Red Sox 2025 Starting Rotation

[Hugh2]

3 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

You mean Hamilton, Wong and Grissom won't get it done?

Maybe in my dreams. 

[mvp 78]

[moonslav59]

On 7/21/2025 at 2:13 PM, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

You mean Hamilton, Wong and Grissom won't get it done?

LOL. Maybe we could include Winckowski, too.

[moonslav59]

I'd like to see Criswell get a shot. He was a decent starter in '24, and did well his only start, this year.

I'm not sure Fitts really deserves a start, but Harrison hasn't shown much, either.

My guess is Harrison gets the call.

[notin]

On 7/21/2025 at 6:49 AM, Hugh2 said:

BTV Accepts: Roman Anthony, Brayan Bello, Franklin Arias, and Payton Tolle for Skenes. 

BTV accepts Nayer, Rafaela and K Campbell for Skenes as well.

And if Pittsburgh would accept it, it would be worth doing.  But I stand by my opinion that any trade for Skenes has to include Anthony.  I just don’t see Pitt biting if he’s not included…

[notin]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd like to see Criswell get a shot. He was a decent starter in '24, and did well his only start, this year.

I'm not sure Fitts really deserves a start, but Harrison hasn't shown much, either.

My guess is Harrison gets the call.

Criswell is injured…

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

Criswell is injured…

The Sox medical staff must be short handed. A MASH unit should be set up right outside of Fenway.

[moonslav59]

19 minutes ago, notin said:

Criswell is injured…

That narrows the choices.

[Hitch]

7 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

As I kinda suspected. It makes sense, in a way that little makes sense in this game.

[moonslav59]

I do worry about Buehler's first inning numbers (OPSA over 1.000) and first 25 pitches (.900.) How will that translate to a pen role?

That being said, I'm hopeful he can fill a role the Sox badly need: a 2-3+ inning RP'er. We've gotten by with 3-4 and sometimes 5 RP'ers doing well enough, but deepening the pen has been a high need area. The pen is ranked very high, but Chapman and Whitlock have been so great, the numbers hide how mediocre and poor the rest of the pen has been.

Adding Matz has worked well. Let's hope adding Buehler will seal the deal.

Who the 5th starter will be matters, too. He or they will likely get 5 starts. Being +4 in the WC race means those 5 starts could make or break our chances. If we reach the playoffs, normally 3 pitchers get att but 1-3 starts, depending on how deep the team goes.

Our pen, today is:

Chapman & Whitlock

Weissert & Matz

Wilson & Bernardino

Buehler & Hicks

(Fitts is on the 26, so maybe he will be the SP5.)

Slaten may be ready, soon, so a tough choice will need to be made. The obvious two most struggling pitchers are Hicks and Wilson, but both have no options, and I'm pretty sure they want to keep Hicks in the 2026 plans. One going to the IL would bridge us to Sept roster expansion time, but I'm not sure that will happen. More likely, we will demote Fitts, then call up Harrison once a start is needed, but then who goes down, then?

We have no days off, until past Sept 1st, and I do not see pitching our starters on 3 days rest as an option. Someone has to go. (Bernardino has been too good to demote, again, IMO, but that is what will probably happen, IMO.)

[Larry Cook]

On 7/21/2025 at 6:49 AM, Hugh2 said:

BTV Accepts: Roman Anthony, Brayan Bello, Franklin Arias, and Payton Tolle for Skenes. 

Pittsburgh has 1 ace. 4 good quality starters, 1 UCL starter back in 2027 and 2 quality minor league starters. 
 

they need bats really really badly. We have bats in surplus! Abreau, Campbell, Mayer, Grissom, Casas, Garcia, and arias!!  
 

seems like a deal of some sort is possible between us and Pittsburgh!!!!  

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Larry Cook said:

Pittsburgh has 1 ace. 4 good quality starters, 1 UCL starter back in 2027 and 2 quality minor league starters. 
 

they need bats really really badly. We have bats in surplus! Abreau, Campbell, Mayer, Grissom, Casas, Garcia, and arias!!  
 

seems like a deal of some sort is possible between us and Pittsburgh!!!!  

Seems right, but probably not Skenes for another year or two.

I think Ryan is about the best we can get via winter trade. Anthony and Tolle are not going to be in any suggested offer by me, but I'll listen on others.

If I gave up Duran or Abreu plus Campbell, I think I might want somebody else added, but I might say yes. They probably want a pitcher or two.

Keller is the guy PIT would trade, due to his salary and age.

I'd be thrilled to get Ryan and Keller.

Abreu, Clarke and Sandlin for Ryan.

Campbell, Mullins  & Yoshida (+$10M, making his cost $26M/2) for Keller (owed $55M/3)

[Bellhorn04]

Campbell and Yoshida are not valuable trade assets right now IMO.  What does BTV say, I wonder.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Campbell and Yoshida are not valuable trade assets right now IMO.  What does BTV say, I wonder.

Every team in MLB would love to have KC and his contract. Nobody wants Yoshida at 30% of his contract.

One is plus value- one is negative.

BTW, BTV still has KC valued highly (40.4,) For reference, Duran is 64.4, Rafaela 42.6. Mayer 51.2, Abreu 37.4 and Arias 22.2. Both Yoshida and Story are over 30 negative.

[Larry Cook]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Every team in MLB would love to have KC and his contract. Nobody wants Yoshida at 30% of his contract.

One is plus value- one is negative.

BTW, BTV still has KC valued highly (40.4,) For reference, Duran is 64.4, Rafaela 42.6. Mayer 51.2, Abreu 37.4 and Arias 22.2. Both Yoshida and Story are over 30 negative.

I believe Campbell can hit and hit really well!!!! 
but he adds no defensive value. 
he is a great trade piece in my book 

to unload yoshida, we are going to have to eat a lot of that contract!!  Ugly eating!!!  
 

We have pieces other teams will covet!!! No doubt 

[moonslav59]

47 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I believe Campbell can hit and hit really well!!!! 
but he adds no defensive value. 
he is a great trade piece in my book 

to unload yoshida, we are going to have to eat a lot of that contract!!  Ugly eating!!!  
 

We have pieces other teams will covet!!! No doubt 

How hard can 1B be for an athletic guy?

He'd probably be okay in LF, after a few months.

I do think he still has high trade value and BTV agrees. I think we trade him and either Duran or Abreu. We might add some farm pitchers not named Tolle or Valera and get some nice returns.

[Hitch]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

How hard can 1B be for an athletic guy?

He'd probably be okay in LF, after a few months.

I do think he still has high trade value and BTV agrees. I think we trade him and either Duran or Abreu. We might add some farm pitchers not named Tolle or Valera and get some nice returns.

I'm not sure Campbell has shown he is athletic? He's been flat out awful at every defensive position he's played. 

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I'm just not that concerned about our starters.  Going into the playoffs with Crochet, Bello and Gio works for me.  The 4th starter can be figured out, perhaps it's Tolle?  

Next season is a bit up in the air but I was pretty happy with Dobbins and if not this season Tolle will be in the mx to go with the other solid starters mentioned above.  I have no trust in Houck.  He seems to have had as many bad games as good games and he is hurt a lot.  

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I'm just not that concerned about our starters.  Going into the playoffs with Crochet, Bello and Gio works for me.  The 4th starter can be figured out, perhaps it's Tolle?  

Next season is a bit up in the air but I was pretty happy with Dobbins and if not this season Tolle will be in the mx to go with the other solid starters mentioned above.  I have no trust in Houck.  He seems to have had as many bad games as good games and he is hurt a lot.  

Houck won't be able to pitch until '27. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

I'm not sure Campbell has shown he is athletic? He's been flat out awful at every defensive position he's played. 

You can be "athletic" and still be awful on defense. Duran was an example, earlier in his career.

Another thing, KC cannot be worse than Casas on D at 1B. That's impossible.

Casas can be the DH, after we trade or DFA Yoshida. (Dreaming, I know.)

[cp176]

29 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I'm just not that concerned about our starters.  Going into the playoffs with Crochet, Bello and Gio works for me.  The 4th starter can be figured out, perhaps it's Tolle?  

Next season is a bit up in the air but I was pretty happy with Dobbins and if not this season Tolle will be in the mx to go with the other solid starters mentioned above.  I have no trust in Houck.  He seems to have had as many bad games as good games and he is hurt a lot.  

I would like to think that next year the rotation starts with Crochet, Bello, and Gialito (sp) still in it.  Hopefully Dobbins and the next best available starter via trade plugged in there somewhere.  Crawford might kind of be the forgotten man here.  A good potential back of the rotation guy for sure.

[cp176]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You can be "athletic" and still be awful on defense. Duran was an example, earlier in his career.

Another thing, KC cannot be worse than Casas on D at 1B. That's impossible.

Casas can be the DH, after we trade or DFA Yoshida. (Dreaming, I know.)

I’m not much of a Casas fan I’ll admit.  I would like to see a proven veteran plugged in to that first base position.  Someone with some clout.  Might even be Lowe.  Not having KC, or Casas or Mayer (who happen to really like) in our starting lineup going forward I don’t thinks hurts us at all.  Mayer would certainly be in it if he could stay on the field something he has yet to prove that he can do.  I like guys who are available.

[Hitch]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

You can be "athletic" and still be awful on defense. Duran was an example, earlier in his career.

Another thing, KC cannot be worse than Casas on D at 1B. That's impossible.

Casas can be the DH, after we trade or DFA Yoshida. (Dreaming, I know.)

True, but Duran is clearly athletic. I don't know what what we've seen to give Campbell that moniker so far. 

I think he could definitely be worse there. It would be hard, but he's not showing much to believe in right now. 1st and LF are the only areas I can see him having any use as a fielder (thought left is something that's just popped in my head - I've no idea what his arm strength is like), but unless he hits, it's all moot anyway. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, cp176 said:

I’m not much of a Casas fan I’ll admit.  I would like to see a proven veteran plugged in to that first base position.  Someone with some clout.  Might even be Lowe.  Not having KC, or Casas or Mayer (who happen to really like) in our starting lineup going forward I don’t thinks hurts us at all.  Mayer would certainly be in it if he could stay on the field something he has yet to prove that he can do.  I like guys who are available.

I think Mayer will be a damn good player, but the injury concerns are just too high for my liking. Our need for a 2Bman, and maybe a SS, once Story leaves, as well as 3B depth are major issues on this team, so trading away a kid like Mayer is very risky, but I'd be okay with including him in a trade for someone like Ryan, Skenes but probably not a Keller type.

We have too many OF'ers, so I have to think one gets traded. We could also trade KC and/or Mayer and roll the dice with Romero and Arias as eventual depth or replacements to our infield. If we trade all three, our return should be very nice. If we add pitchers like Sandlin, Mullins, Early or Clarke, we might be able to make 2 big trades.

The next step would be to somehow get Yoshida off the 40 man, but parking him in AAA could be an option. I think we keep Casas as a DH option, because his trade value is close to nil, but his potential is an .850- 30 HR guy.

[moonslav59]

Just now, Hitch said:

True, but Duran is clearly athletic. I don't know what what we've seen to give Campbell that moniker so far. 

I think he could definitely be worse there. It would be hard, but he's not showing much to believe in right now. 1st and LF are the only areas I can see him having any use as a fielder (thought left is something that's just popped in my head - I've no idea what his arm strength is like), but unless he hits, it's all moot anyway. 

I see your point. It's mostly what I read about KC's athleticism. I do believe he cannot be worse on D than Casas, but Lowe has one arb left, so Casas may DH, anyway. KC's best slot is likely LF or DH, assuming his bat comes around.

[notin]

20 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Campbell and Yoshida are not valuable trade assets right now IMO.  What does BTV say, I wonder.

BTV still values Campbell. with a surplus value of &35mill.  Not so much on Yoshida and his -$31mill surplus value…

[notin]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

You can be "athletic" and still be awful on defense. Duran was an example, earlier in his career.

Another thing, KC cannot be worse than Casas on D at 1B. That's impossible.

Casas can be the DH, after we trade or DFA Yoshida. (Dreaming, I know.)

Is Yoshida a more likely DFA than Casas?

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, notin said:

BTV still values Campbell. with a surplus value of &35mill.  Not so much on Yoshida and his -$31mill surplus value…

I saw he was just over 40 a while ago, so his value has not dropped as much as some seem to be implying. Of course GMs think differently than BTV. Soe may value him way more or less than others.

Would you trade Yoshida ($36M/2) & Campbell ($60M/8) for Keller ($55M/3) & Reynolds ($75M/5?) Lux tax $29M/yr to BOS vs $26M to PIT.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Is Yoshida a more likely DFA than Casas?

I'd say yes. The money is big, but Casas has high upside at a low cost. While he takes up a slot of the 40, when hurt, we do need 1B depth, despite him being like Yoshida- essentially a DH only player.

[notin]

4 hours ago, cp176 said:

I would like to think that next year the rotation starts with Crochet, Bello, and Gialito (sp) still in it.  Hopefully Dobbins and the next best available starter via trade plugged in there somewhere.  Crawford might kind of be the forgotten man here.  A good potential back of the rotation guy for sure.

If Giolito returns, starting pitching does not look like any sort of priority for this team.  Between him, Crochet, Bello, Dobbins, Crawford, Harrison, Tolle and possible Fitts, they seem to have depth.  Certainly injuries and trades can alter this…