Sox to acquire Sonny Gray

[Hugh2]

2 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

It’s really pretty basic. On average he allowed over 4 runs per game. Maybe he’ll be an upgrade but he’s definitely not the #2 SP we still need.

Nothing, absolutely nothing is basic.

[Behindenemylines]

57 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

So, it’s not just about spending the money, it’s about making the really good signing first?

that’s like my children yelling at me because I didn’t give them the nice present to open up first on Christmas morning.

we are not even a month removed from the World Series.  Relax and see what they do

I agree. Still early in the off season. The number 2 may not be on the roster until the 2026 trade deadline. Pushes Gray to number 3 for a playoff run.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Behindenemylines said:

Gray signed for just one year may be the plan. The more you look into his numbers the better he looks, The Sox have a hand full of young arms that are knocking on the door (Tolle, Witherspoon, Early Perales, and Dobbins) and may need Gray for just one season. Any free agent signing would have tied the Sox to an aging arm that would block some of the young arms, They can revisit other trade possibilities for starting pitchers after they take care of their position player needs with less stress on them, which could have forced them to over pay with prospect capital,

With a $10M buyout, he may be back for 2027 (at $30M.) 

It's "only" $20M more.

[FredLynn]

12 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Nothing, absolutely nothing is basic.

Time will tell. My guess is that he’ll end up in the 4.50 ERA range and spend a significant amount of time on the IL. 
Thats what happens when the team (AGAIN) tries to pass off a second rate player as a rose. 
Sox fans aren’t that stupid.

[FredLynn]

11 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

I agree. Still early in the off season. The number 2 may not be on the roster until the 2026 trade deadline. Pushes Gray to number 3 for a playoff run.

They don’t need a #2 for half the season. They need one for the whole season. 

[notin]

25 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

It’s really pretty basic. On average he allowed over 4 runs per game. Maybe he’ll be an upgrade but he’s definitely not the #2 SP we still need.

Not what those numbers really mean.

ERA is per 9 IP, not game. But more important, it depends on defense and ballpark and more than just pitcher ability.

With FIP (fielding independent pitching) Gray was 11th in MLB with a 3.39 and 7th in xFIP with a 3.07…

[Behindenemylines]

16 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

They don’t need a #2 for half the season. They need one for the whole season. 

In 2025 they didn't need the true number 2 starter until the playoffs. All I was saying if the right deal doesn't happen the remainder of this off season ( don't want them robbed of too many prospects) , then they still have until 2026 deadline to trade for a number 2.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

In 2025 they didn't need the true number 2 starter until the playoffs. All I was saying if the right deal doesn't happen the remainder of this off season ( don't want them robbed of too many prospects) , then they still have until 2026 deadline to trade for a number 2.

The Red Sox are going to make a big move at the deadline?🤭🤫

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

I guess I’m just tired of the 1-2 years rentals.

I think bres-slow is waiting for the home grown reinforcements to arrive. 
 

hang’em Chaim did not use high draft picks on pitching very often ! 

[FredLynn]

5 hours ago, notin said:

Not what those numbers really mean.

ERA is per 9 IP, not game. But more important, it depends on defense and ballpark and more than just pitcher ability.

With FIP (fielding independent pitching) Gray was 11th in MLB with a 3.39 and 7th in xFIP with a 3.07…

He surrendered over four runs per NINE INNINGS. I know what ERA means. And the other metrics-which are calculated based on some assumptions. ERA is based strictly on numbers, not calculations and assumptions. It’s a better metric for that reason. 
Gray isn’t a #2 SP. He’s a shortcut, a weed being passed off as a rose. You watch: they’ll do the same thing with our need for a bat. 
This teams management stinks.

[FredLynn]

This sums it up nicely. Very accurate:

 

”While Gray is not the number two starter fans have dreamed of pairing with ace Garrett Crochet, he is a dependable arm for a rotation”

 

From an article on this forum ….

[JoeBrady]

On 11/26/2025 at 9:52 PM, FredLynn said:

And BTW, the Jays just signed a real #2. Cease is off the boards. Just signed with Toronto. I have a sneaking suspicion that our idiot management team thinks Gray is just fine behind Crochet. He isn't. Gray is fine behind Crochet and ?? and Bello. 

Here we go again. Dumpster diving.

I don't care what his PROJECTIONS are. I care what he has done. 

If you don't care about projections, then why would you think Cease is better than Gray?  Gray had a better ERA, much better K/W, better record, much better Whip, more IPs, more IP/GS.  If you want to go by 2025 stats, then Gray is better.  If you want to go by FG projections, then Gray is better.  But I think you need to choose one set of criteria.

[JoeBrady]

12 hours ago, FredLynn said:

A #2 SP is a pitcher who is very good fairly consistently but not as good as a #1 or an ace. 
Put another way a #2 SP is what Gray is not. 
 

That makes even less sense.  Gray is 10x more consistent than Cease.  Cease has had an ERA of 4.55 or higher in two of the last three seasons.  Gray hasn't had an ERA that high since 2018.  Maybe explain what the consistency is.

[JoeBrady]

11 hours ago, FredLynn said:

I’m not going to do the research necessary to find out who is available. That’s not my job. It’s the job of management to make those inquiries and put a competitive team on the field. Last year was an improvement but we clearly weren’t good enough to compete for a ring. They have to keep moving forward by addressing the holes on the roster. Their track record for doing that hasn’t been good. 

That's a copout.  You want to criticize for not having done something that you have no idea of what you even want.

[JoeBrady]

10 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Sonny Gray had an ERA of 4.28 last year. According to BR his WAR was 1.4 and his ERA+ was below average, 96. 
We don’t need to necessarily sign a FA SP as our much needed #2. We could trade for him. 
 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grayso01.shtml

But you consider Cease to be a #2 with an ERA of 4.55?  Why?

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

I don't care what his PROJECTIONS are. I care what he has done. 

If you don't care about projections, then why would you think Cease is better than Gray?  Gray had a better ERA, much better K/W, better record, much better Whip, more IPs, more IP/GS.  If you want to go by 2025 stats, then Gray is better.  If you want to go by FG projections, then Gray is better.  But I think you need to choose one set of criteria.

Show me where I said Cease is better than Gray. Good luck!

I said Cease signed with the Jays. I want someone better than both of them. 

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

That's a copout.  You want to criticize for not having done something that you have no idea of what you even want.

I have said what I want over and over again. Just to refresh your memory, I want a bona fide #2 SP. Gray isn’t that guy. It’s up to management to find him.

Again:

”While Gray is not the number twostarter fans have dreamed of pairing with ace Garrett Crochet, he is a dependable arm for a rotation”

perfectly stated.

[UtahSox]

9 hours ago, FredLynn said:

They don’t need a #2 for half the season. They need one for the whole season. 

Not necessarily. But if results with young guys aren’t there, need to be quick to pivot. 

[notin]

1 hour ago, JoeBrady said:

But you consider Cease to be a #2 with an ERA of 4.55?  Why?

Ooh!! Ooh!! I know! I know!

Cease is a #2 because he was signed by a team other than the Red Sox.  Gray is not a #2 because he was acquired by the Red Sox…

[Hugh2]

7 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I don't care what his PROJECTIONS are. I care what he has done. 

If you don't care about projections, then why would you think Cease is better than Gray?  Gray had a better ERA, much better K/W, better record, much better Whip, more IPs, more IP/GS.  If you want to go by 2025 stats, then Gray is better.  If you want to go by FG projections, then Gray is better.  But I think you need to choose one set of criteria.

For someone who has been dying on the hill of the stats are what they are, he seems weirdly in favor of a guy who had worse stats last year.….….

……

……

and cost $210 million instead of $20

[mvp 78]

9 hours ago, FredLynn said:

This sums it up nicely. Very accurate:

 

”While Gray is not the number two starter fans have dreamed of pairing with ace Garrett Crochet, he is a dependable arm for a rotation”

 

From an article on this forum ….

"Dependable arm" vs "significant amount of time on the IL."

[Old Red]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

"Dependable arm" vs "significant amount of time on the IL."

Let’s just hope he can escape the bad injury Juju that has enveloped Fenway the past 5 years, or so something  that Sale, or Gio couldn’t do.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

For someone who has been dying on the hill of the stats are what they are, he seems weirdly in favor of a guy who had worse stats last year.….….

……

……

and cost $210 million instead of $20

Please show me the post where I said I wanted Cease signed instead of Gray. 
We can do better than either one.

[Hugh2]

11 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Please show me the post where I said I wanted Cease signed instead of Gray. 
We can do better than either one.

You literally said “the jays just signed a real #2 starting pitcher”

[Hugh2]

On 11/26/2025 at 9:52 PM, FredLynn said:

And BTW, the Jays just signed a real #2. Cease is off the boards. Just signed with Toronto. 

Right yar 

[FredLynn]

10 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Right yar 

Framber Valdez

Ranger Suarez 

Why not sign one of these guys? Both are better than the excuse for a #2 they are trying to pass off as a legitimate 2 . Real Sox fans aren’t that dumb.

The bottom line is that Gray doesn’t cut it as a #2. It’s the job of management to address the needs of the team and like in the previous years they are trying to take a shortcut. We aren’t buying it. 

[notin]

2 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Framber Valdez

Ranger Suarez 

Why not sign one of these guys? Both are better than the excuse for a #2 they are trying to pass off as a legitimate 2 . Real Sox fans aren’t that dumb.

1.  Where did the Sox say “this is our #2”?

2. You’re avoiding why you thought Cease was a much better option.

3. By naming options, you’ve set yourself up to complain about any other pitcher the Sox acquired, save two.

4. Framber Valdez is an a-hole and needs to be avoided at all costs…

[FredLynn]

14 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

You literally said “the jays just signed a real #2 starting pitcher”

We can do better than either one.

You do know that there is virtually no chance the team will get Schwarber or Alonso, right? They’ll sign Bregman again and tell us they had “significant interest” in the better players. 
SSDD

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

4. Framber Valdez is an a-hole and needs to be avoided at all costs…

We already had to hold our noses for Chapman. Valdez would be a bit much. 

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, notin said:

1.  Where did the Sox say “this is our #2”?

2. You’re avoiding why you thought Cease was a much better option.

3. By naming options, you’ve set yourself up to complain about any other pitcher the Sox acquired, save two.

4. Framber Valdez is an a-hole and needs to be avoided at all costs…

Framber Valdez is a better pitcher than Gray. The numbers prove it. I suggested a couple of better pitchers than Gray or Cease. There are no doubt others . Not my job to find them. If management can’t put together a competitive team they are rightfully open to criticism.