Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[moonslav59]

43 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Red Sox have reportedly made an "aggressive" offer to Bregman according to Buster Olney.

Perhaps.

Maybe some Sox exec told Olney that, and he felt $120M/3 was "aggressive." In terms of AAV, it is, but it's likely not what Breggie wants.

Apparently, he wants 5 years, but $150M/5 is just $30M/2 more than the $120M/3 offer I mentioned.

I'm still thinking we settle on Suarez. The Okamoto clock runs out Sunday, so if Breggie is not signed, or we know we are out of that race, we need to act soon on him or be elft with one fewer "fall back."

[FredLynn]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

When you add some players mentioned in trades, like KMarte, Donovan, Vientos, Lodolo, Gore, Alcantara, Bubic, Ragans and others, there are still plenty of options out there. getting two would be great, but we'd have to make a trade for that to happen and not get the budget where JH says NO.

To get two, we'd have to pass on Bregman and Bichette, IMO.

Suarez or Okamoto could fit the budget model, and trading Duran ($7.8 AAV) for a solid SP like Lodolo ($5.2M) might keep us under the second tax line, which is maybe $24M away.

$25M a year for Suarez or Okamoto minus $2.6M on the trade, and we squeak under the 2nd line. Try to get CIN to take Hicks plus $6M a year and we'd save another $4M a year in AAV.

I think this looks like a significantly better team:

1. L Anthony LF

2. R Contreras 1B/C

3. L Abreu RF

4. R Suarez/Okamoto 3B

5. R Story SS

6. L Yoshida DH/R Romy DH/2B or R Campbell DH

7. R Narvaez C/L Casas 1B (Contreras at C)

8. L Mayer 2B/ R Romy 2B

9. R Rafaela CF

Bench: Wong, Romy, Campbell, DHam/Casas/Sogard/Eaton (TGray/Romero/Ward)

SP: Crochet, Gray, Lodolo, Bello, Sandoval/Oviedo (Tolle/Early)

RP: Chapman, Whitlock, Slaten, Weissert, Chapman. Harrison, Watson, Hicks/Moran (Kelly/Sandlin/Mullins/Uberstine/Drohan/Gamboa)

I LIKE THIS ROSTER!

I like it better than what we have now. But we still need more talent. I’d like it better with Ranger Suarez and Marte. But as you pointed out, Henry is too cheap. He doesn’t place a high priority on winning anymore.

[FredLynn]

24 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Perhaps.

Maybe some Sox exec told Olney that, and he felt $120M/3 was "aggressive." In terms of AAV, it is, but it's likely not what Breggie wants.

Apparently, he wants 5 years, but $150M/5 is just $30M/2 more than the $120M/3 offer I mentioned.

I'm still thinking we settle on Suarez. The Okamoto clock runs out Sunday, so if Breggie is not signed, or we know we are out of that race, we need to act soon on him or be elft with one fewer "fall back."

Right.

like the “aggressive offer they made to Lester and more recently Soto and the rest of them. This assessment is a load of crap.

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Red Sox have reportedly made an "aggressive" offer to Bregman according to Buster Olney.

I think bres-slow continues to push hard to bring Bregman back 

[moonslav59]

51 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I like it better than what we have now. But we still need more talent. I’d like it better with Ranger Suarez and Marte. But as you pointed out, Henry is too cheap. He doesn’t place a high priority on winning anymore.

He wants to win without large and long deals. We and the league have a pretty terrible record with large and long FA deals.

We do spend, despite what you claim.

I wish we spent more. I think we can win while staying below the second line, but we have to not swing and miss on the next deal or two, and we need some luck with health and progressions over regressions.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I think bres-slow continues to push hard to bring Bregman back 

What does that mean, if it does not include an extra year added? Did he start with 2 years, go to 3, then 4 and is not "pushing hard" towards 5, or just adding some dollars to 4 years?

How do you envision this "hard push?"

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm curious just how much he can do, if the limit is 4 years, and Breggie is demanding 5+. Why offer the same money for 4 as someone with a 5 year offer?

[Randy Red Sox]

8 hours ago, Hitch said:

Why do you keep going with this? I've not seen it mentioned anywhere bar by you. 

because this is how we are operating these days. Rather than sign a FA we just trade off our assets for a cheaper player.

[Randy Red Sox]

8 hours ago, Hitch said:

Why do you keep going with this? I've not seen it mentioned anywhere bar by you. 

because this is how we are operating these days. Rather than sign a FA we just trade off our assets for a cheaper player.

[notin]

35 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I think bres-slow continues to push hard to bring Bregman back 

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/alex-bregman-makes-subtle-social-211543211.html
 

[notin]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

Right.

like the “aggressive offer they made to Lester and more recently Soto and the rest of them. This assessment is a load of crap.

No one called their Lester offer aggressive, and their Soto offer was reportedly over twice as large as the previous largest contract offer in team history (Devers)…

[moonslav59]

53 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

because this is how we are operating these days. Rather than sign a FA we just trade off our assets for a cheaper player.

Cheaper than a FA, yes, but not cheap.

Gray cost us $21M and for once we got the other team to pay some cash.

Contreras has a decent salary- yes cheaper than if he was a FA, but still we added a lot of salary, so far.

[Randy Red Sox]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Cheaper than a FA, yes, but not cheap.

Gray cost us $21M and for once we got the other team to pay some cash.

Contreras has a decent salary- yes cheaper than if he was a FA, but still we added a lot of salary, so far.

not 40 million like we paid Bregman and not 31 million like we paid Devers.  Conteras was a far cry from Schwarber and Alonso and cost assets as well but of course he was far cheaper than the other 2. As for Gray his salary is offset by the ouster of Gioloto from the roster. Pretty much a wash..

[Hitch]

1 hour ago, notin said:

No one called their Lester offer aggressive, and their Soto offer was reportedly over twice as large as the previous largest contract offer in team history (Devers)…

Not to mention both Boras and Soto said after the event, that the Red Sox went big on him and offered big. 

They literally have no reason to lie about this. Yet people will still happily ignore this so they can sound off.

[Hitch]

1 hour ago, Randy Red Sox said:

because this is how we are operating these days. Rather than sign a FA we just trade off our assets for a cheaper player.

This crying about us not signing a FA yet is so ridiculous. There's been three deals over 3 years so far. In the whole of the MLB. The only one we've really missed out on is Alonso and our offer showed we weren't particularly sold on him.

[oldtimer]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

What does that mean, if it does not include an extra year added? Did he start with 2 years, go to 3, then 4 and is not "pushing hard" towards 5, or just adding some dollars to 4 years?

How do you envision this "hard push?"

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm curious just how much he can do, if the limit is 4 years, and Breggie is demanding 5+. Why offer the same money for 4 as someone with a 5 year offer?

This is the year for the Sox to make the jump and to become areal playoff contender. It is now into January and we haven't seen a substantial move to make us better and it looks highly likely Bregman will leave, making us in effect worse. Breslow needs to use his resources wisely yet to date it looks like a reprise of most earlier years. It's the results that count, not the rumors.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, notin said:

No one called their Lester offer aggressive, and their Soto offer was reportedly over twice as large as the previous largest contract offer in team history (Devers)…

You’re missing the point. So let me spell it out for you: this franchise has a history of making low ball offers to talented players then making a litany of excuses as to why the players they were “ interested in” signed elsewhere. 
I don’t expect that to change. And I don’t expect the Flops will win another ring as long as Henry owns the team.

[FredLynn]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

He wants to win without large and long deals. We and the league have a pretty terrible record with large and long FA deals.

We do spend, despite what you claim.

I wish we spent more. I think we can win while staying below the second line, but we have to not swing and miss on the next deal or two, and we need some luck with health and progressions over regressions.

Obviously we don’t spend enough to lure top talent here-and the dumpster diving players we do sign over the past 5-6 years simply aren’t good enough. Our won lost record is proof.

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

This crying about us not signing a FA yet is so ridiculous. There's been three deals over 3 years so far. In the whole of the MLB. The only one we've really missed out on is Alonso and our offer showed we weren't particularly sold on him.

I guess we aren’t “sold” on any high quality FAs. 

[Larry Cook]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

What does that mean, if it does not include an extra year added? Did he start with 2 years, go to 3, then 4 and is not "pushing hard" towards 5, or just adding some dollars to 4 years?

How do you envision this "hard push?"

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm curious just how much he can do, if the limit is 4 years, and Breggie is demanding 5+. Why offer the same money for 4 as someone with a 5 year offer?

I think someone said we offered 5 years and 160 million 

[JoeBrady]

3 hours ago, Hitch said:

They literally have no reason to lie about this. Yet people will still happily ignore this so they can sound off.

One-trick ponies.  If Henry spends $300M, they will still call him cheap.

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

not 40 million like we paid Bregman and not 31 million like we paid Devers.  Conteras was a far cry from Schwarber and Alonso and cost assets as well but of course he was far cheaper than the other 2. As for Gray his salary is offset by the ouster of Gioloto from the roster. Pretty much a wash..

Devers was not a FA.

The $40M for Bregman was more like $32M.

The $21M for Gray is exactly what we paid Buehler, who was the highest pitcher AAV since Sale (extension) and Price as a FA.

Contreras costs us $21.5M as AAV. That's not as much as Breggie, but it's the second highest since Story's, when compared to just FA signings, which your point.

No, this is not as much spending as last winter, and since that was on the heels of the Devers extension kicking, this is not as much, but we are seeing the Crochet extension kicking in, as well as Anthony & Campbell's.

New AAV added for 2026:

+$24.5M Crochet ($3.8M to $28.3M extension)

$21M S Gray ($41M- $20M paid by STL)

$21.3M Contreras

$16.3M Anthony extension

$10.3M Hicks (part of Devers dump)

$7.5M Campbell extension

+$2.5M Chapman ($10.8M to $13.3M extension)

Again, this is not meant as a defense for JH, but they guys has spent some heavy new money. This might be more new money spent than almost any other team, so far.

Granted, we dumped Devers and lost some heavy salaries for Buehler, Gio and some lesser ones, too.

I do not think we are done spending, either.

 

 

[Michigan Adam2]

I would be surprised if there isn't a trade coming after we get bregman. It could be 1 of 3 trades.  A 2nd basemen for an OF plus add ons either way, an OF and Sp for a better SP, or a salary dump of Hicks or Yoshida. Now if they dont get bregman it wouldn't shock me if they were basically done...

[Randy Red Sox]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

This crying about us not signing a FA yet is so ridiculous. There's been three deals over 3 years so far. In the whole of the MLB. The only one we've really missed out on is Alonso and our offer showed we weren't particularly sold on him.

we didn't miss out on Schwarber ??

 

[Randy Red Sox]

50 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Devers was not a FA.

The $40M for Bregman was more like $32M.

The $21M for Gray is exactly what we paid Buehler, who was the highest pitcher AAV since Sale (extension) and Price as a FA.

Contreras costs us $21.5M as AAV. That's not as much as Breggie, but it's the second highest since Story's, when compared to just FA signings, which your point.

No, this is not as much spending as last winter, and since that was on the heels of the Devers extension kicking, this is not as much, but we are seeing the Crochet extension kicking in, as well as Anthony & Campbell's.

New AAV added for 2026:

+$24.5M Crochet ($3.8M to $28.3M extension)

$21M S Gray ($41M- $20M paid by STL)

$21.3M Contreras

$16.3M Anthony extension

$10.3M Hicks (part of Devers dump)

$7.5M Campbell extension

+$2.5M Chapman ($10.8M to $13.3M extension)

Again, this is not meant as a defense for JH, but they guys has spent some heavy new money. This might be more new money spent than almost any other team, so far.

Granted, we dumped Devers and lost some heavy salaries for Buehler, Gio and some lesser ones, too.

I do not think we are done spending, either.

 

 

Listen I am ONLY INTERESTED in how much we are sopending 1} in relation to the revenue generated and 2} where we rank in overall MLB team payroll. I don't want to hear about how salaries of our young guys are rising. Are the Sox the ONLY team that has these increases ?? 

Finally I am really only concerned with how we are upgrading our overall roster regardless of $$ involved but I just don't see it yet.  Currently  we sit 12th  in overall team payroll ??

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Randy Red Sox said:

Listen I am ONLY INTERESTED in how much we are spending 1} in relation to the revenue generated and 2} where we rank in overall MLB team payroll. I don't want to hear about how salaries of our young guys are rising. Are the Sox the ONLY team that has these increases ?

That's fine, but that is not the same as saying JH does not spend a lot.

I wish he'd spend more, too.

I don't get pissed because he's like most businessmen.

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, Randy Red Sox said:

 Currently  we sit 12th  in overall team payroll ??

8th according to Cots.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Randy Red Sox said:

Finally I am really only concerned with how we are upgrading our overall roster regardless of $$ involved but I just don't see it yet.  Currently  we sit 12th  in overall team payroll ??

I think we all want us to get better, anyway-anyhow.

Spotrac has us 8th, right now.

$16M from #7.

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

8th according to Cots.

And, we were one of 9 teams going over the tax line in 2025. We went over by the 7th most.

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

8th according to Cots.

I can sometimes be a stickler for semantics, but I keep hearing hos JH is "cheap," when he actually has spent a lot for two decades and for the the the last 2-3 years. The Devers extension was signed in JAN 2023, but it I believe it started in 2024, so more like 2 years.

It sucked from 2019 (not re-signing or replacing Kimbrel & Kelly) through the Betts trade and countless stars leaving without in-kind replacements, but the spending has returned. 

We can argue it should be more, but saying he's not spending or is cheap is not needed (nor true) to make that point.

[Hitch]

14 hours ago, FredLynn said:

I guess we aren’t “sold” on any high quality FAs. 

At least you've stopped stating your opinion is a fact.

Growth.