Red Sox (Crochet) vs Blue Jays (Scherzer): 9/24/25, 7:07pm

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, notin said:

They’re in the postseason.  That outranks a weak deadline.  That outranks trading their best hitter in June, too…

Now you are the one not looking enough at the context. We made the playoffs over a team that sold off at the deadline. Wowie!  Not saying im not happy. NOt saying Brez sucked.

But you both are putting too much into a 2 game swing out of 162.  Theres a huge luck component to all of this, so I choose to focus on what we did vs the results we got.  Especially over a sample of 2-3 games (difff between making and missing playoffs).  In NFL, a fg kicker missing a gimme can be the difference between a team making/missing playoffs. Should an NFL coach (on either side) be fired/retained over somehting so "there was a strong gust of wind at the exact moment..."

Going solely by results will lead to good people with bad luck getting canned and bad people with good luck getting retained.  Brez should not get fired if we dont make the playoffs and he shouldnt auto keep his job if we do make.  Personally, I would ask Cora, in a room alone: Are you happy with this dude as your boss? Do you trust him to get the right players for you next 3-5 years? And if Cora says no, I axe Bres.  And if Cora says yes, I keep Bres.  Because the outcome doesnt tell the whole story.  

[mvp 78]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

Not sure.  Campbell? Is that really relevant?

If no team would trade him a 1b, how would he address it? Heck was signing Lowe really a no-brainer? 

Seemed like it at the time.

[FredLynn]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

They’re in the postseason.  That outranks a weak deadline.  That outranks trading their best hitter in June, too…

They are ALMOST in the postseason, which is why I would not fire Breslow-yet. That does not excuse his crap job at the TD though-two years in a row. He has done some good things, obviously, but I expect more from him than this year's whiff at the TD.

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I included the link. Read the quote and weep.

The link doesn't work for me.  

But here's a revelation: Just because somebody said it on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

And no legit sportswriter would be using the term "epic fail".   

 

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The link doesn't work for me.  

But here's a revelation: Just because somebody said it on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

And no legit sportswriter would be using the term "epic fail".   

 

Well then here's another quote: 

 

Trying to get out in front of anticipated criticism, Craig Breslow preemptively addressed criticism before anyone even asked.

 

 

“It wasn’t from a lack of trying to be as aggressive as possible or from an unwillingness to get uncomfortable,” the Red Sox Chief Baseball Officer said after his team’s much-anticipated trade deadline flopped.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2025/08/red-sox-trade-deadline-another-full-throttle-disappointment.html

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Well at least thats an honest response. While no one is saying he did the job no one has agreed with me that he screwed up either, which he did. Basically he wasted a year of potential contention for a ring. Bottom line: he did not do his job well for the second year in a row. Whether he should get fired for his incompetence is another matter.

I agree that he had a bad deadline, and we can call it a bad deadline without any further information and its a big black eye.  I agree that Im not sold on him

But you are the one who put all your eggs into the make/miss playoffs basket and now we are going to make. So now , you have said the red sox have been flops for decades but are no longer the flops because they made the playoffs in 2025, which is a very weak year.

Other people are saying that you are not looking around enough because of the first paragraph in this post (well he didnt do much, but neither did anyone else).  Im saying you arent looking around enough because of the second paragraph.

Breslow doesnt magically become something else because we made the playoffs.  But you not looking around enough made you think our chances of missing was greater than they were.  And I told you this at the deadline.  Breslow did a bad job at the deadline, but we'll prob still make the playoffs cuz the AL stinks right now and more the half teams are barely trying.

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

I agree that he had a bad deadline, and we can call it a bad deadline without any further information and its a big black eye.  I agree that Im not sold on him

But you are the one who put all your eggs into the make/miss playoffs basket and now we are going to make. So now , you have said the red sox have been flops for decades but are no longer the flops because they made the playoffs in 2025, which is a very weak year.

Other people are saying that you are not looking around enough because of the first paragraph in this post (well he didnt do much, but neither did anyone else).  Im saying you arent looking around enough because of the second paragraph.

Breslow doesnt magically become something else because we made the playoffs.  But you not looking around enough made you think our chances of missing was greater than they were.  And I told you this at the deadline.  Breslow did a bad job at the deadline, but we'll prob still make the playoffs cuz the AL stinks right now and more the half teams are barely trying.

RESULTS matter. Yes, Breslow failed miserably at the TD. Anyone who is honest will admit that. Hell, he admitted it himself. But his earlier successes, bringing in players like Crochet and Chapman, for examples, mitigate his epic fail on July 31 and likely saved his job. The BOTTOM LINE matters: the FLOPS will likely make the playoffs. They could have done much better.

[drewski6]

luck and level of competition are huge determinants in make vs miss playoffs.  so to judge your gm/execs based on solely make/miss will lead you to draw incorrect conclusions about making vs missing

people just dont want to accept how much luck factors in.  thats why stupid myths like "good teams find a way to win championships" exist.  The patriots may have been good, they may not have been. But getting past the raiders in the snowgame was pure luck.  Drafting brady in rd 6 was mostly luck.  A ball hitting a foul pole vs sailing around it is mostly luck.

Making the playoffs because of 2 games out of 162 is mostly luck.

The improvements are there and im happy with this team.  But im not going to put my full confidence in Brez because we made the playoffs. Similarly, had we missed, I wouldnt have fired him just for that.  Because you need to assess him accurately, and going by if we made or miss doesnt do that.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox 2007 trade deadline acquisitions were Bobby Kielty and Eric Gagne.  Amazing that Theo didn't get fired for that disaster! 😄

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

RESULTS matter. Yes, Breslow failed miserably at the TD. Anyone who is honest will admit that. Hell, he admitted it himself. But his earlier successes, bringing in players like Crochet and Chapman, for examples, mitigate his epic fail on July 31 and likely saved his job. The BOTTOM LINE matters: the FLOPS will likely make the playoffs. They could have done much better.

of course the bottom line matters, but if we are trying to assess breslows job performance accurately, he doesnt get an A+ automatically if we make , and he doesnt get an F- automatically if we miss.  We have to dig a little deeper. Going purely by results will lead to inaccurate assessments.  

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

luck and level of competition are huge determinants in make vs miss playoffs.  so to judge your gm/execs based on solely make/miss will lead you to draw incorrect conclusions about making vs missing

people just dont want to accept how much luck factors in.  thats why stupid myths like "good teams find a way to win championships" exist.  The patriots may have been good, they may not have been. But getting past the raiders in the snowgame was pure luck.  Drafting brady in rd 6 was mostly luck.  A ball hitting a foul pole vs sailing around it is mostly luck.

Making the playoffs because of 2 games out of 162 is mostly luck.

The improvements are there and im happy with this team.  But im not going to put my full confidence in Brez because we made the playoffs. Similarly, had we missed, I wouldnt have fired him just for that.  Because you need to assess him accurately, and going by if we made or miss doesnt do that.

I get that luck plays a role. HOWEVER, obtaining quality players rather than dumpster diving like this franchise does puts the team in a better position to win. Did you want to deny that?

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Red Sox 2007 trade deadline acquisitions were Bobby Kielty and Eric Gagne.  Amazing that Theo didn't get fired for that disaster! 😄

Obviously that was a different team with fewer needs than this one. Apples and oranges. Each team, each year, there are different needs. 

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I get that luck plays a role. HOWEVER, obtaining quality players rather than dumpster diving like this franchise does puts the team in a better position to win. Did you want to deny that?

no

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

of course the bottom line matters, but if we are trying to assess breslows job performance accurately, he doesnt get an A+ automatically if we make , and he doesnt get an F- automatically if we miss.  We have to dig a little deeper. Going purely by results will lead to inaccurate assessments.  

No playoffs and I would give him not an "F", but a "C", which is not good enough for my liking. 

[drewski6]

Just now, FredLynn said:

No playoffs and I would give him not an "F", but a "C", which is not good enough for my liking. 

thats too much of a swing for me.

had we missed, I would have given him a d+, if we make the playoffs , ill give him a c-

*results are 30% of my grade

[FredLynn]

Just now, drewski6 said:

no

Then the corollary is that you would have to admit that since he didn't do his job and obtain quality players at the deadline he did not put his team in the best possible position to win a ring. They already have a good team; they could have had a VERY good team.

[drewski6]

if we win the world series, ill give him a c and still fire him if cora tells me that he doesnt believe in breslow.

[FredLynn]

Just now, drewski6 said:

thats too much of a swing for me.

had we missed, I would have given him a d+, if we make the playoffs , ill give him a c-

*results are 30% of my grade

Is a C- GM good enough for you? 

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Obviously that was a different team with fewer needs than this one. Apples and oranges. Each team, each year, there are different needs. 

If this team makes the playoffs, Breslow was correct in thinking that deadline moves weren't going to be the difference-maker.

I realize you will now pivot to "but we could have been much better". 

[Bellhorn04]

Just now, drewski6 said:

if we win the world series, ill give him a c and still fire him if cora tells me that he doesnt believe in breslow.

That's pretty wild.

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

If this team makes the playoffs, Breslow was correct in thinking that deadline moves weren't going to be the difference-maker.

I realize you will now pivot to "but we could have been much better". 

Isn't the goal to win a ring? Did Breslow's results at the TD put his team in the best possible position to attain that goal? A yes or no will do.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

Then the corollary is that you would have to admit that since he didn't do his job and obtain quality players at the deadline he did not put his team in the best possible position to win a ring. They already have a good team; they could have had a VERY good team.

Correct.

I agree with this:

He should get negative points since he didn't do his job and obtain quality players at the deadline he did not put his team in the best possible position to win a ring

Not this: 

He should get negative points since he didn't do his job and didnt win a ring

I agree with this (had it been true):

GM X should get positive points since he did his job and obtained quality players at the deadline and put his team in the best possible position to make playoffs

Not this:

GM X should get positive points since he did his job and his team made the playoffs

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Red Sox 2007 trade deadline acquisitions were Bobby Kielty and Eric Gagne.  Amazing that Theo didn't get fired for that disaster! 😄

I guess a 1571 OPS in the playoffs means nothing now? 😮‍💨

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Is a C- GM good enough for you? 

Whether or not breslow is good enough for me, depends on whether or not hes good enough for cora.  If he won cora over, that impresses me.  If cora is just giving lip service but doesnt actually think hes the right man for the job, i fire breslow regardless of results.

Because I dont know the answer to this, im forced to guess/go by my gut.

My gut tells me that Im not a breslow guy.  But if I was owner and wanted to fire him and Cora defended him, I would u-turn.

[FredLynn]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Correct.

I agree with this:

He should get negative points since he didn't do his job and obtain quality players at the deadline he did not put his team in the best possible position to win a ring

Not this: 

He should get negative points since he didn't do his job and didnt win a ring

I agree with this (had it been true):

GM X should get positive points since he did his job and obtained quality players at the deadline and put his team in the best possible position to make playoffs

Not this:

GM X should get positive points since he did his job and his team made the playoffs

I think we have a deal! No number of quality additions guarantees a ring.

[FredLynn]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Whether or not breslow is good enough for me, depends on whether or not hes good enough for cora.  If he won cora over, that impresses me.  If cora is just giving lip service but doesnt actually think hes the right man for the job, i fire breslow regardless of results.

Because I dont know the answer to this, im forced to guess/go by my gut.

My gut tells me that Im not a breslow guy.  But if I was owner and wanted to fire him and Cora defended him, I would u-turn.

IMO Cora should have input-significant input-but not the final say.

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

If this team makes the playoffs, Breslow was correct in thinking that deadline moves weren't going to be the difference-maker.

I realize you will now pivot to "but we could have been much better". 

The difference maker could have been "playoff appearance vs World Series Championship" though. 

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That's pretty wild.

B+ for '25 offseason

A- for extensions

D for in season moves 

 

[drewski6]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I guess a 1571 OPS in the playoffs means nothing now? 😮‍💨

IS bobby kielty the one who looks like chris elliott

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Isn't the goal to win a ring? Did Breslow's results at the TD put his team in the best possible position to attain that goal? A yes or no will do.

It's a sucker question because there are too many possibilities and too many unknowns.

He could have traded the whole farm for a bat that would have marginally improved our chances.  Would you call that doing his job?

He acquired 2 players that are helping, Lowe and Matz.

I think you're over-rating the importance of the deadline.  It's rare that deadline moves push any team over the top.

Dombrowski may have done that in 2018 with Eovaldi and Pearce.  That was a great deadline.  But they don't happen often.  DD didn't do much at his other deadlines with us.