Take a bow Mr Breslow

[moonslav59]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

Yes.  But the parallels with the Nomar trade are pretty strong to this point.  It felt like a cloud was lifted when Devers was traded.  Not that he's a terrible guy, but the situation was so uncomfortable that it just always seemed to be lurking there as an unhelpful distraction and you didn't know if there was more bad stuff yet to come. 

Well said and good comp.

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

 

Okay. Higher than .840.

He is entering peak prime and CF & RF is shorter in SF than BOS.

SF has a "pitcher's park" Park Factor in the low 90s though.

[oldtimer]

17 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

There is absolutely no way--none whatsoever--Devers was going to react well to losing the 3b job which was for him a big part of how he saw himself as a MLB player.  

In fact, Cora did a great job of getting Devers to buy into the DH job, which Devers did well at.  Then came the big deal over Devers replacing Casas at 1b.  To Breslow it was reasonable.  To Devers it was being jacked around.  

I think losing Devers was inevitable the day Bregman was announced as the Sox 3d baseman.  On the other hand, I think his agent or someone convinced him that he needed to be willing to play 1b for the Giants if they asked him to.  

The Sox overall have been worlds better this season without Devers. His bat is missed, but not the other stuff. 

 

Devers awful defense at 3rd continuing season after season lost him the 3rd base job. He had a valuable, if somewhat inconsistent bat, so enter Bregman  and move Raffy to DH. It made some sense, even though we were overpaying him  to play the position. He thought the Sox as you say, Jacked him around, when they asked him to fill an urgent need. No  doubt he became a distraction in the club house. I don't think Raffy was going to earn his money going  forward so we were better off removing a $250 million liability and looking elsewhere. Lowe is in at 1st and has been a positive addition. Yoshida at DH is another story, but the options for the Sox are not good. 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

 

Okay. Higher than .840.

He is entering peak prime and CF & RF is shorter in SF than BOS.

For LHB, Fenway Park is ranked 2nd in Park Factor. Oracle Park is ranked 27th. Even though CF and RF is "shorter" in SF, it is less HR friendly (27th for HRs too) than Fenway for LHB.

[moonslav59]

52 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

For LHB, Fenway Park is ranked 2nd in Park Factor. Oracle Park is ranked 27th. Even though CF and RF is "shorter" in SF, it is less HR friendly (27th for HRs too) than Fenway for LHB.

HRs do help with OPS, but it's not everything.

Do you think SF is happy with .840?

Devers does lead the Giants in home OPS at .822 (second is .797)

He leads in away OPS, too, at .861 (second is .821)

[drewski6]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

HRs do help with OPS, but it's not everything.

Do you think SF is happy with .840?

Devers does lead the Giants in home OPS at .822 (second is .797)

He leads in away OPS, too, at .861 (second is .821)

I would be, they gave away Hicks, Tibbs and Harrison for their best hitter. This doesnt mean Im mad at the trade or that it hasnt increased our playoff chances due to the intangibles factor (all 26 pulling in the same direction)

But I reject that Devers is overpaid.  

But this has nothing to do with my lack of support for Breslow. I think Breslow is a bad communicator, and to Hicks/Hugh point earlier....I dont think you can be a bad communicator to the media.  I think you can be a bad communicator and he is and I think that it has me mixed/crossed on his tenure.  Its possible his lousy communication is why he couldnt get more done at the deadline.

[Maxbialystock]

2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

Devers awful defense at 3rd continuing season after season lost him the 3rd base job. He had a valuable, if somewhat inconsistent bat, so enter Bregman  and move Raffy to DH. It made some sense, even though we were overpaying him  to play the position. He thought the Sox as you say, Jacked him around, when they asked him to fill an urgent need. No  doubt he became a distraction in the club house. I don't think Raffy was going to earn his money going  forward so we were better off removing a $250 million liability and looking elsewhere. Lowe is in at 1st and has been a positive addition. Yoshida at DH is another story, but the options for the Sox are not good. 

Agree.  

[Maxbialystock]

10 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I would be, they gave away Hicks, Tibbs and Harrison for their best hitter. This doesnt mean Im mad at the trade or that it hasnt increased our playoff chances due to the intangibles factor (all 26 pulling in the same direction)

But I reject that Devers is overpaid.  

But this has nothing to do with my lack of support for Breslow. I think Breslow is a bad communicator, and to Hicks/Hugh point earlier....I dont think you can be a bad communicator to the media.  I think you can be a bad communicator and he is and I think that it has me mixed/crossed on his tenure.  Its possible his lousy communication is why he couldnt get more done at the deadline.

Your complaint about Breslow makes no sense.  The most important communicator on every MLB team is the manager, who talks to the media, answers questions, etc after every single game.  CBO's pronouncements do not need to be all that informative.  In fact, the less said, the better.   Do you remember what was said after JH and Breslow flew to KC to talk to Devers?  "We communicated."  

As for communicating with other teams about trades, etc,, are you unaware that Breslow transformed the Sox by bringing in Crochet, Bregman, Chapman, and Narvaez?  Also Giolito, who needed a year to recover from an injury.  Buehler bombed, agreed.  Letting Sale go was a mistake. I'm sure there were others, but this is Breslow's first CBO job and he came in knowing that JH was unlikely to return to his biggest payroll in MLB days.  This year the payroll is 12th.  

Do you remember what we all clamored for in July?  Pitching, pitching, pitching.  We didn't get a #2 starter, but right now the Sox have their best rotation--Crochet, Bello, Giolito, May, and Tolle--in a long time.  And the bullpen is pretty good too.  And, thanks to the partnership between Cora and Breslow, the defense is also the best in years.  

I will say that Breslow absolutely must be able to communicate with his manager and with those above him.  The evidence is overwhelming that he does both well.  

 

 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

HRs do help with OPS, but it's not everything.

Do you think SF is happy with .840?

Devers does lead the Giants in home OPS at .822 (second is .797)

He leads in away OPS, too, at .861 (second is .821)

You're the one who mentioned the shorter porch for some reason. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

You're the one who mentioned the shorter porch for some reason. 

I think he will hit more homers in SF park than in BOS.

I think SF expected better than .840.

I think SF thought he'd help them win more.

I think SF fans are disappointed in the team results after the trade.

If you disagree, fine.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think he will hit more homers in SF park than in BOS.

I think SF expected better than .840.

I think SF thought he'd help them win more.

I think SF fans are disappointed in the team results after the trade.

If you disagree, fine.

Why? This makes no sense per any metric. Statcast shows that even though the walls are closer at Oracle, that it's much harder to hit it out (LHB can hit some cheapies at Fenway or go Oppo to the Monster, but being on the water in SF really takes the energy out of the ball).

Do you think SF thought Devers would make their pitching go from 3.30 ERA pre-trade to 4.30 post-trade? Devers has a 1 DRS/0 OAA at 1b with SF. What is he specifically doing to make them pitch worse?

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Why? This makes no sense per any metric. Statcast shows that even though the walls are closer at Oracle, that it's much harder to hit it out (LHB can hit some cheapies at Fenway or go Oppo to the Monster, but being on the water in SF really takes the energy out of the ball).

Do you think SF thought Devers would make their pitching go from 3.30 ERA pre-trade to 4.30 post-trade? Devers has a 1 DRS/0 OAA at 1b with SF. What is he specifically doing to make them pitch worse?

I'm not sure why I answer your questions, but you don't mine.

I think he hits more homers in SF than BOS. He has 8 in 36 games. I guess that is some evidence.  (.222 vs .186 at Fenway. Yes, tiny sample size.)

I have no idea why you are asking me about devers affect on pitching. I'm just asking if fans are happy.

[Hitch]

5 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yes.  But the parallels with the Nomar trade are pretty strong to this point.  It felt like a cloud was lifted when Devers was traded.  Not that he's a terrible guy, but the situation was so uncomfortable that it just always seemed to be lurking there as an unhelpful distraction and you didn't know if there was more bad stuff yet to come. 

Like I say, I think it's a good trade for everyone. Even if we get nothing out of the return.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Like I say, I think it's a good trade for everyone. Even if we get nothing out of the return.

I see it that way, too. Something from Harrison would be nice, but not essential to making this a plus for us. I seriously doubt we make all these extensions with the Devers contract still on the books. Let's see what we do this winter with the budget.

[mvp 78]

22 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not sure why I answer your questions, but you don't mine.

I think he hits more homers in SF than BOS. He has 8 in 36 games. I guess that is some evidence.  (.222 vs .186 at Fenway. Yes, tiny sample size.)

I have no idea why you are asking me about devers affect on pitching. I'm just asking if fans are happy.

You didn't ask a question in your post. 

You are asking if fans are happy with Devers's play, which has been close to his career averages, yet you blame him for the Giants tanking. From what I've seen, most Giants fans are happy with Raffy. They have no reason not to be. They didn't give up anything of value to get him except $$$. 

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You didn't ask a question in your post. 

You are asking if fans are happy with Devers's play, which has been close to his career averages, yet you blame him for the Giants tanking. From what I've seen, most Giants fans are happy with Raffy. They have no reason not to be. They didn't give up anything of value to get him except $$$. 

Okay, right: I didn't ask a question on this thread.

Where did I blame Devers? No, I did not ask if fans are happy with Devers play.

I did ask, somewhere, if fans are happy with the results of the team after the trade. I mentioned how some fans here use wins and only wins to judge every move and how that applies to this situation.

I don't blame Devers for SF's losses. Some poster mentioned the trade was good for everyone, and I'm not so sure it was good for SFG fans. That's not blaming Devers for the winning turning into losing, but we all know fans see losing as the effect of every move made.

 

[moonslav59]

The Devers' deal still had $254M/8 left after 2025 with a $29.1 Tax hit x 8 yrs. Hicks is on the hook for $24M/2 and $10.3M on the tax line x 2 years.

I'll go my the tax numbers "savings:" basically about $19M x 2 then $29M x 6 more years, after Hicks is done.

The Crochet extension was done before the trade and amounts to a $24.5M uptick on the tax budget from 2025 to 2026. Let's not count that, unless you think we planned to trade Devers due to the Crochet extension. Here is a look at the other extensions, by tax line additions:

$16.25M Anthony x 8 years (+ 1 option year)

$7.5M Campbell x 8 year (+ 2 option years)

That's about $24M x 8 years. This total is already more than the savings from Devers-Hicks. After 2 years, there is a surplus of about $5M x 6 more years.

I'm not claiming these extensions would not have been made, but I do wonder about the Chapman one, despite is looking like a no-brainer good-for-the- club deal.

$13.3M/1 Chapman (with 1 option year.)

What will be JH's winter spending budget?

 

[Kimmi]

On 9/2/2025 at 10:27 AM, mvp 78 said:

Devers since trade: 836 OPS

Red Sox DH's not named Devers this season: 727 OPS

Devers since trade: 1.2 fWAR

Jordan Hicks since trade: -0.3 fWAR

The team would be BETTER if Devers was still here. Everytime Masa is DH'ing or Hicks is pitching, they'd be better with Devers. They went 3-7 the 10 games after trading Devers. They got better because they promoted Anthony, not because they traded Devers. Anthony and Devers could have been on the same team. Breslow just didn't like the contract. 

I agree that the trade was a salary dump. SFG dumped Hicks onto BOS. 

Since promoting Roman Anthony, the Red Sox are 45-27. 

Devers has heated up, which is not surprising.  I don't think anyone doubted that he would hit.  Consequently, the Giants have been winning more games.  Good for them.

All that said, you are not going to convince me, even if we disregard that monstrous contract, that trading Devers was a bad idea.  The Red Sox playing well since trading Devers is about more than just the promotion of Anthony, IMO.

[Kimmi]

On 9/2/2025 at 1:27 PM, drewski6 said:

Bresbot , to me, is already well defined. Hes a less likeable ben cherington.  

I happen to like Breslow and Cherington, not to mention Bloom.  

[moonslav59]

I never thought that being charming and personable was an important trait of a good GM/CBO.

Just make good moves- significantly more than bad or neutral ones. Do the best with the situation and circumstances handed to you. Usually that will translate to wins, but sometimes the circumstances are so overwhelming, some slack is needed on the winning element of grading out a GM.

[mvp 78]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I never thought that being charming and personable was an important trait of a good GM/CBO.

Just make good moves- significantly more than bad or neutral ones. Do the best with the situation and circumstances handed to you. Usually that will translate to wins, but sometimes the circumstances are so overwhelming, some slack is needed on the winning element of grading out a GM.

Needs to be able to work well with the manager and anyone other front office people both inside the org and outside the org. If you can't do those things at the very least, you need to build a support system around yourself that can do that for you IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

Breslow is not a robot, he's just a super-brainy guy who needs to work on his communication skills a bit.  

This is a man who played 12 MLB seasons and won a title.  We're actually pretty fortunate to have someone with that kind of experience in the game plus the brain he has.  

And once again my attitude might be affected by winning the last couple of games. 🙂

[moonslav59]

On 9/3/2025 at 11:26 AM, drewski6 said:

 Its possible his lousy communication is why he couldnt get more done at the deadline.

I'm not buying that.

I think he sets a firm offering price and won't budge.

He got a lot done over the winter, made a huge summer trade. I think he sticks to the idea that overpaying for deadline deals should be avoided and to make most deals in the winter, It's not a bad strategy.

I do wish he'd done more at the deadline (like get Joe Ryan or M Keller.) I do not think he should be fired for not doing a deal none of us know what the return was to be.

[notin]

On 9/3/2025 at 8:38 AM, Bellhorn04 said:

Yes.  But the parallels with the Nomar trade are pretty strong to this point.  It felt like a cloud was lifted when Devers was traded.  Not that he's a terrible guy, but the situation was so uncomfortable that it just always seemed to be lurking there as an unhelpful distraction and you didn't know if there was more bad stuff yet to come. 

Or the AGon/Crawford trade where the Sox unloaded a boatload of salary commitments for absolutely nothing.  I think the most productive player they acquired was Wade Miley, who was only linked to that trade indirectly (acquired from RHPs Rubby De La Rosa and Allen Webster, both of whom were acquired from LAD) and who still stunk ( and was apparently a very unpleasant human being).

[drewski6]

17 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I never thought that being charming and personable was an important trait of a good GM/CBO.

Just make good moves- significantly more than bad or neutral ones. Do the best with the situation and circumstances handed to you. Usually that will translate to wins, but sometimes the circumstances are so overwhelming, some slack is needed on the winning element of grading out a GM.

Your interpersonal skills are your most important skills, my most important skills, and yes even a GM'CBOs most important skill

Maybe not as a player, but right now - hes a suit, and there isnt a suit job in the world where being able to communicate and lead are not super important.

[drewski6]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Needs to be able to work well with the manager and anyone other front office people both inside the org and outside the org. If you can't do those things at the very least, you need to build a support system around yourself that can do that for you IMO.

you wont be able to build a good team if you cant communicate well and you lack interpersonal skills.
 

[drewski6]

90% of how far you will go in life is your ability to communicate

[notin]

Just now, drewski6 said:

you wont be able to build a good team if you cant communicate well and you lack interpersonal skills.
 

Does he?  What are we basing this on? Hopefully not TV appearances.

Theres a big difference between having interpersonal skills and handling yourself in a press conference.  I speak from experience.  Always had some social awkwardness, but I was always and still am a terrific public speaker.  Go figure…

[drewski6]

"He has better interpersonal skills than you may think" is a much better defense than he doesnt need those skills

-A superior baseball  life mind

[drewski6]

everybody needs interpersonal skills, they are hugely important. And if someone doesnt have them, their existence will include a lot of flamed out relationships, depression and loneliness.  Yes, this will ultimately effect ones job performance.