Lohse, somebody, damn it. We all know this; Cherington has to also. He must just bust his ass harder and get the job done----and very soon before all the prospective candidates are either signed or extended.

 

 

"Fredo" undoubtedly is getting a lot of help. He is doing what he is told to do. My feeling is they are going to have to do a lot of thumping with the pitching they have--unless one or two of their pitching prospects turn into Cinderella. The FA pitching out there right now may not be enough--or any better than what they have. I hope they don't regret moving on Hamilton--if they don't.

[Palodios]

ex1 I agree they should try and make a play for Bauer.

 

Hmmm my creative juices are flowing(this proposal is for fun)

 

Red Sox get Upton and Bauer

 

Seattle gets Ellsbury and Masterson + lower prospect

 

AZ gets Asdrubel, Smoak and 1 SP prospect(From Red Sox, Barnes/Webster/Workman)+ Brentz

 

Cleveland gets Hultzen from Seattle, Cecchini and Kalish from Sox and Wade Davis(lower Rays SP)

 

TB gets Choo + 1 mid tier prospect from Cleveland(Maybe even Perez for the BP)

 

I've been thinking along these lines, and trying to think of some out of the box solutions. There is a team out there with a very very good team, that could have gone much further in the playoffs, but their team is just too young, and their ace was put to inning limits.

 

Ellsbury + Lester + Bailey for Strasburg. Throw in a high-tier prospect or two if necessary or pick up Jayson Werth's contract.

 

Strasburg could very possibly be the the next Pedro Martinez for us, but is he worth more than a championship for the Nationals? Three all-star caliber players, plus prospects and maybe salary relief. Going deep into the playoffs means having a guy who can pitch 200 innings in the regular season and 40 more in the postseason. Is Strasburg ready for that?

[dupree]

Does anyone think the Red Sox have the trade chips to land Juston Upton?

 

AZ wants a SS... send them IGGY + Felix Doubrant + 3 prospects = Justin Upton + Trevor Bauer or Cahill

 

Sign Stephen Drew to play SS in Boston for 2 years

 

Done Deal

[Orange Juiced]

Does anyone think the Red Sox have the trade chips to land Juston Upton?

 

AZ wants a SS... send them IGGY + Felix Doubrant + 3 prospects = Justin Upton + Trevor Bauer or Cahill

 

Sign Stephen Drew to play SS in Boston for 2 years

 

Done Deal

 

What 3 prospects do you have in mind? Hint: Their names all need to begin with "B".

[dupree]

What 3 prospects do you have in mind? Hint: Their names all need to begin with "B".

 

Barnes or Xander would not go

Other than that let them have their pick

[User Name]

Something that has been bothering me all off-season with all the talks of no more long term deals that the red sox will be handing out

 

Personally i dont think because of the flops of A-thank god hes-Gon & a Carl Crawford who should of never been here in the first place, who i always thought was the replacement for Ells when boston got him... he wasnt a left fielder in Boston it was more like a move of Theo knowing he was moving on to another organization and having overpaid players to not allow one of the big market teams to go after players so he could spend in his new job and get big name guys

 

That being said we should not take away the long term deal from certain players and take a chance... if we dont we will be missing out on guys who can change the face of the franchise ... if this ownership doesnt want to spend &a take a chance then sell it to an ownership group who wants to make moves keep fans interested and think every offseason we are a contender and will make moves to contend good clubhouse guys are fun to bethe fun to be around but they dont win championships

 

There's a massive amount of assumption here that doesn't correspond with what is probably the truth: Crawford and Lackey were both Larry Lucchino deals, and his meddling was what ultimately drove Theo Epstein out of town. He was never going to be given freedom to spend with the Cubs, who are in flat-out rebuilding mode anyways. I don't know where you came up with this idea.

[User Name]

I'd do a Bailey for Ellsbury trade in second. First, Bailey has two years before free agency. He isn't a free agent until 2015.

 

Second, he has had injuries, but hey...we are talking about a deal for Ellsbury here. Bailey was healthy all last season.

 

Third, the guy pitched like a number one at times last season. He pitched a no-hitter during the season and pitched a gem in the playoffs against eventual WS champion Giants. He allowed one hit and struck out 10 batters in seven innings of work. There have been only three other pitchers in major-league history to allow one or fewer hits and strike out at least 10 batters in a postseason game.

 

Actually, if the Red Sox could acquire Bailey, he would be in Boston for at least two years and certainly be easier to extend than Ellsbury. Btw, I have seen rumors that the Reds might extend Bailey this winter.

 

I wouldn't. Bailey had flashes of brilliance last year in what has otherwise been a mediocre, injury-filled career. Let someone else be suckered by that small sample of success.

[dupree]

There's a massive amount of assumption here that doesn't correspond with what is probably the truth: Crawford and Lackey were both Larry Lucchino deals, and his meddling was what ultimately drove Theo Epstein out of town. He was never going to be given freedom to spend with the Cubs, who are in flat-out rebuilding mode anyways. I don't know where you came up with this idea.

 

Yes it is an assumption. Thats just the way i say the whole Carl Crawford deal.

We all have assumptions to why moves are made when they dont make sense.

 

Also i disagree with you that Larry's meddling is what drove him out. I believe his legacy had a part to lead Theo out. To bring a championship to chicago would put him in the history books as the man who if hired can give u championships

 

Also the reports of a stalker in Boston messing around his home & his family may had a huge part in why he left.

[jung]

A+ for active imagination:D:D

[SoxSport]

Epstein got fired--for losing the keys to the car--after he had been given them following his gorilla suit tantrum.

[User Name]

Epstein got fired--for losing the keys to the car--after he had been given them following his gorilla suit tantrum.

 

No he didn't. LL was (and still is) running the show. If you think CC and Lackey are Epstein signings, you either haven't been paying attention or don't know what you're talking about.

[SoxSport]

Does anyone think the Red Sox have the trade chips to land Juston Upton?

 

AZ wants a SS... send them IGGY + Felix Doubrant + 3 prospects = Justin Upton + Trevor Bauer or Cahill

 

Sign Stephen Drew to play SS in Boston for 2 years

 

Done Deal

 

Disconcerting to see the Phillies mentioned with Ross, Swisher and Hamilton--and nothing on the Red Sox--who have more money than the Phillies to spend at this point. Sometimes quiet in the media is a good sign--that's when deals are made. All of these guys are still in play for Boston. Swisher or Hamilton would give them more punch--especially Hamilton.

They should not be through with dealing --yet. Upton is being oversold. The FAs are better value.

[seabeachfred]

"Fredo" undoubtedly is getting a lot of help. He is doing what he is told to do. My feeling is they are going to have to do a lot of thumping with the pitching they have--unless one or two of their pitching prospects turn into Cinderella. The FA pitching out there right now may not be enough--or any better than what they have. I hope they don't regret moving on Hamilton--if they don't.

 

You laid it out pretty accurately in the post previous to the one I'm responding to. We need a lot of luck and good breaks to get back into the high life Sox Sport. Rooting for the Red Sox is like riding from the pent house to the outhouse. Just when you think things are rolling they come to a grinding halt. It looked to me that Fredo was on a role last week and t hat the momentum was on our side, but just like that he pulled in his umbrella and went into hiding. If the market is screaming three year contracts for pitchers just as it seems to be for the position players, the Red Sox are going to have to barf or get away from the sink.

 

Where I slightly disagree with you is when you say the pitching available out there may not be better than what we have now. I think it is a lot better than having to depend on guys like Franklin (can't be the Yankees) Morales, a recovering John Lackey and a Felix Doubrant who may be just a journeyman after all is said and done. Sure, Lester and Buchholz could be a solid Nos. 1 and 2 but we've been e xpecting this for the past few years and have been disappointed. I'm not getting my hopes up for those two guys to change their spots.

[User Name]

Forget about Hamilton. Get two starters and call it a day.

[jung]

Get two starters and call it a day.

 

That works for me. Unfortunately, it seems the Sox efforts at such an outcome have been frustrated by the fact that Dempster does not have a twin brother. Sox have lodged a formal protest with Mrs Dempster as this is apparently raising havoc with their intricate and tediously constructed plans.

[dupree]

Forget about Hamilton. Get two starters and call it a day.

 

Why do you say to forget about Hamilton?

 

I agree with you we need two pitchers, but do you believe that the line-up is set & has enough hitting in it without going out & getting another big bat?

[BSN07]

I can't believe how quiet the Hot Stove is. I mean not even 1 outlandish rumor on MLBTR....

[Station 13]

How does everyone feel about Andrew Bailey? He stunk high heaven last season. Always loading up the bases. If he is on the DL opening day, he should effectively and permanently loses his closing job on this team.

[dupree]

How does everyone feel about Andrew Bailey? He stunk high heaven last season. Always loading up the bases. If he is on the DL opening day, he should effectively and permanently loses his closing job on this team.

 

I agree with you. But i think with a full winter and healthy at the start of spring training and coming in and knowing the closing job is his we will see an Andrew Bailey of old.

 

But i do think that another potential closer should be signed & brought to camp to just let Bailey understand that we are not blowing games this year. My pick is Brian Wilson. The FO wants good clubhouse guys what more could you ask than Wilson. Sign him on a two year deal. 1st year let him set up the 7th or 8th. Then if Bailey sucks it up hand the ball to Wison & let him use his beard magic & close out games for us.

[Dojji]

I strongly suspect Uehara will save more games for us than Bailey.

[Bellhorn04]

How does everyone feel about Andrew Bailey? He stunk high heaven last season. Always loading up the bases. If he is on the DL opening day, he should effectively and permanently loses his closing job on this team.

 

It's a big year in Bailey's career. I would hope he has been working his butt off and is motivated and a little angry and all that good stuff.

[User Name]

Why do you say to forget about Hamilton?

 

I agree with you we need two pitchers, but do you believe that the line-up is set & has enough hitting in it without going out & getting another big bat?

 

Because he's going to be extremely expensive, he's not a need and would clog up payroll in case they need to make in-season acquisitions. Lack of flexibility has killed them before, why do it again?

 

If they're going to sign a bat, sign Swisher.

[dupree]

Because he's going to be extremely expensive, he's not a need and would clog up payroll in case they need to make in-season acquisitions. Lack of flexibility has killed them before, why do it again?

 

If they're going to sign a bat, sign Swisher.

 

Ok i understand the flexibility part & agree they need to be able to go out & get inseason pieces. Swisher is the 2nd best bat out on the market currently in FA. But with Swisher compared to Hamilton would you slot him in the 3rd spot in your line-up over a man of the caliber of Josh Hamilton who is gonna hit you 35 to 40hr and 100+ RBI while swisher will hit 20 - 25hr and 85RBIs, Hamilton is gonna cost more yes but swisher is gonna want a long term deal as well.

 

The Red Sox current payroll is at around 120 million including arbitration players + Nap and Vic. Why not go after Hamilton give him the 25 million per year. The payroll will be at 145the million last year the payroll was at 175, still 30 million less committed this year, with room to still go out and get some arms on short term deals.

[User Name]

That's without $10 million in general expenses. Calculate the salary at $130, and the arb numbers are just estimations and could go higher. And they still need at least one FA pitcher.

[dupree]

That's without $10 million in general expenses. Calculate the salary at $130, and the arb numbers are just estimations and could go higher. And they still need at least one FA pitcher.

 

General Expenses? Are you saying that the arb numbers is general expenses? Or general Expenses plus arb salaries being higher than the 130 number?

 

Ok at 130 add Hamilton at 25 = 155million

189 minus 155 = 34 million to stay under the luxury tax

 

Hamilton at 25 per year for 5 or Swisher at 18 per year for 5

Id take Hamilton anyday. 7million is spliting hairs but the 10+ hrs and 15+ RBIs could mean five or six more wins per year compared to Swisher. Also Hamilton will make Pedoria Nap and Ortiz #s better because pitchers are going to pitch around Hamilton than they would Swisher. In the competitive AL East it has come down to soo few games apart of the last couple of years and 2013 competition is even tougher the guy who is gonna help the most is who they should get.