Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[drewski6]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I've soured on the ownership group ever since that day. I used to be the nicest and sweetest poster! 😇

this is why you'll often see me pick on em for laziness.  Its not even the having to deal with the already being #1 in payroll and needing to make cost cutting moves due to dudes needing raises. I would have forgave that.

It was taking the easy option. Finding the biggest contract and circling it and sending it.  Could have found a better way to shave the money, but that would have taken time and effort and instead they chose the shortest route to slash payroll, and i havent forgiven that.

I also hated rolling the same mediocre players over year after year, again, laziness.  Why spend time working to upgrade your roster when you can spend that time on a boat!?!

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I liked load.

Wheres your crown, king nothing?

No.

1. Master Of Puppets

2. Kill Em All

3. Ride the Lightning

4. And Justice For All

5. Black Album

6. St. Anger

7. Reload

8. Load

I have no interest in putting effort into listening to three newer albums. 

[Kimmi]

22 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I never hated Bloom but hated what he represented as soon as he started shopping Mookie. Then came the bins... and Story and Bogaerts and Yoshida... and Breslow... and Raffy. 

Naturally, I loved what Dombrowski and Epstein represented -- and Dan Duquette, the forgotten man in the glorious history of Boston's 21st century.

All those contracts, all that money, and no opt outs (except for Price and JD Martinez, who never opted out when we needed them to... unlike Bregman, who opted out when we needed him not to).

 

Epstein is the GOAT and probably always will be.  The Theo/Tito combination was the best.

Generally, I'm not a fan of the opt out and would prefer that they go away.  Unfortunately, sometimes that's the only way you can get a player to agree to a somewhat reasonable contract.

[Kimmi]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

If JH spent, there was no need, yes, but some of knew he would not become the LAD East.

To keep Betts, Bogey and replac4e others who left, he'd have had an enormous budget. Some of us saw that coming and knew he would not do that. We predicted it, and it happened.

You can say all the "ifs" in the world, but it happened. We had a cliff.

100% agree.  We most definitely had a cliff.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Epstein is the GOAT and probably always will be.  The Theo/Tito combination was the best.

Generally, I'm not a fan of the opt out and would prefer that they go away.  Unfortunately, sometimes that's the only way you can get a player to agree to a somewhat reasonable contract.

The two times I've been most annoyed at the FO: trading Mookie, throwing Theo/Tito under the bus on the way out the door. 

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

see you lost me.  The cliff was what led to trading betts, not what happened after.  We were toast.  Although, I guess the lack of adding after could be an aftermath effect of being over a finacial cliff. But that didnt matter.  We were already toast.  Because verdublow was fools gold (i called it immediately) and there was no coming back from trading betts.

Everyone knew that we were gonna shed some money.  That doesnt necessary mean plummet payroll. We already had #1 payroll and dudes needing raises. So even if kept the payroll same (or even went up a bit) there was a financial matter to deal with.  We werent going to be #1 in payroll and THEN splash money around like a team thats perennially 20th in payroll but trying to change their image. Just wasnt going to happen. SO there was financial moves that were going to be made.

And everyone and I bet here too, thought it was like inevitable and a must to trade betts. ANd it wasnt.  And i heard it all before. Joe Brady loved the trade because when you break down talent for every dollar spent , he would prefer verdublow over betts.  And all those arguments we hear now about why we should avoid expensive players were all then there too.

There was never ever ever a reason to trade betts and we're still paying the price for THAT now (not Dave's move but htat move) . We have not recovered from trading Betts.

i wonder sometimes if Henry lost a bet or something (like the movie Trading Place, except this hasn't worked out) . i can just see him sitting around with his billionaire buddies after winning the WS in 2018....

Henry (smoking his cigar): yep, that's four championships in 15 years. I could do this all day.

BIllionaire buddy: well, to be fair, any organization could win a WS with what you've spent on payroll.

Henry: that's not true, we have smart people (including me) running this from top to bottom as well as the best players money can buy.

Billionaire buddy: i bet you $100M you can't win a WS if you fire DD, trade off your best players, and never sign a free agent to a contract in the Top 35 in baseball. I'll give you 10 years.

Henry: you're on!

[Kimmi]

3 hours ago, a700hitter said:

Who were all the great prospects that Dave sacrificed to win?  For the most part he moved all the guys who never made it.

It's not about whether the prospects made it or not.  It's about taking a top 5 farm system and making it a bottom 5 farm system in about 2 years.  

I understand that one of the important purposes of a farm system is to use the prospects in trades.  But Dombrowski went overboard.  When you have a bottom 5 farm system, you hit a cliff.

[Duran Is The Man]

4 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

It's not about whether the prospects made it or not.  It's about taking a top 5 farm system and making it a bottom 5 farm system in about 2 years.  

I understand that one of the important purposes of a farm system is to use the prospects in trades.  But Dombrowski went overboard.  When you have a bottom 5 farm system, you hit a cliff.

what top prospects did he trade that he shouldn't have?

[Kimmi]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The Dombrowski model is sustainable -- if you have an owner who's willing to keep writing the checks.

The Phillies have done pretty well the last few years, Playoph Phlops notwithstanding.

 

Most owners are not willing to keep writing checks and subsequently eating money from bad contracts.  I can't blame them.

[Duran Is The Man]

2 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Most owners are not willing to keep writing checks and subsequently eating money from bad contracts.  I can't blame them.

like it or not, it's the cost of doing business if you want to compete. 

[Kimmi]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

We are both stuck to our positions.

I was a cliffdweller. MVP and others were not, and now are trying to rewrite history to say we did well from 2020-2024. All the bitching and complaining was misplaced, as we were really highly competitive on paper but just had bad luck.

Look, we all know we could have been competitive all along, but some knew JH would not spend as highly as needed from the Betts trade until the farm provided enough filler pieces to make moderate spending enough to get us to "over the cliff."

Most posters on here, myself included, get stuck to our positions.  It's rare that someone changes their opinion over the larger philosophical issues.  Every once in a while, but not often.

I read post after post after post on here about how Henry needs to open his wallet and spend more like the Dodgers because he can afford to do so.  None of those posts have moved the needle on my opinion one bit.  Yes, I'm stubborn, but I'm really not.

[Kimmi]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

 

Woot!  Down to double digits!  Let's go!

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

what top prospects did he trade that he shouldn't have?

His problem wasn't destroying the farm through trades. He destroyed the farm through horrible drafting.

[Kimmi]

20 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The two times I've been most annoyed at the FO: trading Mookie, throwing Theo/Tito under the bus on the way out the door. 

I am 100% with you on the latter, not so much on the former.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Kimmi said:

Woot!  Down to double digits!  Let's go!

About 55 days until pitchers and catchers report.

[Kimmi]

12 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

what top prospects did he trade that he shouldn't have?

There are no particular individual prospects that I'm concerned about.  It's the magnitude of prospects he traded away.  FTR, I was 100% against the Kimbrel trade (though I fully admit I liked having him on the team.)  But IMO, Dombrowski not only overpaid for Kimbrel in prospects, he overpaid in money also.

[Larry Cook]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

His problem wasn't destroying the farm through trades. He destroyed the farm through horrible drafting.

Really? I thought desperate Dave had decent drafts for where he was picking in the draft !

none of his drafts will compare to hang’em Chaim’s drafts, but moving 15-20 spots up the draft board will do that!!   
 

the 2026 draft is the first one that we get to see the real bres-slow drafting technique in action 

[Kimmi]

17 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

like it or not, it's the cost of doing business if you want to compete. 

I don't like it one bit.  LOL

I also don't agree that you have to spend like the Dodgers to compete.

[Kimmi]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

About 55 days until pitchers and catchers report.

It cannot come soon enough, IMO.

[oldtimer]

24 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Most owners are not willing to keep writing checks and subsequently eating money from bad contracts.  I can't blame them.

I was hoping for results to propel the team forward this off season. To date, the front office appears to be back peddling while other teams make meaningful moves. Bregman is  now gone, yet we have not yet gotten power bats or a #2 starter Breslow gives us rhetoric but little else while O'Henry provides the irony. What will it take to get the attention In this game, money needs to be spent, but wisely. The Sox have had more than their share of bad contracts. I of ownership? Menaingful adverse fan reaction?

[Nick]

https://bosoxinjection.com/giants-gm-reminds-red-sox-why-they-never-should-have-traded-rafael-devers/partners/36534?fbclid=IwY2xjawOxVrVleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZBAyMjIwMzkxNzg4MjAwODkyAAEepxtZ5pkgVNh2kZvUQNc7uGF_QU2gm0ed0qpmldnFCqxRwETKS1dnAs0Xpi8_aem_P1wpBSDbDlGtYETpQCazTA

 

I'm pretty sure Bres said one thing we needed was more power in our lineup. 

Who will get the blame this year if we fail to make the playoffs? He won't have Devers and his 36 home runs to kick around.

I guess I'm back to pulling for Casas.

[JoeBrady]

5 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

So, that period was fine for you, and all the beef we've heard for years was unfounded.

No cliff.

I am always confused about how RS fans see the past 7 years.  Some seem to feel that JH should be run out of town, and some seem to think it was okay, and some seem think think it was a rebuild.

[Bellhorn04]

46 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Most posters on here, myself included, get stuck to our positions.  It's rare that someone changes their opinion over the larger philosophical issues.  Every once in a while, but not often.

I read post after post after post on here about how Henry needs to open his wallet and spend more like the Dodgers because he can afford to do so.  None of those posts have moved the needle on my opinion one bit.  Yes, I'm stubborn, but I'm really not.

We're all wired differently, that's for sure.  I don't expect Henry to spend as much as the Dodgers, but for me it stings that the Dodgers have been killing us in terms of success, basically since Betts left.  Not as bad as it would be if it was the Yankees doing this, but it's running a pretty strong second.

The Red Sox just don't seem to have much urgency any more.  Last offseason was encouraging, but I have a nagging feeling they're not going to do much this offseason.  I think Henry is looking at the possible lockout in 2027 and the potential losses that will occur.   

[JoeBrady]

5 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Yes, we all know the key to financial freedom is skipping the coffee on the way to work 🙄

Propoganda santa brings you a list of reasons why its your fault that you are working your life away.

No thanks.

Aren't you working your life away?

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

I am always confused about how RS fans see the past 7 years.  Some seem to feel that JH should be run out of town, and some seem to think it was okay, and some seem think think it was a rebuild.

I'd call it a big mishmash.  And I think having 2 totally inexperienced CBOs has a lot to do with that.  It's been kind of a helter-skelter performance, some good moves mixed with too many bad ones.  

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

 

Good for the RS.  If Bregman goes to 3rd, then AZ is going with Marte or Lawlar at 2nd.

[JoeBrady]

4 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The Phillies have done pretty well the last few years,

They've added $100M+ in payroll since DD joined them.  If JH added another $100M to what our payroll was in 2019, we'd be above the LAD.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

We're now in post-cliff era

 2025 was post cliff. 2026 should be, and if it's not, it's a new cliff.

[Larry Cook]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

 2025 was post cliff. 2026 should be, and if it's not, it's a new cliff.

Every year is a reset with a new cliff!  
we get to add Anthony and Mayer for the whole year in the field. Wong, yoshida and Casas come back full year from the injured list, We add Oviedo and gray to the rotation. Cutter and dobbins come back from the injured list. We add Harrison, Watson, and immedigeno (Pittsburgh) to the bullpen! 
 

we lost Devers, Bregman and Campbell from the field. We lost giolita, houck ( injury) and buehler from the rotation. We lost Wilson and a bunch of lefties from the bullpen. 
 

rotation and bullpen are slightly improved. Field is significantly decreased, with the chance that Anthony, Mayer, Wong and cassas reduce some of the deficit 
 

 

[moonslav59]

There are a few things to have hope about- quite a few, and it seems that some are bound to come true. With so many players missing time, their return could be significant boosts to the team's production.

I've mentioned the loss of about 1150 PAs from Bregman, Devers, Refsnyder and Lowe, who all combined for an OPS in the mid .800s, and we lost very little in terms of bad OPS guys on offense, but we can hope for...

Anthony adding 300+ PAs.

Mayer adding 300-400+ PAs.

Casas adding 400-500+

Masa adding 300-400+

Abreu 100+ (more if he stops platooning)

So far, we have made no outside additions to the offense.

The pitching offers a greater chance of returning player infusion, but it might be harder to project the infusions will be pluses, mehs or negative values.

We need to replace 26 GS by Gio, 10 by Fitts, 9 by Houck, 10 by Newcomb+May and 22 by Buehler. We also had 5 GS'd by openers or scrubs. That's over half our starts up for grabs by...

New guys or those with 0 GS in '25:

25-30 Sonny Gray

10-30 by Sandoval, Oviedo, Crawford

Returning pitchers

2-3 more from Bello (had 28)

??? Dobbins (11) Early (4) Tolle (3) Harrison (2)

With the pen, we have some major IP shifts coming:

585 IP by 2025 RP'ers

72 Whitlock> same

67 Weissert> same

61 Chapman> same

35 Kelly> ???

34 Slaten> +30

19 Hicks> ???

4 Moran> ???

0 Watson, Samaniego, Mullins>???

Converted SP'ers> ????

Lost

48 Bernardino + 48 Wilson

23 Matz, 19 Newcomb, 17 Guerrero, 16 Alcala, 14 Hendriks, 12 Wink, 11 Criswell

plus lower IP like Burdi, Fulmer, Fitts, Campbell, May and more