Red Sox Sign 3B, 2B, SS, Isiah Kiner-Falefa

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Again, don't disagree. I reckon he'd take the Gray trade back now if he could, and just send a bit extra and no trade clause to Bregman. We'd certainly be in better shape for my money. 

That looks like the biggest what if of this winter. We'd also still have Fitts and Clarke to trade for someone else.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Again, don't disagree. I reckon he'd take the Gray trade back now if he could, and just send a bit extra and no trade clause to Bregman. We'd certainly be in better shape for my money. 

I still like the Gray trade, but I'm probably the most overly optimistic guy on Gray here. Fitts was close to his ceiling in this org and didn't develop the way Tolle or Early did. Maybe the Cards can get more out of him. Clarke barely pitched last season and he seems like more of a bullpen arm to me than a starter. I didn't have a problem with the trade. 

If Breslow wanted, he could still manufacture a trade of prospects to acquire Paredes or someone else. I think he just might not want to for some reason. 

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'm clearly not inside Breslow's head, but a pivot from Bregman to Ranger really didn't fix the roster issues. It makes the pitching much better, but none of us really see the path forward for the IF. It looks no different than the question marks we've seen since '23. 

Im not sure it makes the pitching much better.  I think we went from A+ rotation to A+ rotation.  I have more faith in both Tolle and Early than I do in Mayer.  Cuz Mayer hasnt put the work in at the gym and its been a problem.  He says hes open to it this year, but for everyone that goes to the gym in January (all the new years resolution people), by March only a fraction of them are still going.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

the 1992 Sox scored just 599 runs -the fewest since 1943 and one of the lowest totals ever. we may challenge that this year.

They scored 786 last year. No way do they drop 200 runs even if IKF is a fulltime starter. So much would have to go wrong for them to get there. 

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

the 1992 Sox scored just 599 runs -the fewest since 1943 and one of the lowest totals ever. we may challenge that this year.

No way we will be close to that.

[Hitch]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I still like the Gray trade, but I'm probably the most overly optimistic guy on Gray here. Fitts was close to his ceiling in this org and didn't develop the way Tolle or Early did. Maybe the Cards can get more out of him. Clarke barely pitched last season and he seems like more of a bullpen arm to me than a starter. I didn't have a problem with the trade. 

If Breslow wanted, he could still manufacture a trade of prospects to acquire Paredes or someone else. I think he just might not want to for some reason. 

I'm with you on Gray in a vacuum. But I'd just rather that money was spent on the offence (and us still signing Ranger). 

I'd be very curious to see what Houston want for the Paredes. 

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

I still like the Gray trade, but I'm probably the most overly optimistic guy on Gray here. Fitts was close to his ceiling in this org and didn't develop the way Tolle or Early did. Maybe the Cards can get more out of him. Clarke barely pitched last season and he seems like more of a bullpen arm to me than a starter. I didn't have a problem with the trade. 

If Breslow wanted, he could still manufacture a trade of prospects to acquire Paredes or someone else. I think he just might not want to for some reason. 

I like Crochet, Gray, Suarez, Bello, Tolle, Early, Crawford, Oviedo....Not as much Sandoval or Harrison but it doesnt mean I dont think they cant be #5 starters.

If you can keep this intact and fix the offense great , but 1. I dont think Paredes alone is enough, certainly not if its one of our best 4 bats going the other way 2. Im expecting injuries and even fully healthy our offense looks shaky 3. Im not sure Breslow can jsut go get paredes for prospects at any given time.  The astros have to say yes, and I dont think they are willing to give you paredes for prospects

[moonslav59]

Who could be the third team that gives HOU the OF'er they need, takes our prospects or pitchers and we get Paredes?

We aren't giving them Abreu, and they don't want Duran, apparently, or they won't add players like King, I suppose.

We probably can't throw money into the deal as Paredes is due just over $9M, so the idea of maybe Reynolds plus cash to HOU could not be with our money.

Any ideas?

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

I like Crochet, Gray, Suarez, Bello, Tolle, Early, Crawford, Oviedo....Not as much Sandoval or Harrison but it doesnt mean I dont think they cant be #5 starters.

If you can keep this intact and fix the offense great , but 1. I dont think Paredes alone is enough, certainly not if its one of our best 4 bats going the other way 2. Im expecting injuries and even fully healthy our offense looks shaky 3. Im not sure Breslow can jsut go get paredes for prospects at any given time.  The astros have to say yes, and I dont think they are willing to give you paredes for prospects

It can't be Abreu for Paredes, even if they give us King, Sousa or Janek. It's a sideways move on O, despite balancing the L-R issue.

HOU won't trade Paredes for prospects, unless it's like Tolle or Early, but I'm not sure they want pitching or like ours.

[Hitch]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Who could be the third team that gives HOU the OF'er they need, takes our prospects or pitchers and we get Paredes?

We aren't giving them Abreu, and they don't want Duran, apparently, or they won't add players like King, I suppose.

We probably can't throw money into the deal as Paredes is due just over $9M, so the idea of maybe Reynolds plus cash to HOU could not be with our money.

Any ideas?

This is why it's difficult. No way I'm sending them Abreu unless there's something BIG coming back our way with Paredes. And if it is Duran, I want something tasty back with him, too, but Houston don't seem interested in Duran. Hence the apparent stalemate. 

[Michigan Adam2]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Who could be the third team that gives HOU the OF'er they need, takes our prospects or pitchers and we get Paredes?

We aren't giving them Abreu, and they don't want Duran, apparently, or they won't add players like King, I suppose.

We probably can't throw money into the deal as Paredes is due just over $9M, so the idea of maybe Reynolds plus cash to HOU could not be with our money.

Any ideas?

It's an impossible situation. We can't cut offense trying to get offense. Probably our weakest everyday offensive player is cedanne. Not sure what his market would be in comparison to abreau or durran. I'd be more willing to trade cedanne to try to improve the offense without killing the D as the step down to durran in center isn't as large as the step up in the offense we could potentially get, especially if we were willing to add some strong prospects.

[mvp 78]

 

[drewski6]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

One great aspect of building up the pitching from top to bottom is that teams often get desperate for pitching and will overpay for one by more than they would for a bat. That means Brez has to be willing to trade pitching.

Looking at his record with the Sox, that has NOT been an issue, and we can start with the Sale trade, mention Priester and end with this winter, where he's traded about a dozen MLB pitchers + top 12 pitching prospects- often for other pitchers, but still.

If he wakes up and smells the coffee, even if it's just Vanilla latte, maybe he trades from our pitching depth and adds a real 2B/3Bman, soon. At this point, we can't afford to trade offense like Duran or Abreu.

Ideally, we find a way to dump Masa and trade from pitching depth for Paredes, Shaw or even 1 year of Hoerner. Baty would not be horrible. With IK on board, maybe adding Vientos would give our offense a boost, but he's got DH or 1B written all over him. (No Masa might give him some time there, though.)

I think the only second baseman who could come close to fixing the offense is marte.  Paredes helps, but he doesnt instantly alleviate my worries about the offense. Hoerner is a glove first player and people like Baty and Vientos because they think theyd be easy to acquire and cheap.  Not to imply Im dead set against any of these acquisitions.

The names that I would prefer to go after are like Rooker, Seager, Jose Ramirez, Juner Caminero, James Wood, Alvarez, Devers (lol)

I just looked at a fantasy baseball average draft place (and I know fantasy isnt a great reflection, but I think this is telling):

Anthony - seventh round (assuming 10 team league)
Duran - ninth round
Story - twelfth round
Cedanne - thirteenth round
Contreras - 19th round
Abreu - 23rd round

Our highest ranked bat is Anthony in the 60s.

[mvp 78]

Hoerner has been above 100 OPS+ every season since 2021. Last season, the Sox OPS'd only 680 at 2b. He should easily clear that by 30 points. 

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Hoerner has been above 100 OPS+ every season since 2021. Last season, the Sox OPS'd only 680 at 2b. He should easily clear that by 30 points. 

Isnt "100" league average?

[drewski6]

Im not trying to get an average hitter who can play an elite 2b, Im trying to get an elite hitter, and I do not feel like I have the luxury of caring about where they play.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

Isnt "100" league average?

Yup and it's way better than what the Sox had last year or '24 or '23. 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

Im not trying to get an average hitter who can play an elite 2b, Im trying to get an elite hitter, and I do not feel like I have the luxury of caring about where they play.

Well, I don't think that's going to happen at this point. 

[mvp 78]

[Old Red]

32 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They scored 786 last year. No way do they drop 200 runs even if IKF is a fulltime starter. So much would have to go wrong for them to get there. 

Those 786 runs scored last year was a little misleading. To many games of not scoring much at all.

[UtahSox]

25 minutes ago, Hitch said:

This is why it's difficult. No way I'm sending them Abreu unless there's something BIG coming back our way with Paredes. And if it is Duran, I want something tasty back with him, too, but Houston don't seem interested in Duran. Hence the apparent stalemate. 

That’s why I think the Cubs are the better trade partner. I think the cubs value pitching more than Astros… Plus the fact Paredes was awful vs LHP last year.
 

Hoerner or Shaw are much better vs LHP, yet don’t hit HR’s like Paredes. So the trade off is real. 

[drewski6]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Well, I don't think that's going to happen at this point. 

well I have high high hopes for a living

[drewski6]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

classic

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, Hitch said:

This is why it's difficult. No way I'm sending them Abreu unless there's something BIG coming back our way with Paredes. And if it is Duran, I want something tasty back with him, too, but Houston don't seem interested in Duran. Hence the apparent stalemate. 

I used to think I'd trade Abreu for Paredes, King and Janek, but I'm not sure that's enough. It's a push on O, although it helps balance the L-R thing. King would help the pen, but more than Crawford or Harrison can? IDK.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

That’s why I think the Cubs are the better trade partner. I think the cubs value pitching more than Astros… Plus the fact Paredes was awful vs LHP last year.
 

Hoerner or Shaw are much better vs LHP, yet don’t hit HR’s like Paredes. So the trade off is real. 

Paredes hit .691 v LHPs, last year, but I think that was an outlier. It was only 71 PAs. He's .805 career and is entering prime, now. Shaw hit .808 vs LHPs in '24. Hoerner is career .788 v L.

The Cubs may be a better match, but Hoerner has just one year remaining and Shaw is sort of an unknown on offense.

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

Hoerner or Shaw are much better vs LHP, yet don’t hit HR’s like Paredes. So the trade off is real. 

One of these two might be more likely than finding a return to HOU for Paredes.

I'd be happy with any of these three, but we cannot give up Duran or Abreu, and neither team is looking for a star for prospects deal.

I keep coming back to who can be the third team?

[Hitch]

43 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

 

That's....interesting.

[Hitch]

30 minutes ago, UtahSox said:

That’s why I think the Cubs are the better trade partner. I think the cubs value pitching more than Astros… Plus the fact Paredes was awful vs LHP last year.
 

Hoerner or Shaw are much better vs LHP, yet don’t hit HR’s like Paredes. So the trade off is real. 

I get the feeling the Cubs ask for Horner might be even higher than the Astros' for Paredes.

It's a tough market for trades right now. Using one Bres' favourite words, he is going to have to get uncomfortable. 

[JoeBrady]

2 hours ago, Hitch said:

I don't disagree, but almost all the strength was on the offence side of things. It needed correcting - they may have gone too far, we'll see. 

This years draft - the same happens, we have a problem.

It wasn't that long ago that the FO got hammered for not drafting pitching.

[notin]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd rather have IKF as a starter for 2 months than Hamilton. I just don't look forward to everyone on here butchering the spelling of his name. 

Just spell it IKF…