Passan: Boston Red Sox Optioning Kristian Campbell

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hamilton was good in 2024.  He had a 2.6 bWAR in about half a season's work.

He had a good half season and was bad the other half. He’s working on another bad half in ‘25.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

He had a good half season and was bad the other half. He’s working on another bad half in ‘25.

It wasn't really even a full half season in '24. It was about 2 months. (4/25>6/64)

.844 for 42 games. (132 PAs)

.553 in the 36 PAs beforehand.

.602 in 149 PAs afterwards - a larger sample size than his "good stretch."

[Hitch]

A little surprised to see people still questioning the Campbell relegation. 

He's stopped hitting the ball in the air and he has been absolutely terrible defensively (some of this is down to him being shuttled around to so many positions in his young career already, I'm sure).

A reset and learning a position (1B hopefully) will do him the world of good. He'll be back, but he needed the move. 

[Hitch]

As for Hamilton - I still have some faith left in him. He has been very poor, but it must be hard to get any rhythm, without the tiny amount of gametime he was getting first 6 weeks of the season.

He's got wheels and that isn't nothing. but hopefully he can start getting back to some better play. He won't be long for us if not.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hamilton was good in 2024.  He had a 2.6 bWAR in about half a season's work.

That's called CHERRY PICKING!!! hahaha  The act of selecting data that is segmented to support your theory.

Campbell is 23 and Hamilton is 27.  Let's for fun do a complete analysis comparison the good versus the bad.

Campbell in the minors - 606 at bats in 138 games .325/.439/.543/.982 27 sbs  - THE GOOD

Hamilton in the minors - 1479 at bats in 328 games 251/.346/.420/.766 179 sbs - THE BAD except SBs

Campbell in the majors - 220 at bats in 67 games .223/.319/.345/.664 2 sbs

Hamilton in the majors - 427 at bats in 164 games .222/.278/.356/.634 47 sbs

 

Since Campbell has played so little let's break it down monthly

 Mar/Apr - Campbell - .301/.407/.495/.902   Hamilton - .147/.216/.250/.466   HUGE DIFFERENCE

May - Campbell - .134/.184/.171/.355/   Hamilton - .299/.340/.433/.733   AGAIN HUGE DIFFERENCE

June - Campbell - .205/.340/.318/.658   Hamilton - .219/.262/.378/.640 COMPARABLY BAD

July - Hamilton - .182/.250/.247/.497 SUB .200 BAD

August - Hamilton - .242/.315/.439/.754   ONE TIME POWER BURST REDEEMS SUB PAR MONTH

So, did Hamilton have a GOOD 2024 like you are suggesting or did he have a GOOD MAY and pretty much suck the rest of the months he played?

Campbell had one excellent month, one average month and one bad month so far and far, far exceeded Hamilton in the minors and is 4 years younger.

Is it Hamilton's mediocre performance in nearly 1500 minor league at bats that impresses you so much or is it his May of 2024 performance that does?  Isn't it weird how different the picture is if you look at the whole picture and not cherry pick the data that supports your point only?

 

 

[Deja Doh]

Hamilton is a very good defensive player around the infield, but a poor hitter.  Campbell has a much better upside as a hitter, But he hasn't had to struggle until now.  So hopefully a short stay at AAA.  As for Mayer and Anthony too early to tell.

[Bellhorn04]

39 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

That's called CHERRY PICKING!!! hahaha  The act of selecting data that is segmented to support your theory.

Campbell is 23 and Hamilton is 27.  Let's for fun do a complete analysis comparison the good versus the bad.

Campbell in the minors - 606 at bats in 138 games .325/.439/.543/.982 27 sbs  - THE GOOD

Hamilton in the minors - 1479 at bats in 328 games 251/.346/.420/.766 179 sbs - THE BAD except SBs

Campbell in the majors - 220 at bats in 67 games .223/.319/.345/.664 2 sbs

Hamilton in the majors - 427 at bats in 164 games .222/.278/.356/.634 47 sbs

 

Since Campbell has played so little let's break it down monthly

 Mar/Apr - Campbell - .301/.407/.495/.902   Hamilton - .147/.216/.250/.466   HUGE DIFFERENCE

May - Campbell - .134/.184/.171/.355/   Hamilton - .299/.340/.433/.733   AGAIN HUGE DIFFERENCE

June - Campbell - .205/.340/.318/.658   Hamilton - .219/.262/.378/.640 COMPARABLY BAD

July - Hamilton - .182/.250/.247/.497 SUB .200 BAD

August - Hamilton - .242/.315/.439/.754   ONE TIME POWER BURST REDEEMS SUB PAR MONTH

So, did Hamilton have a GOOD 2024 like you are suggesting or did he have a GOOD MAY and pretty much suck the rest of the months he played?

Campbell had one excellent month, one average month and one bad month so far and far, far exceeded Hamilton in the minors and is 4 years younger.

Is it Hamilton's mediocre performance in nearly 1500 minor league at bats that impresses you so much or is it his May of 2024 performance that does?  Isn't it weird how different the picture is if you look at the whole picture and not cherry pick the data that supports your point only?

 

 

You have to be kidding.  You're the one cherry picking by leaving out Hamilton's defensive value and his speed value. 

[moonslav59]

Nobody is bragging about DHam's O. 

[TedYazPapiMookie]

7 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

You have to be kidding.  You're the one cherry picking by leaving out Hamilton's defensive value and his speed value. 

I was being a nice guy and not further proving my point but if you insist!!!

Hamilton Major Leagues

SS - 10 Errors in 270 chances fielding % of .963 with league average of .973 

2B - 7 Errors in 273 chances fielding % of .974 with league average of .983 (9 points below LgAvg)

Campbell Major Leagues

SS - Campbell not allowed to play his primary position

2B - 7 Errors in 222 chances fielding % of .968 with league average of .982 (14 points below LgAvg)

CF - 0 Errors in 10 chances fielding % of 1.000 with league average of .989 

LF - 0 Errors in 3 chances fielding % of 1.000 with league average of .983

Campbell hasn't played 2B for 3 seasons like Hamilton, so his sample size is very small, but you obviously go to great lengths to try to prove points.  Most people consider this too small but let's not because despite it being small it's fairly comparable to Hamilton's which negates any added benefit from Hamilton's defense especially when you consider he's play SS more and he's a butcher at SS. 

Count the games at SS and its Advantage Campbell!!! 

Also, if Campbell gets 53 more chances without an error, they would be identical and both would be below league average.  The big difference is Hamilton is better at 2B than SS and Campbell grew up as a SS not a 2B.

 

Wait, we need to add stolen bases!!!  That surely should make up the enormous difference in their hitting!!

Will Hamilton be allowed to steal first base in the future?  Since he's batting .180 with an OBP of .212 he only gets a chance to steal roughly 21 percent of his Plate Appearances.  BUT if he's on the roster as a pinch runner which is what he is most suited for then he could be on base EVERY game or close to it, stealing once a game!!

Most people don't bother to suggest the impact of SBs on guys who can't hit .200, you must be really desperate.  

So, in summary, GREAT POINT about the defense and stolen bases.  That really sways the argument the other way!!! hahaha

 

Since you always expect a Cora shot in my comments, here it is:

Look at Hamilton's performance at SS in both the minors and majors.  He stunk, badly.  Do you know how many games Cora has played him at SS?  84 compared to his 78 at 2B where he is far better.  Great manager? I think NOT.

FYI - Hamilton Minor League Defensive Stats

SS - 37 Errors in 871 chances fielding% of .958 (About the same as Mayer, well below league average)

2B - 8 Errors in 369 chances fielding % of .978 (A bit below league average and clearly his better position)

 

[moonslav59]

36 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

I was being a nice guy and not further proving my point but if you insist!!!

Hamilton Major Leagues

SS - 10 Errors in 270 chances fielding % of .963 with league average of .973 

2B - 7 Errors in 273 chances fielding % of .974 with league average of .983 (9 points below LgAvg)

Campbell Major Leagues

SS - Campbell not allowed to play his primary position

2B - 7 Errors in 222 chances fielding % of .968 with league average of .982 (14 points below LgAvg)

CF - 0 Errors in 10 chances fielding % of 1.000 with league average of .989 

LF - 0 Errors in 3 chances fielding % of 1.000 with league average of .983

Campbell hasn't played 2B for 3 seasons like Hamilton, so his sample size is very small, but you obviously go to great lengths to try to prove points.  Most people consider this too small but let's not because despite it being small it's fairly comparable to Hamilton's which negates any added benefit from Hamilton's defense especially when you consider he's play SS more and he's a butcher at SS. 

Count the games at SS and its Advantage Campbell!!! 

Also, if Campbell gets 53 more chances without an error, they would be identical and both would be below league average.  The big difference is Hamilton is better at 2B than SS and Campbell grew up as a SS not a 2B.

 

Wait, we need to add stolen bases!!!  That surely should make up the enormous difference in their hitting!!

Will Hamilton be allowed to steal first base in the future?  Since he's batting .180 with an OBP of .212 he only gets a chance to steal roughly 21 percent of his Plate Appearances.  BUT if he's on the roster as a pinch runner which is what he is most suited for then he could be on base EVERY game or close to it, stealing once a game!!

Most people don't bother to suggest the impact of SBs on guys who can't hit .200, you must be really desperate.  

So, in summary, GREAT POINT about the defense and stolen bases.  That really sways the argument the other way!!! hahaha

 

Since you always expect a Cora shot in my comments, here it is:

Look at Hamilton's performance at SS in both the minors and majors.  He stunk, badly.  Do you know how many games Cora has played him at SS?  84 compared to his 78 at 2B where he is far better.  Great manager? I think NOT.

FYI - Hamilton Minor League Defensive Stats

SS - 37 Errors in 871 chances fielding% of .958 (About the same as Mayer, well below league average)

2B - 8 Errors in 369 chances fielding % of .978 (A bit below league average and clearly his better position)

 

Talk about cherry picking and then you add the what ifs on top of the cherry.

You chose Fldg % as the be all end all, and DHam is better than KC at 2B. Period. That has ended past discussions with you, as you claim it is all that matters. Now, it doesn't, because it suits your position.

Nobody liked DHam as our 2Bman. Nobody.

Nobody says he is a good hitter. Nobody.

Nobody says KC is a bad player, only that he was playing badly for about 6-8 weeks,

You are the only one denying DHam is a better defensive 2Bman,

You are the only one ignoring the baserunning plus DHam has.

You are the one ignoring that KC was not going to play even half the games, so it made sense to send him to a place where he will play everyday and hopefully get out of his funk without hurting the big club in the process.

What a bunch of mental gymnastics. It's comical, but in a tragic way,,, not ha-ha way.

[illinoisredsox]

The silliest thing about TYPM’s rebuttal is this insistence that Campbell hasn’t been allowed to play his primary position, which somehow TYPM thinks is SS.  He hasn’t played short regularly since high school.  KC has played in 36 professional game at short, starting 32 of them; he played none there in college (yeah, yeah, we know, upper classman).  He has played in 144 professional games at 2B, starting 102 of them. Almost all of his college games were at second with a very few games in the of. Since graduating high school, if he has a primary position, it’s second base.

The funniest line is he acknowledges Hamilton is better at 2B than SS (nobody’s going to argue that) while lamenting that Campbell grew up a SS.  News flash ace, so did Hamilton and Gonzalez and virtually every other right handed infielder in MLB and a lot of the right handed outfielders as well.

But somehow TYPM knows better than all the people actually paid to decide those things.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

5 hours ago, illinoisredsox said:

The silliest thing about TYPM’s rebuttal is this insistence that Campbell hasn’t been allowed to play his primary position, which somehow TYPM thinks is SS.  He hasn’t played short regularly since high school.  KC has played in 36 professional game at short, starting 32 of them; he played none there in college (yeah, yeah, we know, upper classman).  He has played in 144 professional games at 2B, starting 102 of them. Almost all of his college games were at second with a very few games in the of. Since graduating high school, if he has a primary position, it’s second base.

The funniest line is he acknowledges Hamilton is better at 2B than SS (nobody’s going to argue that) while lamenting that Campbell grew up a SS.  News flash ace, so did Hamilton and Gonzalez and virtually every other right handed infielder in MLB and a lot of the right handed outfielders as well.

But somehow TYPM knows better than all the people actually paid to decide those things.

I can't find the actual statistics on bb-ref or fangraphs, so let's poll the board:

For anyone who has ever played or watched Little League... what percentage of the best players would you say played shortstop -- when they weren't pitching or catching?

1. 75%

2. 85%

3. 95%

4. kajillion

[mvp 78]

25 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I can't find the actual statistics on bb-ref or fangraphs, so let's poll the board:

For anyone who has ever played or watched Little League... what percentage of the best players would you say played shortstop -- when they weren't pitching or catching?

1. 75%

2. 85%

3. 95%

4. kajillion

Some of the best players were taller 1b/3b that also pitched. I'd say it was closer to 50%. It depends on what your definition of "best" is. Your best defender would be at shortstop. 

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Some of the best players were taller 1b/3b that also pitched. I'd say it was closer to 50%. It depends on what your definition of "best" is. Your best defender would be at shortstop. 

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that at the amateur level (excluding college ball), any player who has the ability to play Major League Baseball is probably the best guy on the field by a long shot under any definition.  Yes, Arenado/Chapman situations do occur, but they are extremely rare.

[cp176]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I can't find the actual statistics on bb-ref or fangraphs, so let's poll the board:

For anyone who has ever played or watched Little League... what percentage of the best players would you say played shortstop -- when they weren't pitching or catching?

1. 75%

2. 85%

3. 95%

4. kajillion

Slightly south of a kijilion but for sure most have.  

[TedYazPapiMookie]

The Little League comment lacks perspective.  Campbell played at a state championship HS in Georgia and won the SS position then competed nationally for the SS position on an elite Perfect Game team beatthing out players from around the US and many Latin American countries.  Then he played 1 year of college before he got drafted.  He's played hundreds of innings at SS and one college season at 2B.

If I was to guess, in Little League he was a SS but 

[TedYazPapiMookie]

I have no documentation at that young of an age because it is completely and utterly irrelevant!!!

[moonslav59]

Campbell is not even a good 2Bman (yet?) so why should he play SS?

He may be lucky to play CF over DH, but he's got to show he can field somewhere, well enough.

I have faith he will be a good hitter, someday, and almost certainly better than DHam will ever be, but as of now, he's not, and he's a lesser defender and baserunner.

The rest is what is utterly irrelevant.

 

[mvp 78]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Campbell is not even a good 2Bman (yet?) so why should he play SS?

He may be lucky to play CF over DH, but he's got to show he can field somewhere, well enough.

I have faith he will be a good hitter, someday, and almost certainly better than DHam will ever be, but as of now, he's not, and he's a lesser defender and baserunner.

The rest is what is utterly irrelevant.

 

Not a good 2b is understating how awful he has been at 2b so far. He would be horrific at SS. 

[Hitch]

Calling for Campbell to play SS is about a crazy a thing as I've heard in a while. 

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Calling for Campbell to play SS is about a crazy a thing as I've heard in a while. 

AND Mayer would move to 1B in order for Campbell to play SS. That was the original argument. 

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

AND Mayer would move to 1B in order for Campbell to play SS. That was the original argument. 

For a person that announced their arrival with 'I'm a superior baseball mind' some of these takes are wild. 

[moonslav59]

I sometimes think it's trolling, but I actually think he believes thiis stuff!

[jad]

I guess if anyone asked how the RS are doing, it could be answered by pointing out that avid Red Sox fans are arguing about the little league performance of a guy they just DFA'd.

[mvp 78]

Just now, jad said:

I guess if anyone asked how the RS are doing, it could be answered by pointing out that avid Red Sox fans are arguing about the little league performance of a guy they just DFA'd.

Campbell was not DFA'd. 

[illinoisredsox]

24 minutes ago, jad said:

I guess if anyone asked how the RS are doing, it could be answered by pointing out that avid Red Sox fans are arguing about the little league performance of a guy they just DFA'd.

Just one person keeps bringing his amateur career up.

We should be fair, TYPM is raising KC's high school resume (not Little League) and Georgia high school baseball is among the best in the country.  That being said, other than getting you in the door, said resume has nothing to do with what an athlete does at the professional level.

As mvp said, Campbell was sent to the minors; he's still on the 40 man roster 

[jad]

55 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Campbell was not DFA'd. 

Thank goodness!  We're saved!  All thanks to his little league stats.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, jad said:

Thank goodness!  We're saved!  All thanks to his little league stats.

You can be very harsh for a man with a cute, fluffy little dog as his avatar. 😉 

[mvp 78]

16 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

You can be very harsh for a man with a cute, fluffy little dog as his avatar. 😉 

You don't know how often that dog bites! 

[jad]

On 6/24/2025 at 12:57 PM, mvp 78 said:

You don't know how often that dog bites! 

He does!  But only if you pick him up wrong.