Red Sox will regret not acquiring a starter at the deadline

[notin]

2 minutes ago, southpaw777 said:

That’s all I heard…haha, we got him when the NYY wanted him. We stopped Adley from going to NY.

We had the chance to get a starter and have less worries than we have now and we didn’t. Breslow chose a catcher. 

 

 

I don’t think starter was as high on Breslow’s list as catcher.  I agree the Sox needed one and figured Tolle and Bennett would either be limited or (temporarily) shut down.  Maybe Breslow has more faith in Holobetz and Paez than I have.

[Hugh2]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

I don’t think starter was as high on Breslow’s list as catcher.  I agree the Sox needed one and figured Tolle and Bennett would either be limited or (temporarily) shut down.  Maybe Breslow has more faith in Holobetz and Paez than I have.

Catcher might have been a better long term roster fit, but they needed a pitcher more this year. 

It also doens't help that Adley hasn't hit much but I think he will.

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, notin said:

I seriously doubt the Sox acquired Rutschman for any other reason.  Do people think his plan was to grab every RHH catcher and block the Yankees?

People have spoken a lot about the "premium" it took to keep him away from the Yankees. You trade for Adley because you want him. It should have nothing to do with the Yankees. 

[mvp 78]

19 minutes ago, southpaw777 said:

That’s all I heard…haha, we got him when the NYY wanted him. We stopped Adley from going to NY.

We had the chance to get a starter and have less worries than we have now and we didn’t. Breslow chose a catcher. 

Sox could have matched that Perralta deal. At least he didn't try to trade for May again.

[Hugh2]

27 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Who cares about that TBH? Get a guy because you want him. Don't pay extra to keep him away from the Bronx.

I'm sure the Red Sox paid extra to keep him away from the Bronx just like any team pays extra to get a guy over anyone else who is bidding for them.  NY plays in the same division as BALT just like us, the Orioles weren't doing them any favors.  

[notin]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

People have spoken a lot about the "premium" it took to keep him away from the Yankees. You trade for Adley because you want him. It should have nothing to do with the Yankees. 

And that applies to every Sox trade ever…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, southpaw777 said:

What pitchers did he add that are going to help us with the playoffs this year? don’t say Bennett cause he’s about done. And Sandoval will probably have his issues before the years over.

How about our best 2 of 3 pitchers?

Gray & Suarez.

Factoring in the idea that we lost our ace (Crochet,) our #3/4 (Houck- known) and #5/7 (Crawford) and #6/8 (Oviedo) and #7/9 Early.

I think he did fine.

Our staff looked way better on opening day than the one on the playoff 2025 team. Quality and quantity. To me, the improvement is clear. The injuries hurt, but he planned on enough to keep us in it, despite losing 5-6 of our top 9-11 pitchers.

The top 3 plan was way better (playoffs) Crochet got hurt,

The 4-6 were way better, but too bad we needed to go to Tolle, Early & Bennett earlier than we hoped.

The 7-10 were way better, and we needed them all, since 3 (Houck, Crawford & Oviedo) have yet to start a game, and Crochet has missed most of the year. Bello developed the yips, but I can't see blaming Brez for that.

Our starter depth is why we are still in the race.

Tolle, Bennett, Sandoval and Early were depth.

[southpaw777]

2 hours ago, notin said:

I don’t think starter was as high on Breslow’s list as catcher.  I agree the Sox needed one and figured Tolle and Bennett would either be limited or (temporarily) shut down.  Maybe Breslow has more faith in Holobetz and Paez than I have.

Yes, that’s what Breslow wanted. He should have listened to me…Obviously 😜

[southpaw777]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Sox could have matched that Perralta deal. At least he didn't try to trade for May again.

I’ll give him that. I’d rather nobody than May again.

there were a few mid level guys we could have got if I remember.  

[southpaw777]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

How about our best 2 of 3 pitchers?

Gray & Suarez.

Factoring in the idea that we lost our ace (Crochet,) our #3/4 (Houck- known) and #5/7 (Crawford) and #6/8 (Oviedo) and #7/9 Early.

I think he did fine.

Our staff looked way better on opening day than the one on the playoff 2025 team. Quality and quantity. To me, the improvement is clear. The injuries hurt, but he planned on enough to keep us in it, despite losing 5-6 of our top 9-11 pitchers.

The top 3 plan was way better (playoffs) Crochet got hurt,

The 4-6 were way better, but too bad we needed to go to Tolle, Early & Bennett earlier than we hoped.

The 7-10 were way better, and we needed them all, since 3 (Houck, Crawford & Oviedo) have yet to start a game, and Crochet has missed most of the year. Bello developed the yips, but I can't see blaming Brez for that.

Our starter depth is why we are still in the race.

Tolle, Bennett, Sandoval and Early were depth.

Not what I meant. I meant what pitchers did we acquire to replace the ones we let go. All the depth. Who replaced Early? Was he relying on a bunch of guys who have been injured to come back strong this year? Houck Sandoval and Crawford should not have been relied on until they proved they were 100% healthy. 
he got rid of a half dozen guys and then Early. Oviedo, not his fault, but still yet another arm needing to be replaced that wasn’t. Some trades were good as we discussed but some made no sense. It wouldn’t have been my plan going into this season.

bottom line is we needed another starter at the deadline with all the issues/concerns in our rotation. He kicked the pooch. 

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, southpaw777 said:

Not what I meant. I meant what pitchers did we acquire to replace the ones we let go. All the depth. Who replaced Early? Was he relying on a bunch of guys who have been injured to come back strong this year? Houck Sandoval and Crawford should not have been relied on until they proved they were 100% healthy. 
he got rid of a half dozen guys and then Early. Oviedo, not his fault, but still yet another arm needing to be replaced that wasn’t. Some trades were good as we discussed but some made no sense. It wouldn’t have been my plan going into this season.

bottom line is we needed another starter at the deadline with all the issues/concerns in our rotation. He kicked the pooch. 

Pitching will be more, and more important as the season winds down, and especially in the postseason.

[notin]

19 minutes ago, southpaw777 said:

Yes, that’s what Breslow wanted. He should have listened to me…Obviously 😜

I think he listens to me far too often…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, notin said:

And that applies to every Sox trade ever…

Like when the Yankees only traded for ARod because Boone got hurt playing winter hoop?

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, southpaw777 said:

Not what I meant. I meant what pitchers did we acquire to replace the ones we let go.

I think we let those guys go, because we added Gray, Suarez & Bennett. They DID replace Fitts, Clarke, Perales, and on and on.

We also added Oviedo, who got hurt, but it was an add.

Holobetz is probably the next SP'er called up, with Ziehl maybe 2nd or 3rd. Both were traded for.

Look at all Brez's trades: they involved getting and giving up starters.

The only ones that count for the remainder of 2026 are Harrison and Drohan- not Priester or likely no Early.

The adds were Gray, Suarez, Bennet (yes, they count) plus Sandoval, Tolle (Brez draftee) Holobetz, Ziehl.

Okay, Bennett may not be a playoff pitcher, but why is Drohan or Harrison one? You can't change the criteria on who counts as an add or what makes someone playoff available.

[notin]

40 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Like when the Yankees only traded for ARod because Boone got hurt playing winter hoop?

Yea, like that Sox trade…

[moonslav59]

I'll do a deep dive on Brez's starting pitchers added and subtracted after this more simple look:

Let's not argue about who was our #1-2-3...but here is a rough estimate of what we have lost to injury from just the rotation:

#1 Crochet (started 6 of 33 GS)

#2 Suarez (started 21 of 23 GS)

#4-5 Houck (0 of 32- knew was out all year)

#5-6 Crawford (0-32)

#6-7 Oviedo (0 -??? GS)

#7-8 Sandoval (started 7 of 23, so far,)

#8-9 Early (started 17 of 23 before going on IL then was traded)

Plus, Bello gets the starter yips and starts only 8 games.

You can argue Tolle was the #5, but if everyone was healthy he would not have been top 5 or even 6. In fact Early got the call before him, and since Early, Tolle and Bennett were rookies, we'd likely want to avoid starting them in April. The fact is, we lost our ace after April 25th, Bello got the yips, and we have basically gone most of the season wit the rotational depth filling 3 of 5 slots.

What results would be expected of a rotation under these circumstances? This?

6th ib FWAR

4th in FIP

7th in ERA- (10th in ERA)

For the life of me, I will never understand anyone saying the team weakness was a lack of rotational depth.

Even more stunning are these numbers after Crochet went on the IL:

2nd fWAR

1st FIP

4th ERA- (4th ERA)

We had to go to the rookies too early, and 1-2 might be running out of steam, but let's get real, here. One of the top strengths of this team were starter quality and starter depth.

Nobody can convince me otherwise.

I'd rather have Durbin, Monasterio & Seigler than Harrison, Drohan and DHam. Dobbins is doing okay, but anyone want to give Contreras back for him? Priester and Early are on the IL, with Priester being full season.

This is not to say Brez made no mistakes or is 100% on all trades, signings, draft picks and roster decisions, but building up the staff has not been a weak area. One might argue he's given up too much prospect SP'ers, but all the additions but Gray have many years of control and they look very high quality.

Specific adds and subtractions to come...

[southpaw777]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I think we let those guys go, because we added Gray, Suarez & Bennett. They DID replace Fitts, Clarke, Perales, and on and on.

We also added Oviedo, who got hurt, but it was an add.

Holobetz is probably the next SP'er called up, with Ziehl maybe 2nd or 3rd. Both were traded for.

Look at all Brez's trades: they involved getting and giving up starters.

The only ones that count for the remainder of 2026 are Harrison and Drohan- not Priester or likely no Early.

The adds were Gray, Suarez, Bennet (yes, they count) plus Sandoval, Tolle (Brez draftee) Holobetz, Ziehl.

Okay, Bennett may not be a playoff pitcher, but why is Drohan or Harrison one? You can't change the criteria on who counts as an add or what makes someone playoff available.

That’s why we needed a starter at the deadline. At least Harrison and Drohan were MLB ready. Nobody we have really is anymore. They just made it to AAA. Those two were at least ready for the show or in Harrison’s case, already had some time.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, southpaw777 said:

That’s why we needed a starter at the deadline. At least Harrison and Drohan were MLB ready. Nobody we have really is anymore. They just made it to AAA. Those two were at least ready for the show or in Harrison’s case, already had some time.

Why wouldn't Harrison and Drohan hit a wall by September?

Only our young pitchers suffer from that malody?

Had we just has one less injury, or maybe even Bello not getting the yips, the young pitchers would not have pitched as much.

While that might be a good thing for them being ready for the show, we kinds needed their results to get us to the show.

 

 

[southpaw777]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Why wouldn't Harrison and Drohan hit a wall by September?

Only our young pitchers suffer from that malody?

Had we just has one less injury, or maybe even Bello not getting the yips, the young pitchers would not have pitched as much.

While that might be a good thing for them being ready for the show, we kinds needed their results to get us to the show.

 

 

Only Bennett. Maybe Tolle, but he should be ok. Might have just see where he’s at come the end of September.

Harrison had plenty of IP so he would be fine. Drohan may have hit one around the same time as Tolle. 
bennett had TJS so that’s obvious.

[moonslav59]

2026 SP'ers

Brez Acquired:

Crochet (trade) 6 GS

Gray (trade) 23

Suarez (FA) 21

Tolle (draftee) 20

Bennett (trade) 14

Sandoval (FA) 7

Oviedo (trade) 0
Rivera 3

(Holobetz & Ziel in AAA)

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Inherited:

Early 17

Bello 8

Houck 0

Crawford 0

(Paez & Wehunt in AAA)

__________________

2025

Brez: Crochet 32, Giolito 26, Buehler 22, Fitts 10, Newcomb5, DMay 5, Tolle 3, Harrison 2, Criswell & De Leon 1

Inherited: Bello 28, Dobbins 11, Houck 9, Early 4

__________________________

Pitcher moves (signings, tradings, waivers, drafted, rule 5) I left off several minor league adds.

Starting Pitchers Acquired: Crochet, Suarez, Gray, Tolle, Bennett, Sandoval, Rivera,  Buehler, D May/- Holobetz, Ziehl, Valera, Delzine, Phillips, D Brown, LaFavor, Finley, Davenport, Lanman, Adetuyl, Jose Bello

SP'ers Acquired then traded: Harrison, Fitts, Priester, Newcomb, Criswell, Sandlin, Hicks/ -Eyanson, Whitherspoon, Clarke, Fajardo, Aita

SP'er lost and reacquired: Paez

SP'ers Traded away: Early (IL,) Drohan, Dobbins/ -Perales, Travieso, Uberstine, Ingrassia

Not every one of these moves was a win, but I think it is clear we added more quality and more quality depth under Brez.

The state of the pitching on the farm has been hurt, recently, but due more to promotions than trades of top prospects- other than Eyanson.

These were the top pitching prospects in fall 2023:

7 Perales (>Bennett)

9 Wikelman (> small part of Crochet add)

15 Drohan (>part of Durbin & Co adds)

20 Monegro

23 Dobbins (>part of Contreras add)

24 ERC (>Narvaez trade)

27 Mata

I'm not sure it's worse now than ten.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, southpaw777 said:

Only Bennett. Maybe Tolle, but he should be ok. Might have just see where he’s at come the end of September.

Harrison had plenty of IP so he would be fine. Drohan may have hit one around the same time as Tolle. 
bennett had TJS so that’s obvious.

Bennet's surgery was 2023, so I'm not sure he's toast.

Harrison is 2 years younger than Drohan and the same age as Bennett.

I'm not so sure Harrison is ready to be a horse. He was jerked to the pen and back a lot. He's gone between 76 and 124 IP the last 3 years, combining farm and MLB. He's at 93, so he should be okay for 30-40 more IP, but a deep playoff run?

[southpaw777]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Bennet's surgery was 2023, so I'm not sure he's toast.

Harrison is 2 years younger than Drohan and the same age as Bennett.

I'm not so sure Harrison is ready to be a horse. He was jerked to the pen and back a lot. He's gone between 76 and 124 IP the last 3 years, combining farm and MLB. He's at 93, so he should be okay for 30-40 more IP, but a deep playoff run?

Who said anything about Harrison being a horse?
All these guys were nothing but depth for me.. if any of them worked out in the rotation, then great, but they were depth in my eyes. That’s it. He got rid of a bunch of healthy arms and relied on a bunch of often injured players to carry this team through this year and every one of them got hurt again. He had a chance to get a starter at the deadline and he failed instead he overpaid for a catcher.

he should have got a starter with those players. I guarantee a starter would have helped this team more than Adley will.

 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, southpaw777 said:

Who said anything about Harrison being a horse?
All these guys were nothing but depth for me.. if any of them worked out in the rotation, then great, but they were depth in my eyes. That’s it. He got rid of a bunch of healthy arms and relied on a bunch of often injured players to carry this team through this year and every one of them got hurt again. He had a chance to get a starter at the deadline and he failed instead he overpaid for a catcher.

he should have got a starter with those players. I guarantee a starter would have helped this team more than Adley will.

 

I've agreed all along we shoulda gotten a SP'er at the deadline.

I'm arguing your point that Brez slacked on rotation depth by trading away too many starters. 

The rate of immediate success from those starters is not good, and the best one of the group, Early, has yet to pitch for his new team and may not all year.

The amount of quality pitchers on the 26 and 40 improved.

The amount of quality depth on the 40 improved.

You've been ily critical of Brez not addin enough dept, wen e mit have led all GMs in additions.  (My keyboard is missin some letters....)

[southpaw777]

43 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I've agreed all along we shoulda gotten a SP'er at the deadline.

I'm arguing your point that Brez slacked on rotation depth by trading away too many starters. 

The rate of immediate success from those starters is not good, and the best one of the group, Early, has yet to pitch for his new team and may not all year.

The amount of quality pitchers on the 26 and 40 improved.

The amount of quality depth on the 40 improved.

You've been ily critical of Brez not addin enough dept, wen e mit have led all GMs in additions.  (My keyboard is missin some letters....)

no worries, I get what you’re saying..

I mean, I admit I can go a bit overboard sometimes. Though my point is valid.
a lot of times we seem to agree but come at it from different directions and sometimes it seems there’s a disagreement when there is not much of one at all. 
if everything improved so much then how come we’re in this situation? We can say injuries and that would be valid. We can also say that there is not enough MLb ready starters in the org. Right now that can help out because he traded all of them. Also valid. We can also say it was a dumb idea to rely totally on often injured guys like Sandy Houck Oviedo and Crawford like he did. Valid. 

main complaint from me that we both agree on (I think)🤔 

is that we could have used a starter more than a catcher for a playoff run. It seemed he didn’t even bother with it much which was odd to me. If we have a lockout then that Adley deal is going to look bad. I’m not as confident going into the playoffs as I was.
 

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, southpaw777 said:

no worries, I get what you’re saying..

I mean, I admit I can go a bit overboard sometimes. Though my point is valid.
a lot of times we seem to agree but come at it from different directions and sometimes it seems there’s a disagreement when there is not much of one at all. 
if everything improved so much then how come we’re in this situation? We can say injuries and that would be valid. We can also say that there is not enough MLb ready starters in the org. Right now that can help out because he traded all of them. Also valid. We can also say it was a dumb idea to rely totally on often injured guys like Sandy Houck Oviedo and Crawford like he did. Valid. 

main complaint from me that we both agree on (I think)🤔 

is that we could have used a starter more than a catcher for a playoff run. It seemed he didn’t even bother with it much which was odd to me. If we have a lockout then that Adley deal is going to look bad. I’m not as confident going into the playoffs as I was.
 

We shouldn't have had to add a pitcher at the deadline with all the focus put on building up the pitching staff, but it is what it is. We lost 5 guys, counting Belloyippo to the pen.

[southpaw777]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We shouldn't have had to add a pitcher at the deadline with all the focus put on building up the pitching staff, but it is what it is. We lost 5 guys, counting Belloyippo to the pen.

Very true. I hope we can make this work somehow.