Article: Jarren Duran Needs a Change of Scenery

[dgalehouse]

Trading Duran seems like a bad idea to me. What this team needs is for him to get hot and add some life to this offense. 

[jdc69]

2 hours ago, JerryL1042 said:

Here's a novel idea instead of trading him have the coaching staff work with him on his weaknesses. Last time I checked that's what they are being paid to do. If they can't do their jobs maybe they should be the ones moved.

If they dont know that's there jobs, Duran shouldn't walk away, he should run. The whole team should follow him too. Its not the coaches though, it's Cora purposely losing close games by taking pitchers out too early. Its the FO trading their best player.....just when they seem to be doing good and sweeping their arch nemesis. All of the Red Sox suck at D. Do you really think it's because of the individual players skill level? 

[TedYazPapiMookie]

4 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We don't know that they're not doing their jobs, though.  Maybe Duran just doesn't take instruction well, or maybe he has a hard time keeping his head in the game.  

Then why was 2024 an all-star year?  Did he suddenly take instruction well and then forget how to take instruction?  Or maybe, he has issues with playing LF where he has failed on defense compared to CF and his defensive issues have carried over into his hitting.  He's made TWO errors in 550 chances in CF.  That's his normal and comfortable position.  Cora keeps putting round pegs in square holes because he has no idea what he is doing.  Fire Cora and I guarantee Duran will significantly improve, just like Sale did when he got away from Cora.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

4 hours ago, Alex Mayes said:

I think that’s where we’re at with Duran. It seems pretty obvious last year was an outlier and this is his actual ceiling. If teams want to pay for him, send him on. 

All your writing has bashed Duran so your comment here is no surprise.  Wake up and smell the roses.  This guy has been tortured by a prejudicial manager who isn't qualified for his job.  He overcame Cora's treatment one time, I believe he will make another comeback from Cora's idiocy again.  As soon as Duran gets comfortable being the fastest guy in the outfield playing in LF at Fenway his errors will lessen, and his hitting will return to normal. 

Fire the buffoon manager and several players will improve immediately and some will drop off.  Those that will improve are the ones that have been treated like crap by Cora.  They include Duran, Rafaela, Campbell, Houck, Crawford, Buehler, Hendriks and Casas.  Those that will show drop-offs because the next manager won't pamper them are - Abreu, Hamilton, Wong, Bello, Whitlock, Newcomb, Bernadino and Winckowski.  Dig deep and I think you will find a theme in those names that has existed since the cheater arrived in Boston in 2018. 

There is a very simple solution here and it doesn't involve Duran in any way!!  

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Then why was 2024 an all-star year?  Did he suddenly take instruction well and then forget how to take instruction?  Or maybe, he has issues with playing LF where he has failed on defense compared to CF and his defensive issues have carried over into his hitting.  He's made TWO errors in 550 chances in CF.  That's his normal and comfortable position.  Cora keeps putting round pegs in square holes because he has no idea what he is doing.  Fire Cora and I guarantee Duran will significantly improve, just like Sale did when he got away from Cora.

Duran LF '24 611 Innings 3 OAA

Duran LF '25 665 Innings -4 OAA

Duran playing his natural position of CF

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

All your writing has bashed Duran so your comment here is no surprise.  Wake up and smell the roses.  This guy has been tortured by a prejudicial manager who isn't qualified for his job.  He overcame Cora's treatment one time, I believe he will make another comeback from Cora's idiocy again. 

This is what Cora said about Duran being selected to the ASG:

"And we got one more. When we talk about consistency and posting and playing the game right, this guy is (expletive) amazing. We got kids here, and I bet if you want your kids to become big leaguers and play the game the right way, you're going to tell them, 'Take a look at Jarren Duran.' (expletive) All-Star."

Talk about being tortured! That's some rough treatment! 

[moonslav59]

To me, trading Duran over Abreu or Rafaela has always made more sense.

Age

Value in return

Anthony plays LF, but can also play RF, unlike Duran.

Jh Garcia is making a serious move is a more recent reason added on.

What would Philly want added to Duran for us to get Painter?

Any other young pitchers we could get for Duran & ____?

[moonslav59]

Now, the other side of me.

Sox fWAR leaders since 2024:

7.5 Duran

6.2 Devers (just traded)

4.3 Abreu (platoon player)

2.9 Rafaela (FT CF'er, now)

2.5 O'Neill (gone)

2.4 Bregman (prorates to about equal value as Duran)

2.4 Narvaez (prorates to about equal value as Duran)

2.1 Refsnyder (platoon player)

1.3 DHam and 1.1 Story

On a team with a hurting offense, here are the OPS leaders since 2024:

.938 Bregman (BOS only)

.883 Devers (gone)

.851 Refsnyder (short side platoon)

.847 O'Neill (gone)

.795 Duran (Can't afford to trade him)

.795 Toro (Is he for real?)

.786 Abreu (long side platoon)

.785 Narvaez (small sample size)

.765 Yoshida

.754 Romy, .730 Casas, ,712 Wong, .679 Rafaela, .662 Story

When you factor in Duran's base stealing skills, can we really trade a top 3 offensive player, now ot this winter?

 

[Alex Mayes]

15 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

To me, trading Duran over Abreu or Rafaela has always made more sense.

Age

Value in return

Anthony plays LF, but can also play RF, unlike Duran.

Jh Garcia is making a serious move is a more recent reason added on.

What would Philly want added to Duran for us to get Painter?

Any other young pitchers we could get for Duran & ____?

This is my stance as well. I’ve never once “bashed” Duran. In fact, I’ve talked at length on the podcast about how much I actually like him and how he was kind enough to have a brief conversation with me last season when the Sox were in STL.

That being said, I want the team to improve and I’d rather have an outfield or Anthony, Rafaela, and Abreu because their collective ceiling is higher. If Davy D is willing to overpay for Duran, send him packing because it makes the team better in the long run. Duran also doesn’t have the arm to play right field or a stable centerfield at home games. 

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Alex Mayes said:

This is my stance as well. I’ve never once “bashed” Duran. In fact, I’ve talked at length on the podcast about how much I actually like him and how he was kind enough to have a brief conversation with me last season when the Sox were in STL.

That being said, I want the team to improve and I’d rather have an outfield or Anthony, Rafaela, and Abreu because their collective ceiling is higher. If Davy D is willing to overpay for Duran, send him packing because it makes the team better in the long run. Duran also doesn’t have the arm to play right field or a stable centerfield at home games. 

I agree. Add to this the swift rise of Jh Garcia, Campbell looking more like a 1Bman or CF'er than a 2Bman and possible return of Refsnyder in 2026, the OF is just too crowded to not trade someone.

Is wanting Abreu traded over Duran "bashing" him? I don't think so.

I hate trading Duran. His speed, alone, makes him a weapon we have not seen since Ellsbury. He's also got some power and OB skills. I'm not for handing him away. I'm asking for a solid SP'er in return, and we all know how much value they have. it's actually praising Duran to say I think his value is high enough to net us a solid pitcher.

[Duran Is The Man]

18 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I agree. Add to this the swift rise of Jh Garcia, Campbell looking more like a 1Bman or CF'er than a 2Bman and possible return of Refsnyder in 2026, the OF is just too crowded to not trade someone.

Is wanting Abreu traded over Duran "bashing" him? I don't think so.

I hate trading Duran. His speed, alone, makes him a weapon we have not seen since Ellsbury. He's also got some power and OB skills. I'm not for handing him away. I'm asking for a solid SP'er in return, and we all know how much value they have. it's actually praising Duran to say I think his value is high enough to net us a solid pitcher.

i have absolutely zero confidence the front office will trade him for anything worth a s***. none.

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i have absolutely zero confidence the front office will trade him for anything worth a s***. none.

That's the scary thing.

Standing pat looks scary, too.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

5 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

This is what Cora said about Duran being selected to the ASG:

"And we got one more. When we talk about consistency and posting and playing the game right, this guy is (expletive) amazing. We got kids here, and I bet if you want your kids to become big leaguers and play the game the right way, you're going to tell them, 'Take a look at Jarren Duran.' (expletive) All-Star."

Talk about being tortured! That's some rough treatment! 

You're the master of bs.  You constantly write things that are taken out of context to misguide readers WOW 

First, besides being ignorant by not referencing what I wrote about, your quote references a comment that doesn't apply to the topic discussed.  That's called "AN OUT OF CONTEXT COMMENT" which you specialize in.  The Cora reference is in relationship to him KNOWING HIS COMMENT WAS TRUE ABOUT CF but not about LF and playing him there anyway.  That makes Cora either uninformed or a total jerk, you make the choice, I think he's both.

Second, the guy has 550 total chances in CF, and you pull up a video from when he was learning CF and lost sight of the ball, a common problem to even the best centerfielders.  I've seen Trout have the same problem, but LAA fans aren't jerks because they understand the game and every once in a long while it happens.  You, however, reference that video to humiliate a player for your own gratification?  What's wrong with you?

The facts are 2 errors in 550 total chances.  Stick that in your library of facts so you don't embarrass yourself again about Duran and CF.  

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

To me, trading Duran over Abreu or Rafaela has always made more sense.

Age

Value in return

Anthony plays LF, but can also play RF, unlike Duran.

Jh Garcia is making a serious move is a more recent reason added on.

What would Philly want added to Duran for us to get Painter?

Any other young pitchers we could get for Duran & ____?

BTV says Duran for Painter is equal value, but Philly says Painter is untouchable 

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, notin said:

BTV says Duran for Painter is equal value, but Philly says Painter is untouchable 

Some people think Duran should be untouchable.

My thought is it will probably take Duran, Romero & Sandlin to get Painter.

Just a guess.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

1 hour ago, Alex Mayes said:

This is my stance as well. I’ve never once “bashed” Duran. In fact, I’ve talked at length on the podcast about how much I actually like him and how he was kind enough to have a brief conversation with me last season when the Sox were in STL.

That being said, I want the team to improve and I’d rather have an outfield or Anthony, Rafaela, and Abreu because their collective ceiling is higher. If Davy D is willing to overpay for Duran, send him packing because it makes the team better in the long run. Duran also doesn’t have the arm to play right field or a stable centerfield at home games. 

I have no idea how long you've been a fan but if it's been at least 10 years then you should remember two really distinct issues that the team had over the last decade:

1 - They lost Papi after the 2016 season and in 2017 the team was excellent under DD but there was NOBODY that could replace Papi, so DD got JD Martinez for the 2018 season and things clicked.

2 - The great run of winning under DD happened with a kid named Mookie Betts batting lead-off.  Then in 2019 Cora screwed up with the pitchers by asking that they report 2 weeks late to Spring Training because they pitched in November.  In addition, Cora the inexperienced manager hurt the team with another off-season decision, he changed the batting order from the one that won the World Series. (ha-ha what an idiot).  He took Mookie out of the lead-off position and put Benny there.   The Red Sox struggled many games on the west coast road trip with the new line-up.  It simply didn't work not having Mookie lead off.

Ever since Mookie was given away in 2020 the Red Sox lacked an effective lead-off man until Cora finally gave Duran a chance after he relegated him to the 9th hole in 2021 then sent him down to AAA not to resurface until June of 2022.  At that time, he proved what some of us already knew, Duran was the best possible lead-off man on the roster as well as the best base stealer and best defensive outfielder despite a couple of early issues as he got familiar with CF in Fenway.   Rafaela came up and it should have been obvious to astute baseball fans that he was nearly as fast as Duran, a comparable defender with a stronger arm so he was perfect for RF.  Cora doesn't have the baseball acumen to figure out such simple deductions so instead he weakened the defense by moving Duran to LF and putting Rafaela in CF leaving the weakest defender to compete against the really bad RF defenders where he won a GG for being the best of the worst just like Verdugo almost did when he played RF.  Abreu was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to steal a gold glove award just like Verdugo almost did.

Here are the two key points to this discussion:

(1) The Lead Off spot is still Duran's because since they moved him off the spot, the team hasn't won a game

(2) To maximize the defense Roman must player LF, Duran CF and Rafaela RF.  That leaves Refsnyder the 4th outfielder because he can face righty and lefty pitchers and not have a massive drop-off while Abreu is completely inept at facing left-handed pitchers so WHO GOES is obvious if Abreu isn't used as the DH. 

Abreu is the obvious choice for who goes.  He has the least to offer of the five outfielders with Anthony probably having the most and Duran and Rafaela being a close 2nd and Refsnyder having the fourth most since he doesn't have to sit 40% of the time since he can hit both RH and LH pitchers unlike Abreu.

[notin]

8 hours ago, dgalehouse said:

Trading Duran seems like a bad idea to me. What this team needs is for him to get hot and add some life to this offense. 

Depends what they get for him…

[moonslav59]

2022-2025 OF Splits:

v R

.840 Duran

.835 Abreu

.810 Yoshida (DH only?)

.687 Rafaela

.683 Refsnyder

vs L

.927 Refsnyder

.669 Yoshida

.653 Rafaela

.625 Duran

.553 Abreu

Defense in OF:

DRS (Innings in OF) Player OAA

+25 (1634) Abreu +9

+23 (1395) Rafaela +17

+12 (3307) Duran +4

-4 (714) Yoshida -9

-8 (1407) Refsnyder -9

[curbsidecorgi67]

How the f*** did we go from Jarren Duran getting MVP votes to Jarren Duran the "late inning replacement" in the span of 80 games. 

 

 

[Hitch]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

That's the scary thing.

Standing pat looks scary, too.

Like all GM's there's risk. Breslow traded for Crochet, Narvaez and O'Neil. But he also traded for Grissom and Danny Jansen and the bullpen boys last year. 

There's always a risk.

[Bellhorn04]

4 hours ago, curbsidecorgi67 said:

How the f*** did we go from Jarren Duran getting MVP votes to Jarren Duran the "late inning replacement" in the span of 80 games. 

 

 

Late bloomer - one exceptional season - seems to have focus issues.

But there are probably bigger questions lurking about the Sox coaching and player development, questions it's pretty hard for any of us to answer.

[Alex Mayes]

11 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

I have no idea how long you've been a fan but if it's been at least 10 years then you should remember two really distinct issues that the team had over the last decade:

1 - They lost Papi after the 2016 season and in 2017 the team was excellent under DD but there was NOBODY that could replace Papi, so DD got JD Martinez for the 2018 season and things clicked.

2 - The great run of winning under DD happened with a kid named Mookie Betts batting lead-off.  Then in 2019 Cora screwed up with the pitchers by asking that they report 2 weeks late to Spring Training because they pitched in November.  In addition, Cora the inexperienced manager hurt the team with another off-season decision, he changed the batting order from the one that won the World Series. (ha-ha what an idiot).  He took Mookie out of the lead-off position and put Benny there.   The Red Sox struggled many games on the west coast road trip with the new line-up.  It simply didn't work not having Mookie lead off.

Ever since Mookie was given away in 2020 the Red Sox lacked an effective lead-off man until Cora finally gave Duran a chance after he relegated him to the 9th hole in 2021 then sent him down to AAA not to resurface until June of 2022.  At that time, he proved what some of us already knew, Duran was the best possible lead-off man on the roster as well as the best base stealer and best defensive outfielder despite a couple of early issues as he got familiar with CF in Fenway.   Rafaela came up and it should have been obvious to astute baseball fans that he was nearly as fast as Duran, a comparable defender with a stronger arm so he was perfect for RF.  Cora doesn't have the baseball acumen to figure out such simple deductions so instead he weakened the defense by moving Duran to LF and putting Rafaela in CF leaving the weakest defender to compete against the really bad RF defenders where he won a GG for being the best of the worst just like Verdugo almost did when he played RF.  Abreu was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time to steal a gold glove award just like Verdugo almost did.

Here are the two key points to this discussion:

(1) The Lead Off spot is still Duran's because since they moved him off the spot, the team hasn't won a game

(2) To maximize the defense Roman must player LF, Duran CF and Rafaela RF.  That leaves Refsnyder the 4th outfielder because he can face righty and lefty pitchers and not have a massive drop-off while Abreu is completely inept at facing left-handed pitchers so WHO GOES is obvious if Abreu isn't used as the DH. 

Abreu is the obvious choice for who goes.  He has the least to offer of the five outfielders with Anthony probably having the most and Duran and Rafaela being a close 2nd and Refsnyder having the fourth most since he doesn't have to sit 40% of the time since he can hit both RH and LH pitchers unlike Abreu.

The only thing I’ll respond to here is your first point. They haven’t lost every game Duran hasn’t be the lead off hitter. In fact, they swept the Yankees while he wasn’t leading off. 

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Some people think Duran should be untouchable.

My thought is it will probably take Duran, Romero & Sandlin to get Painter.

Just a guess.

DD doesn't care about prospects that much. He cares about winning now. 

[Hitch]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

DD doesn't care about prospects that much. He cares about winning now. 

Also, I was listening to him on The Athletics' Starskville pod. They're in love with their pitching - he ain't giving any up, and he said they want a RH bat and pen help.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Also, I was listening to him on The Athletics' Starskville pod. They're in love with their pitching - he ain't giving any up, and he said they want a RH bat and pen help.

If he wants a guy that can OPS 975+ vs LHP, we got a few of those. Probably don't cost much.  

[moonslav59]

53 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

DD doesn't care about prospects that much. He cares about winning now. 

Yup.

Playing it halfway gets you halfway to 1.000, as in a .500 team.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Late bloomer - one exceptional season - seems to have focus issues.

But there are probably bigger questions lurking about the Sox coaching and player development, questions it's pretty hard for any of us to answer.

Ellsbury reincarnated.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

3 hours ago, Alex Mayes said:

The only thing I’ll respond to here is your first point. They haven’t lost every game Duran hasn’t be the lead off hitter. In fact, they swept the Yankees while he wasn’t leading off. 

True.  I worked backwards from our last game.  I forgot the goofy line-up against the Yankees.  We catch the Yankees the last several years when they are weak early in the season and then get clobbered late.  Let's hope in Sept he runs that same line-up out there to prove the point.  He needs Duran at the top of the order.  The 3-game sample size of success versus the 4 games sample size of losses is still a lower winning percentage than when Duran is the leadoff man.  I do apologize for the oversight on the Yankee series.  I should have gone back farther.  Once I saw Duran at the leadoff spot I stopped.

It's disappointing to not get your input on the second point but as a writer you are trying to please the masses and lots of folks are extremely vocal about the second topic.  Thanks for your answer and please realize that when your choices are limited and the team has failed badly prior to Duran, staying with Duran and supporting him rather than tearing him down would be the smart way to go for the manager and fans.

[drewski6]

18 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Now, the other side of me.

Sox fWAR leaders since 2024:

7.5 Duran

6.2 Devers (just traded)

4.3 Abreu (platoon player)

2.9 Rafaela (FT CF'er, now)

2.5 O'Neill (gone)

2.4 Bregman (prorates to about equal value as Duran)

2.4 Narvaez (prorates to about equal value as Duran)

2.1 Refsnyder (platoon player)

1.3 DHam and 1.1 Story

On a team with a hurting offense, here are the OPS leaders since 2024:

.938 Bregman (BOS only)

.883 Devers (gone)

.851 Refsnyder (short side platoon)

.847 O'Neill (gone)

.795 Duran (Can't afford to trade him)

.795 Toro (Is he for real?)

.786 Abreu (long side platoon)

.785 Narvaez (small sample size)

.765 Yoshida

.754 Romy, .730 Casas, ,712 Wong, .679 Rafaela, .662 Story

When you factor in Duran's base stealing skills, can we really trade a top 3 offensive player, now ot this winter?

 

keep subtracting offensive talent, keep being stuck in neutral.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

keep subtracting offensive talent, keep being stuck in neutral.

I totally agree, and even if Duran never comes close to these numbers, again, he will still likely be a top 5-6 offensive player on this team: better than Rafaela, better than the kids, for at least a year or two, better than Story and better than a Narvaez-Wong combo. Better than Casas.

Only Bregman and the Abreu-Ref look like sure bets at being batter at the plate. Duran's speed might jump him over those two for total offensive value, going forward.

Trading our 2nd or 3rd best offensive player needs to bring back a very special player, and they we have to cross our fingers on Rafaela, Abreu, Anthony, Garcia or maybe Ref/Masa/Campbell.

That being said, I have to think about this:

We trade Duran, Romero and Sandlin for a solid Pitcher. How much is that upgrade worth over Buehler or Fitts? Now, weigh that vs the downgrade from Duran in LF to Anthony/Garcia/Campbell. One could argue, it's worth the trade.