Craig Breslow: CBO of the Red Sox

[Duran Is The Man]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think Henry is a hands-on owner.

he is the Jerry Jones of MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

8 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

The Sox without Devers hurts, I agree, but that's primarily because Bregman went on the IL 24 May and won't return until after the ASG. Casas is also on the IL and Duran is struggling.  Oh, and the Sox have started four rookies this season.  Narvaez has  been terrific, but Campbell is back in Worcester and Mayer and Anthony are still adjusting to MLB.  

All that said, the bigger problem is pitching--and that's irrefutable.  Devers doesn't pitch.  

Devers was on his way out the day Bregman was announced as the Sox third baseman.  Credit Cora for getting Raffy to embrace DH, which worked great.  But if you're Breslow you can't afford to pay Raffy $30M and Yoshida another $18.6M when all he can do is DH.  

 

 

Max, I think you make too much out of trying to 'isolate' the problem.  Our offense has lost us plenty of games.  We've lost 6 in a row, 2 of them were by scores of 3-2.  It's very easy for a team to be bad in multiple areas.     

[Maxbialystock]

40 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

But how can anyone -- inquiring fans, media, the industry -- overlook a front office that self-congratulates itself with so much braintrust it has gray matter leaking out of its windows?

No one -- not one guy with advanced analytic degrees -- saw the plan to sign Bregman as something that would probably alienate a sensitive manchild like Raffy?

It's hard to believe Boston's front office doesn't consider all possible outcomes before pulling the trigger on certain franchise-altering deals. 

Or maybe they did... and maybe the entire Bregman signing was geared to both shore up the D and ultimately replace their biggest albatross contract as a result.

Good stuff.   I think almost every MLB front office is smart. 

The Sox overlooked--or ignored--Devers sensitivity because they were focused on getting what turned out to be a franchise-altering player.  For the Sox he's been terrific at bat, on defense, and in the locker room.  Devers is good at bat, period, which means he is overpaid.  For that matter, right now so is Bregman with his bad quad(s). 

I think another part of the Sox considerations had to be that Campbell, Mayer, and Anthony were all likely to make it to Boston this season.  Plus they assumed Casas would have another good season at bat.  

Raffy doesn't pitch, and the Sox biggest problem right now is pitching.  

 

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Revealing details of Rafael Devers trade indicate Red Sox were being snakes all along

Not a single shred of evidence to make any specific point about being "snakes." (Not that there weren't snakes, but at least give us some meat on those bones the title promised.)

What are the "details?"

[notin]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Not a single shred of evidence to make any specific point about being "snakes." (Not that there weren't snakes, but at least give us some meat on those bones the title promised.)

What are the "details?"

That some guy can use Twitter/X?

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Good stuff.   I think almost every MLB front office is smart. 

The Sox overlooked--or ignored--Devers sensitivity because they were focused on getting what turned out to be a franchise-altering player.  For the Sox he's been terrific at bat, on defense, and in the locker room.  Devers is good at bat, period, which means he is overpaid.  For that matter, right now so is Bregman with his bad quad(s). 

I think another part of the Sox considerations had to be that Campbell, Mayer, and Anthony were all likely to make it to Boston this season.  Plus they assumed Casas would have another good season at bat.  

Raffy doesn't pitch, and the Sox biggest problem right now is pitching.  

 

We are losing because of all areas not doing well, Max.

The rotation. The pen, The offense. The defense. The baserunning.

I'm not sure, if it matters that pitching is a couple percentage points higher than batting + defense + Baserunning, assuming it is. We suck in every category.

The Astros have been missing 5 of their best 8 SP'er all or nearly all season long and they traded away Tucker, last winter. Yordan Alvarez is batting .646. Is this any worse than us trading Devers and seeing Bregman on the IL, along with Houck and Crawford?

This is a team effort losing streak, including Cora and Brez, the coaches and maybe even that batboys.

[notin]

59 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

The Sox without Devers hurts, I agree, but that's primarily because Bregman went on the IL 24 May and won't return until after the ASG. Casas is also on the IL and Duran is struggling.  Oh, and the Sox have started four rookies this season.  Narvaez has  been terrific, but Campbell is back in Worcester and Mayer and Anthony are still adjusting to MLB.  

All that said, the bigger problem is pitching--and that's irrefutable.  Devers doesn't pitch.  

Devers was on his way out the day Bregman was announced as the Sox third baseman.  Credit Cora for getting Raffy to embrace DH, which worked great.  But if you're Breslow you can't afford to pay Raffy $30M and Yoshida another $18.6M when all he can do is DH.  

 

 

Even if their biggest problem is pitching, that’s not a reason to not fix lesser (yet still significant) problems earlier if the opportunity arises…

[moonslav59]

Getting Bregman was perhaps the best thing this organization has done, other than maybe Crochet, since the Nate trade in 2018.

He fell in their lap, at the last minute. Okay, maybe they mishandled how they approached Devers and dealt with how he perceived the "broken promises" from the departed GM.

While I think plenty of blame can be directed at Brez, Cora & Co for this whole fiasco, the fact is, Devers needed to do the right thing, and he didn't or wouldn't. The vast difference in his statements in BOS vs those made in SF are very telling, to me.

Nobody is blameless in this whole long-lasting event.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Even if their biggest problem is pitching, that’s not a reason to fix lesser (yet still significant) problems earlier if the opportunity arises…

100%

We could easily be winning more games with a better O, better D and better baserunning.

[Maxbialystock]

On 10/26/2024 at 12:08 PM, moonslav59 said:

Much has been made of the horrific Sale for Grissom trade, and looks nearly impossible for Grissom to be able to even come close to balancing the 2024 value Sale brought to the Braves, but Brez did make some other moves, too:

1 year of Dugo for Fitts, Weissert and Judice.

Robertson & Santos for our 2024 HR leader, Tyler O'Neill.

I Cambell for Urias (I still think this pitcher will shine for us, someday.)

Schreiber for Sandlin (a top 12 prospect)

His in season trades for Paxton, Garcia and Sims all back-fired, but the Yorke for Priester deal could pay off. (I'm not sure any of the prospects we gave up in those other trades would have made our 40 man roster or contributed to the Sox in any meaningful way, but we shall see how they do, in coming years.)

If you put all Brez's trades together, the overall balance may not look great, but I see 5 trades that look good and 4 that don't, and 3 of those 4 may end up as giving up nothing for nothing.

I would add three more factors in defense of Breslow.   The first is that right now the Sox active payroll is $105M because the rest of their $192M payroll (12th in MLB) is on the IL or simply no longer playing (Pedroia, et al).  Bregman and a bunch of pitchers are on the IL.

The second is that firing DD and hiring Chaim Bloom were the direct result of JH's revised and somewhat negative attitude toward the Sox payroll--and that still impinges on this team.  DD had the largest payroll in MLB to work with.  Breslow's is 12th largest.  

The third is that this team is infested with rookies.  All 4 of them have been or are regulars.  One is an excellent catcher.  One is back in Worcester.  And the other two are regulars who are still adjusting to MLB pitching. 

[vegasbob]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

We are losing because of all areas not doing well, Max.

The rotation. The pen, The offense. The defense. The baserunning.

I'm not sure, if it matters that pitching is a couple percentage points higher than batting + defense + Baserunning, assuming it is. We suck in every category.

The Astros have been missing 5 of their best 8 SP'er all or nearly all season long and they traded away Tucker, last winter. Yordan Alvarez is batting .646. Is this any worse than us trading Devers and seeing Bregman on the IL, along with Houck and Crawford?

This is a team effort losing streak, including Cora and Brez, the coaches and maybe even that batboys.

Having batboy'ed for the indomitable Houston Colt .45's under the inspired leadership of Harry Craft, I take umbrage at any batboy being the cause of the Sox multiple ineptitudes in 2025.

Those Colt .45's were an interesting bunch, among others, Pete Runnels, Jerry Grote, Rusty Staub, Walter Bond, Walt Williams, Nellie Fox, Hal Brown, Eddie Kasko, Jimmy Winn , John Bateman, Ken Aspromonte , etc.   In fact, that team in their primes could sweep this version of the Red Sox in a 3 game series.

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I would add three more factors in defense of Breslow.   The first is that right now the Sox active payroll is $105M because the rest of their $192M payroll (12th in MLB) is on the IL or simply no longer playing (Pedroia, et al).  Bregman and a bunch of pitchers are on the IL.

The second is that firing DD and hiring Chaim Bloom were the direct result of JH's revised and somewhat negative attitude toward the Sox payroll--and that still impinges on this team.  DD had the largest payroll in MLB to work with.  Breslow's is 12th largest.  

The third is that this team is infested with rookies.  All 4 of them have been or are regulars.  One is an excellent catcher.  One is back in Worcester.  And the other two are regulars who are still adjusting to MLB pitching. 

Max, I too hate blaming the GM for injuries, but he did sign a guy he knew was out until August (Sandoval) instead of signing a guy known for being healthy- like Gio- LOL!

He signed Buehler, fully knowing his injury history rivaled that of Sale. If only he bounced back like Sale did- LOL!

He signed an 80 year old closer (Chapman) and 75 year old set up man (Wilson,) and lo-and-behold, they are the ones staying healthy and doing well- LOL!

He knew Casas was a china doll and then traded away Meidroth as a throw in on a trade, but hey, he got lucky with Toro-Romy,  when he couldn't get his manager to get Devers to even try 1B. (Not funny, so no LOL.)

Other teams have major injuries and players doing way worse than expected: Yankees with Cole and D Williams and the Astros with 5 SP'ers and J Alvarez.

We suck at pitching, hitting, defense and baserunning. Even the guys that are supposed to be good at those things have not been as expected. Maybe that is not Brez's fault, but the fact is, we'd suck, even if Bregman, Hendriks, Gio and Houck were healthy all year long.

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, vegasbob said:

Having batboy'ed for the indomitable Houston Colt .45's under the inspired leadership of Harry Craft, I take umbrage at any batboy being the cause of the Sox multiple ineptitudes in 2025.

I did say "maybe."

[notin]

1 hour ago, Duran Is The Man said:

he is the Jerry Jones of MLB.

Most definitely not.  I bet the only thing both have in common are 1) being incredibly wealthy and 2) you don’t like either one.

Jones approved a $60mill AAV for Dak Prescott, a middling QB.  Henry (or his team) trades people away for making half of that.

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Most definitely not.  I bet the only thing both have in common are 1) being incredibly wealthy and 2) you don’t like either one.

Jones approved a $60mill AAV for Dak Prescott, a middling QB.  Henry (or his team) trades people away for making half of that.

you're partly right, i don't like Henry. not even a little. i'm a Pats fan and really don't like or dislike Jerry. 

and yes, Jerry makes some really, really stupid decisions. just like JH.

 

[notin]

2 hours ago, vegasbob said:

Having batboy'ed for the indomitable Houston Colt .45's under the inspired leadership of Harry Craft, I take umbrage at any batboy being the cause of the Sox multiple ineptitudes in 2025.

Those Colt .45's were an interesting bunch, among others, Pete Runnels, Jerry Grote, Rusty Staub, Walter Bond, Walt Williams, Nellie Fox, Hal Brown, Eddie Kasko, Jimmy Winn , John Bateman, Ken Aspromonte , etc.   In fact, that team in their primes could sweep this version of the Red Sox in a 3 game series.

1.  I think the Sox bat boys are actual bats.

2.  Actually outside of Toy Cannon Winn, that roster might be its contemporary equal to this Sox roster.  Rusty Staub carved out a great career as a PH/DH, but who are his current day equivalents?  And while Nellie Fox was a 6-8 bWAR MVP in his prime, he was not on his prime while he was in Houston…

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

6 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah at the end of the day it's another debacle for a team that has been brutally mismanaged since 2019.

What I'm really noticing lately is a lot of hate toward Breslow.  He may not be long for this job.

Other than getting paid. I'm not sure why he would want to stick around.

He can't spend too much money, he has a manager that he didn't pick who lets the players dictate what they will and will not do, a roster full of unproven rookies and replacement level players. Outside of crochet and narvy, not a lot of bright spots.

[moonslav59]

Could the bad rap we gave Brez on the Gio signing have been unfair?

Let's hope the Buehler signing takes a turn for the good, real soon.

[Jasonbay44]

10 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

you're partly right, i don't like Henry. not even a little. i'm a Pats fan and really don't like or dislike Jerry. 

and yes, Jerry makes some really, really stupid decisions. just like JH.

 

I think part of it is due to Jerry Jones age. He’s 82 so I don’t think he’s all there mentally 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

5 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Could the bad rap we gave Brez on the Gio signing have been unfair?

Not unless you think Giolito is worth $38.5 million for half a season of inconsistent starts.

The Red Sox have been paying him that for a year and a half, and he's finally healthy enough to put together some quality starts. The latter is what was expected, but even if he's more consistent through the second half of '25, was it worth paying him more than Crochet this year?

No one can fault a guy for getting injured, but imagine if Gio was instead good the first year and then opted out: would the Sox be on the hook for another $50-75 million dollar extension? Or would he be a Dodger by now, leaving Boston searching for yet another member of their fluctuating starting rotation?

[Bellhorn04]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Could the bad rap we gave Brez on the Gio signing have been unfair?

Quite possible.  I think most of us view Brez's moves through the filter of total results, which are still under .500 in his tenure.  If Giolito helps lead us to a playoff spot this year much will be forgiven.

Might be stupid but that's kind of how it goes when you're the CBO of the Sox.

[Duran Is The Man]

10 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Could the bad rap we gave Brez on the Gio signing have been unfair?

Let's hope the Buehler signing takes a turn for the good, real soon.

no, not at all. GIo stunk the last half of '23. so bad that one had to know he was either awful or injured. yet he still give him a contract that is tilted 100% in his favor. this was the day that inexperience met incompetence.

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Not unless you think Giolito is worth $38.5 million for half a season of inconsistent starts.

The Red Sox have been paying him that for a year and a half, and he's finally healthy enough to put together some quality starts. The latter is what was expected, but even if he's more consistent through the second half of '25, was it worth paying him more than Crochet this year?

No one can fault a guy for getting injured, but imagine if Gio was instead good the first year and then opted out: would the Sox be on the hook for another $50-75 million dollar extension? Or would he be a Dodger by now, leaving Boston searching for yet another member of their fluctuating starting rotation?

Well, when you say "no fault he got injured," then why still lay full blame on Brez?

I'm not saying the signing worked out well, but our main beef was that not only did he sign a guy who got hurt, despite being one of the more healthier pitchers up to that point, but that he sucked and has sucked right before we signed him for that half season.

That part may have changed. The part where the GM knows what pitchers are good or not.

Richards was not good. Kluber was not good. They both stayed relatively healthy for their one year deals. 

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Quite possible.  I think most of us view Brez's moves through the filter of total results, which are still under .500 in his tenure.  If Giolito helps lead us to a playoff spot this year much will be forgiven.

Might be stupid but that's kind of how it goes when you're the CBO of the Sox.

Of course the lost season count on the final evaluation on what we got for $39M/2. I'm not discounting that. Of course, all GM see their moves viewed in hindsight. It's the nature of of their job.

My point is this: I felt he signed a probable bad pitcher (in foresight) who ended up getting hurt (hindsight.) Now, I'm not so sure I and others were right on the foresight part.

[moonslav59]

56 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

no, not at all. GIo stunk the last half of '23. so bad that one had to know he was either awful or injured. yet he still give him a contract that is tilted 100% in his favor. this was the day that inexperience met incompetence.

I think most of us thought he was just plain awful, and then got injured (or was to start with, too.)

[Bellhorn04]

19 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Of course the lost season count on the final evaluation on what we got for $39M/2. I'm not discounting that. Of course, all GM see their moves viewed in hindsight. It's the nature of of their job.

My point is this: I felt he signed a probable bad pitcher (in foresight) who ended up getting hurt (hindsight.) Now, I'm not so sure I and others were right on the foresight part.

Signing Giolito, trading Sale and doing nothing else was a very questionable course of action on the 2024 rotation. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

19 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Well, when you say "no fault he got injured," then why still lay full blame on Brez?

It was a preemptive line because no matter how much we all agree that all pitchers are now just ILs waiting to happen, some poster would inevitably defend Brez for signing Giolito.

The guy led the league in home runs allowed and was coming off a brutal second half in '23 with a Houckian 2-10 record off a 7.13 ERA. And Breslow not only signed Gio, he gave him the most ridiculous contract with an opt out after Year 1 or a guaranteed Year 2 salary -- which we immediately knew meant that Lucas would leave if he had a good year and stay if he sucked.

That was not the way to add any sustained quality to a rotation on a club starved for starting pitchers. 

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

It was a preemptive line because no matter how much we all agree that all pitchers are now just ILs waiting to happen, some poster would inevitably defend Brez for signing Giolito.

The guy led the league in home runs allowed and was coming off a brutal second half in '23 with a Houckian 2-10 record off a 7.13 ERA. And Breslow not only signed Gio, he gave him the most ridiculous contract with an opt out after Year 1 or a guaranteed Year 2 salary -- which we immediately knew meant that Lucas would leave if he had a good year and stay if he sucked.

That was not the way to add any sustained quality to a rotation on a club starved for starting pitchers. 

It's not so much the signing as that it was the only signing.  

[notin]

22 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

It was a preemptive line because no matter how much we all agree that all pitchers are now just ILs waiting to happen, some poster would inevitably defend Brez for signing Giolito.

The guy led the league in home runs allowed and was coming off a brutal second half in '23 with a Houckian 2-10 record off a 7.13 ERA. And Breslow not only signed Gio, he gave him the most ridiculous contract with an opt out after Year 1 or a guaranteed Year 2 salary -- which we immediately knew meant that Lucas would leave if he had a good year and stay if he sucked.

That was not the way to add any sustained quality to a rotation on a club starved for starting pitchers. 

Do you prefer 7 year David Price contracts? Those tend to be much, much more detrimental when a player gets hurt or sucks…

[notin]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's not so much the signing as that it was the only signing.  

How many pitchers do you have to sign to replace a guy who had thrown 150 IP total in the previous 4 years?