A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part II

[Bellhorn04]

On 3/29/2025 at 2:23 AM, moonslav59 said:

The ALE is the only division with no losing record team.

And just like that, 40% of the division is playing .333 ball! 

[notin]

21 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm just afraid that whatever the issue is with his shoulders, it's debilitating in a career-threatening way.   

Can Devers get at least 15 plate appearances before we declare his career over?  Or even diagnose him with shoulder problems?

If he is having shoulder issues from last year, wouldn’t Cora - someone who not only watches every game but can also talk to Devers - have more of a clue about it than any of us?  
 

While it’s possible Devers is having physical issues, it’s also possible he’s just not adjusting as well to being a full time DH.  Or it could be any other number of reasons.  But since it’s not even diagnosed as a shoulder issue, calling it a “career-threatening shoulder issue” right now is a whole new level of premature…

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

Can Devers get at least 15 plate appearances before we declare his career over?  Or even diagnose him with shoulder problems?

If he is having shoulder issues from last year, wouldn’t Cora - someone who not only watches every game but can also talk to Devers - have more of a clue about it than any of us?  
 

While it’s possible Devers is having physical issues, it’s also possible he’s just not adjusting as well to being a full time DH.  Or it could be any other number of reasons.  But since it’s not even diagnosed as a shoulder issue, calling it a “career-threatening shoulder issue” right now is a whole new level of premature…

Yeah, I know, it is premature.  But this stuff does happen.  And finishing one season with 9 Ks in 3 games and starting the next with 10 Ks in 3 games is big-time unusual.  Not even pitchers struck out at this kind of rate.

 

 

[notin]

13 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, I know, it is premature.  But this stuff does happen.  And finishing one season with 9 Ks in 3 games and starting the next with 10 Ks in 3 games is big-time unusual.  Not even pitchers struck out at this kind of rate.

 

 

But we don’t even know if he is having shoulder issues this year, let alone career-threatening ones.  This is what happens when you try to medically diagnose a player from his baseball stats.

Yes his K’s are concerning and high for even players who make contact about as often as NASA, but it’s also 3 days for a guy adjusting to a new role.  Some players don’t like DHing because, as Jim Rice (I think) once said “it’s like pinch hitting 4 times in a game.” 
 

If Devers’ shoulders are still sore, Cora shouldn’t play him and maybe he needs IL time.  And the irony there is if Devers does hit the shelf, all the people screaming to unload Yoshida at any cost might finally stop their chanting and realize why not doing so was a good thing.

But if Devers can’t get into pinch hitting 4 times in a game, maybe it just takes him a bit to adjust…

[Nick]

The sooner we get Mayer and Anthony on board the better I feel. They are the core group, not Devers, Story, Bregman,etc.

[Bellhorn04]

37 minutes ago, notin said:

But we don’t even know if he is having shoulder issues this year, let alone career-threatening ones.  This is what happens when you try to medically diagnose a player from his baseball stats.

Yes his K’s are concerning and high for even players who make contact about as often as NASA, but it’s also 3 days for a guy adjusting to a new role.  Some players don’t like DHing because, as Jim Rice (I think) once said “it’s like pinch hitting 4 times in a game.” 
 

If Devers’ shoulders are still sore, Cora shouldn’t play him and maybe he needs IL time.  And the irony there is if Devers does hit the shelf, all the people screaming to unload Yoshida at any cost might finally stop their chanting and realize why not doing so was a good thing.

But if Devers can’t get into pinch hitting 4 times in a game, maybe it just takes him a bit to adjust…

I'm not buying the move to DH as being the problem.

Per Red Sox Stats:

Raffy’s stance was 51° open in the summer of 2023, it opened up to 68-70° by last summer, and through three games this year it’s open 77°.

Why is he opening his stance so much?  I have to think it's some sort of compensation for the shoulder issues.

I also think that if his shoulders are still seriously bothering him he might not be fessing up about it.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Raffy only had 15 PAs in spring games after reportedly not picking up a bat all offseason.  I get that this is one explanation for him looking so slow and rusty.  But what gives us any confidence that the issues that prevented him from picking up a bat aren't still there?  Did they magically disappear some time earlier this month?  

[notin]

12 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm not buying the move to DH as being the problem.

Per Red Sox Stats:

Raffy’s stance was 51° open in the summer of 2023, it opened up to 68-70° by last summer, and through three games this year it’s open 77°.

Why is he opening his stance so much?  I have to think it's some sort of compensation for the shoulder issues.

I also think that if his shoulders are still seriously bothering him he might not be fessing up about it.

 

Also possible it’s to compensate for how he’s being pitched.  That sounds like compensation for inside pitches more so than for shoulder discomfort. 

That doesn’t mean his new stance is not a possible cause of his issues.  Of course whether or not you buy the DH thing doesn’t eliminate that possibility either.

But I think getting lost here in Devers’ struggles is that Casas and Story are a combined 2 for 24 with 9 strikeouts, Wong and Rafaela are hitless so far, and only Wilyer Abreu has more than 3 hits through three games.  While Devers is the biggest concern, he’s far from alone.  And facing Jake deGrom today is possibly not a good remedy…

[notin]

27 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Raffy only had 15 PAs in spring games after reportedly not picking up a bat all offseason.  I get that this is one explanation for him looking so slow and rusty.  But what gives us any confidence that the issues that prevented him from picking up a bat aren't still there?  Did they magically disappear some time earlier this month?  

It’s one thing to worry about whether or not a player is still injured.  But you’re rapidly approaching equating the body’s internal healing process to a conspiracy theory…

[Tedballgame]

At 68 years old I didn't think I could be as good as a major league baseball player but I actually think I could do as well right now as Raffy Devers. We each would strike out each time up.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And just like that, 40% of the division is playing .333 ball! 

As expected.

[Hitch]

2 hours ago, Nick said:

The sooner we get Mayer and Anthony on board the better I feel. They are the core group, not Devers, Story, Bregman,etc.

Devers is core group. Come on now, let's not get crazy.

[dgalehouse]

Baseball fans ( Sox fans certainly included) are a very fickle and often unsavory bunch. They will turn on players at the first sign of trouble. Even players with many great accomplishments in their careers. But let the player get a big hit or pitch a good game and " all is forgiven ".  Until next time. Don't let us down again.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Raffy's last at bat was at least promising, and not just because he walked -- instead of whiffed to end the game.

With two outs In the 9th inning of Game Four, and the tying and winning runs on base, Devers' best swing of his weekend might have been the 3-2 foul to left, because for those watching carefully, his head was right down on the ball the whole swing... and not pulling off, like on just about every strikeout.

Even if sore shoulders are a factor (which I don't believe, considering he was trying to launch pitches to the Oklahoma on every swing) it can't hurt his shoulders more if he shortens up and goes oppo.

He can still do this. 

[Hitch]

14 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Raffy's last at bat was at least promising, and not just because he walked -- instead of whiffed to end the game.

With two outs In the 9th inning of Game Four, and the tying and winning runs on base, Devers' best swing of his weekend might have been the 3-2 foul to left, because for those watching carefully, his head was right down on the ball the whole swing... and not pulling off, like on just about every strikeout.

Even if sore shoulders are a factor (which I don't believe, considering he was trying to launch pitches to the Oklahoma on every swing) it can't hurt his shoulders more if he shortens up and goes oppo.

He can still do this. 

Absolutely. People are acting like he's finished. 

His stance is crazy wide open, however. The widest I've seen it.

Couple of tweaks and he'll be fine I'm sure.

[moonslav59]

Like Devers and every other good player has never had a bad 3 games in a row, before.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Like Devers and every other good player has never had a bad 3 games in a row, before.

He's actually had more like 25 horrible games in a row counting the end of last year.  And the reason that last year's games are also relevant is that we don't really know if the problems that existed then still exist or not.         

 

 

[Old Red]

39 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

He's actually had more like 25 horrible games in a row counting the end of last year.  And the reason that last year's games are also relevant is that we don't really know if the problems that existed then still exist or not.         

 

 

Striking out 10 times in the first 3 games of the season is not only news worthy, but it set a Major League record. This was more than 3 bad games.

[vjcsmoke]

We're in last place after losing back to back close 1 run games to the Rangers.

Devers has been atrocious with a .552 OPS to start the season.

To give you an idea how bad that is, the awful, stinky, atrocious return of JBJ to the Red Sox saw him bat .578 OPS before we got rid of him.

Now this has only been ONE 4 game series. So it's a super small sample size. But clearly something is wrong with Devers and he might be cold for a minute before he figures it out and gets out of his slump. But our whole middle of the order could be doing better. Casas and Devers have been ice cold.

I think perhaps Cora should consider tweaking the batting order to account for this? We can't have Devers and Casas stranding people. Why not put the hot hitters in impact positions till Devers and Casas figure it out.

 

 

[Hitch]

Is it my imagination or did Devers play DH quite a bit towards the end of last year, too?

Matt Kemp recently tweeted - "I don't think people really understand how hard it is to not play the field. It's like you're playing but you aren't. Playing the field keeps you engaged."

This is where my general thinking is (along with worries about how wide open his stance has become). Playing DH was sprung on Devers. He wants to be on the field. I'd be devastated if I couldn't play the field.  

Let's hope he adapts quickly if it is the case.

 

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

 "Playing the field keeps you engaged."

Unless your fiancee finds out.

[Bellhorn04]

5 hours ago, vjcsmoke said:

We're in last place after losing back to back close 1 run games to the Rangers.

Devers has been atrocious with a .552 OPS to start the season.

To give you an idea how bad that is, the awful, stinky, atrocious return of JBJ to the Red Sox saw him bat .578 OPS before we got rid of him.

Devers's OPS in the 4 games is .111.

[mvp 78]

21 hours ago, notin said:

Can Devers get at least 15 plate appearances before we declare his career over?  Or even diagnose him with shoulder problems?

If he is having shoulder issues from last year, wouldn’t Cora - someone who not only watches every game but can also talk to Devers - have more of a clue about it than any of us?  
 

While it’s possible Devers is having physical issues, it’s also possible he’s just not adjusting as well to being a full time DH.  Or it could be any other number of reasons.  But since it’s not even diagnosed as a shoulder issue, calling it a “career-threatening shoulder issue” right now is a whole new level of premature…

Kutter Crawford pitched all season long with a knee problem. They opted for no surgery. That same knee now has him on the IL.

Raffy has a bum shoulder last season. They opted for no surgery. He didn't pick up a bat all last season to rest. He looks as bad at the plate as he did last year with the bad shoulder. 

[mvp 78]

56 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Devers's OPS in the 4 games is .111.

I think he was referencing Devers' ST OPS of 553 in 5 games. 

[Old Red]

59 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Devers's OPS in the 4 games is .111.

We’re really talking about OPS here? 0-16 is plain, and simple. 0-16. 12 K’s. He’s only hit the ball 4 times.

[mvp 78]

Raffy cares. He's not pouting. He's frustrated that he's struggling. To me, it's his shoulder. When you have a 300M investment in a guy like Raffy, you shouldn't be putting him in this position. 

[mvp 78]

Anyway, nobody look at NIck Pivetta's line from yesterday. 

[Bellhorn04]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Raffy cares. He's not pouting. He's frustrated that he's struggling. To me, it's his shoulder. When you have a 300M investment in a guy like Raffy, you shouldn't be putting him in this position. 

But what should they be doing with him, if he swears he's 100% physically?  

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Raffy cares. He's not pouting. He's frustrated that he's struggling. To me, it's his shoulder. When you have a 300M investment in a guy like Raffy, you shouldn't be putting him in this position. 

I think he’s just all out of whack from picking up bad habits when his shoulders were bothering him last year. All reports have said he has had no problems whatsoever with either shoulder since he has shown up at ST, and that’s what I’m going with until I hear different.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

But what should they be doing with him, if he swears he's 100% physically?  

1. Fix his batting stance so it's not so wide open. It's more extreme than it has ever been. At least get it back to '23 levels.

2. Give him a day off. 

3. Second opinion the shoulder injury. Lots of players push themselves through injury. Mayer did it in '23 and it wrecked his numbers.

4. Have a talk with Cora. Remember, Cora is a guy who has said "this player should be back, he's healthy, it's just a pain tolerance thing" or whatever. He did this last year with Casas. Maybe Cora needs to reevaluate this position. Maybe he's leaning on Devers too much?