Red Sox (Crochet) vs Blue Jays (Scherzer): 9/24/25, 7:07pm

[drewski6]

17 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That's pretty wild.

90% of everything in this universe is dumb luck. fight me

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

IS bobby kielty the one who looks like chris elliott

No, Bob Elliott. 

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The difference maker could have been "playoff appearance vs World Series Championship" though. 

Too much randomness to evaluate such things.

Deadlines are generally about picking up complementary pieces.

And I think we've all agreed that you usually have to overpay bigly at the deadline. 

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's a sucker question because there are too many possibilities and too many unknowns.

He could have traded the whole farm for a bat that would have marginally improved our chances.  Would you call that doing his job?

He acquired 2 players that are helping, Lowe and Matz.

I think you're over-rating the importance of the deadline.  It's rare that deadline moves push any team over the top.

Dombrowski may have done that in 2018 with Eovaldi and Pearce.  That was a great deadline.  But they don't happen often.  DD didn't do much at his other deadlines with us.  

The simple fact is that Breslow whiffed at the deadline. The needs of the team were NOT met-and that is his job. No moves would have guaranteed a WS appearance, but the right moves would have put the team in the best possible position to do so. I am not interested in excuses, which is what we have got for two years in a row. Only results.

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

90% of everything in this universe is dumb luck. fight me

90% is too high IMHO, especially if we keep this in the realm of sports.  If there's that much dumb luck, how come the Yankees and Dodgers continue to thrive and the Pirates and Rockies continue to suck?

 

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

No, Bob Elliott. 

I was thinking of Mike Karp.  Looks like Chris Elliott, no?

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Too much randomness to evaluate such things.

Deadlines are generally about picking up complementary pieces.

And I think we've all agreed that you usually have to overpay bigly at the deadline. 

So overpay for average players to fill out the bottom of the lineup where the Sox still have holes? I don't see what the big deal is. They overpaid for a starter that has an extensive history of not staying healthy and he probably won't be helping them in the playoffs anyway. 

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

90% is too high IMHO, especially if we keep this in the realm of sports.  If there's that much dumb luck, how come the Yankees and Dodgers continue to thrive and the Pirates and Rockies continue to suck?

 

Its dumb luck that these teams are in big markets with deep pocket owners. Its dumb luck that ohtani is asian and therefore preferred west coast. Its dumb luck that steinbrenner wasnt born in 1836 and died at age 31.

But point taken

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

The simple fact is that Breslow whiffed at the deadline. The needs of the team were NOT met-and that is his job. No moves would have guaranteed a WS appearance, but the right moves would have put the team in the best possible position to do so. I am not interested in excuses, which is what we have got for two years in a row. Only results.

If our needs were not met, how are we in a good position to make the playoffs?

[FredLynn]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

90% is too high IMHO, especially if we keep this in the realm of sports.  If there's that much dumb luck, how come the Yankees and Dodgers continue to thrive and the Pirates and Rockies continue to suck?

 

GENERALLY SPEAKING, the teams with the best players year after year tend to get the best results, year after year. The FLOPS have engaged in dumpster diving year after year-Buehler, May, Lowe etc rather than obtaining the kind of quality players consistently who make teams successful.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

If our needs were not met, how are we in a good position to make the playoffs?

They played .560 ball the rest of the way. All they did was just not swoon like they had in previous years. They didn't go on an amazing run or anything. 

(It helped that their pitchers led MLB in ERA in August, which had nothing to do with the guys they picked up). 

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

GENERALLY SPEAKING, the teams with the best players year after year tend to get the best results, year after year. The FLOPS have engaged in dumpster diving year after year-Buehler, May, Lowe etc rather than obtaining the kind of quality players consistently who make teams successful.

Now you're just rattling.

Lowe has proven to be a good pickup.  He's had a solid career and was having a bad season, that happens to plenty of good players.

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

If our needs were not met, how are we in a good position to make the playoffs?

Think we are serious WS contenders? Silly me. I thought THAT was the goal-a ring.

Until the Guardians recent surge they were the only playoff team with worse odds to win a ring than the FLOPS. When these figures are updated I suspect the FLOPS will be the LOWEST rated odds to win a ring of those teams who are likely to be in the playoffs. It could have been better had Breslow done his job: 

 

https://www.espn.com/sports-betting/story/_/id/38801876/2025-world-series-odds-mlb-baseball

[Maxbialystock]

4 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The simple fact is that Breslow whiffed at the deadline. The needs of the team were NOT met-and that is his job. No moves would have guaranteed a WS appearance, but the right moves would have put the team in the best possible position to do so. I am not interested in excuses, which is what we have got for two years in a row. Only results.

Looks like you are about to see results in the form of the postseason and that's primarily because on July 31 the Sox already had the starters they needed to get to the postseason.  

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Now you're just rattling.

Lowe has proven to be a good pickup.  He's had a solid career and was having a bad season, that happens to plenty of good players.

Sometimes dumpster diving finds a dollar bill. But its still dumpster diving. Lowe pretty much sucked until he joined the FLOPS. Same with other dumpster treats they dove for. Occasionally they work out. Most don't.

[FredLynn]

Just now, Maxbialystock said:

Looks like you are about to see results in the form of the postseason and that's primarily because on July 31 the Sox already had the starters they needed to get to the postseason.  

And they could have been even better. They WASTED a good team by not filling it in.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

They played .560 ball the rest of the way. All they did was just not swoon like they had in previous years. They didn't go on an amazing run or anything. 

(It helped that their pitchers led MLB in ERA in August, which had nothing to do with the guys they picked up). 

Yes, that definitely helps.  Craig has done a great job putting this staff together. 😉

 

[Bellhorn04]

14 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

And they could have been even better. They WASTED a good team by not filling it in.

So now the Flops are a good team, the same team you've been calling bums for months.  I'm sure I can dig up plenty of posts where you said they were very lacking in talent and should be blown up and rebuilt.

You contradict yourself a lot. 

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Think we are serious WS contenders? Silly me. I thought THAT was the goal-a ring.

Until the Guardians recent surge they were the only playoff team with worse odds to win a ring than the FLOPS. When these figures are updated I suspect the FLOPS will be the LOWEST rated odds to win a ring of those teams who are likely to be in the playoffs. It could have been better had Breslow done his job: 

 

https://www.espn.com/sports-betting/story/_/id/38801876/2025-world-series-odds-mlb-baseball

NYM +2000

DET +2000

BOS +2000

CLE +2500

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yes, that definitely helps.  Craig has done a great job putting this staff together. 😉

 

Like I said previously, no complaints about the offseason moves. In season moves leave something to be desired TBF. 

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

So now the Flops are a good team, the same team you've been calling bums for months.

You contradict yourself incessantly. 

🙈🙉🙊

[Maxbialystock]

5 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Think we are serious WS contenders? Silly me. I thought THAT was the goal-a ring.

Until the Guardians recent surge they were the only playoff team with worse odds to win a ring than the FLOPS. When these figures are updated I suspect the FLOPS will be the LOWEST rated odds to win a ring of those teams who are likely to be in the playoffs. It could have been better had Breslow done his job: 

 

https://www.espn.com/sports-betting/story/_/id/38801876/2025-world-series-odds-mlb-baseball

Can't disagree that the Sox are a longshot for the WS, but disagree vehemently that should have been the goal for this season.  I say that because Breslow in fact brought in four excellent players--Crochet, Chapman, Bregman, and Narvaez--more than any CBO I can remember doing in one season.  

In fact, this is the best Sox pitching staff since at least 2018.  The hitting has been up and down, but that's because Devers and his .905 OPS as DH were traded away after refusing to move to 1b, Bregman was out for 7 weeks and then went into a slump. Anthony, the Sox best hitter, went on the IL on Sep 2, Abreu has missed 40 games because of 2 visits to the IL, 

And let's not forget that in the Sox four WS seasons--2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018--the Sox payrolls were 2d, 2d, 3d, and 1st in MLB.  This year their payroll is 12th.   The Sox payroll in 2019 was 1st when the Sox didn't make the postseason.  

 

 

[vegasbob]

31 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

90% of everything in this universe is dumb luck. fight me

We are mere BB's rattling around in a 55 gallon  empty drum.   

What's amazing to me , and an incredible job by Fred, is that he has kept  the majority of active Talksoxer's hooked with his black/white, all or none propositions for pretty much the second half of the season. Many of you continue to stay hooked as if you could change Fred's mind or have  any influence whatever on what Breslow, Cora or JH actually do or don't do.

Debate and contrary opinions are the essence of fandom, as is calling guys Bums or Bell-boy , who is your pitcher in a game that could determine the first Red Sox playoff team since Covid shortened 2021.

Stay hooked if you will but it is dreadfully boring at this point.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

13 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

So now the Flops are a good team, the same team you've been calling bums for months.

You contradict yourself incessantly. 

Responding to Fred is the ultimate exercise in futility.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

Well at least thats an honest response. While no one is saying he did the job no one has agreed with me that he screwed up either, which he did. Basically he wasted a year of potential contention for a ring. Bottom line: he did not do his job well for the second year in a row. Whether he should get fired for his incompetence is another matter.

Several posters have said Brez did not do a good job at the deadline. I was upset at the time, too. I still think he could have and should have done better, but I'm stopping short of bashing him over the lack of better deals, because I'd like specifics.

To fire a guy over one aspect of his total portfolio seems rash, to me. I respect differing opinions, but to me, this team has clearly gotten much better and has a better outlook going forward than it did at the end of 2022, and the record is just one sign of that.

He filled some major holes in the rotation (Crochet,) pen (Chapman) and the line-up & D (Bregman & Narvaez.) Even one questionable move (Gio) is coming int fruition, now. He locked up our young talent like no previous Sox GM has ever done. He has no major contract problems of his own doing. I just don't see how an undone deadline deal outweighs all of that and is reason for termination.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Like I said previously, no complaints about the offseason moves. In season moves leave something to be desired TBF. 

Well, I realize the Devers trade is a hard one to evaluate based on numbers, but I still believe that was a positive move for the team. 

I'm easily affected by recent results though, I have to admit.  Just a couple days ago I was lamenting not acquiring a bat after they traded Devers.  Then they go out and play 2 great games in Toronto and it's pretty hard to complain all of a sudden.

Crazy game.  And it makes intelligent adults like we all are here talk some pretty cxrazy s**t.  🤣  

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

So now the Flops are a good team, the same team you've been calling bums for months.  I'm sure I can dig up plenty of posts where you said they were very lacking in talent and should be blown up and rebuilt.

You contradict yourself a lot. 

They became a good team, in large part to Brez moves.

[FredLynn]

17 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

So now the Flops are a good team, the same team you've been calling bums for months.  I'm sure I can dig up plenty of posts where you said they were very lacking in talent and should be blown up and rebuilt.

You contradict yourself a lot. 

Good teams sometimes play like bums

[vegasbob]

33 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

90% is too high IMHO, especially if we keep this in the realm of sports.  If there's that much dumb luck, how come the Yankees and Dodgers continue to thrive and the Pirates and Rockies continue to suck?

 

It wasn't forever ago that the Sox won a WS vs. , hold it.....the Rockies (2007)

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 minute ago, Maxbialystock said:

Can't disagree that the Sox are a longshot for the WS, but disagree vehemently that should have been the goal for this season.  I say that because Breslow in fact brought in four excellent players--Crochet, Chapman, Bregman, and Narvaez--more than any CBO I can remember doing in one season.  

In fact, this is the best Sox pitching staff since at least 2018.  The hitting has been up and down, but that's because Devers and his .905 OPS as DH were traded away after refusing to move to 1b, Bregman was out for 7 weeks and then went into a slump. Anthony, the Sox best hitter, went on the IL on Sep 2, Abreu has missed 40 games because of 2 visits to the IL, 

And let's not forget that in the Sox four WS seasons--2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018--the Sox payrolls were 2d, 2d, 3d, and 1st in MLB.  This year their payroll is 12th.   The Sox payroll in 2019 was 1st when the Sox didn't make the postseason.  

 

 

Speaking of Devers, he did have a very good August, but as he did here the previous two seasons, he's had a complete collapse in September.