A Realistic View at 2024: Part III

[jgar658]

A question for the forum regarding the awful loss to Texas last night:

 

Jansen pitched in August 12, 13 and hence was not available last night when the Sox gave the game away.

Why was Jensen used the day before to preserve a 9 to 5 victory?

We needed Jansen last night.

[Bellhorn04]

A question for the forum regarding the awful loss to Texas last night:

 

Jansen pitched in August 12, 13 and hence was not available last night when the Sox gave the game away.

Why was Jensen used the day before to preserve a 9 to 5 victory?

We needed Jansen last night.

 

The crucial point is that in the 9-4 game, Jansen was brought in in the 8th, when the score was 6-4.

 

I expect Cora's thinking was that since he wouldn't be using Jansen the next game he might as well let him finish off the game in the 9th.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We've been advocating free agency and trades for half a decade now through the Bloom/Breslow Era to improve the big league pitching staff. Posters have listed plenty of examples of each to show additions to the roster -- but very few have contributed to make the Red Sox a winning team that truly has a chance at a World Series.

 

Some have been bargains, others total wastes of money, but compared to other clubs that are going for it, there's a stark contrast in picking up an arm or two to get through the summer in Boston, or always pushing to stockpile for October -- like in Philadelphia or even San Diego.

 

The Padres' entire rotation -- Cease, King, Wauldron, Darvish, Musgrove -- was acquired through trades, some that were blockbusters. They never stop trying to upgrade the bullpen, either, like dealing for Tanner Scott at the deadline. They already have Robert Suarez and Yuki Matsui, both inked from Japan (Matsui, an underrated signing last winter, leads the pen in games and IP). This is also the org that traded four guys for Josh Hader a few years ago, and let him walk after last season.

 

Yes, SD has blown a ton of money on star power, but the Pads are now posed to go deep into October because of their pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

We've been advocating free agency and trades for half a decade now through the Bloom/Breslow Era to improve the big league pitching staff. Posters have listed plenty of examples of each to show additions to the roster -- but very few have contributed to make the Red Sox a winning team that truly has a chance at a World Series.

 

Some have been bargains, others total wastes of money, but compared to other clubs that are going for it, there's a stark contrast in picking up an arm or two to get through the summer in Boston, or always pushing to stockpile for October -- like in Philadelphia or even San Diego.

 

The Padres' entire rotation -- Cease, King, Wauldron, Darvish, Musgrove -- was acquired through trades, some that were blockbusters. They never stop trying to upgrade the bullpen, either, like dealing for Tanner Scott at the deadline. They already have Robert Suarez and Yuki Matsui, both inked from Japan (Matsui, an underrated signing last winter, leads the pen in games and IP). This is also the org that traded four guys for Josh Hader a few years ago, and let him walk after last season.

 

Yes, SD has blown a ton of money on star power, but the Pads are now posed to go deep into October because of their pitching.

 

And tonight we'll be facing Eflin, who the O's picked up at the deadline and who is 3-0 with a 2.33 ERA for them.

[Hugh2]

We've been advocating free agency and trades for half a decade now through the Bloom/Breslow Era to improve the big league pitching staff. Posters have listed plenty of examples of each to show additions to the roster -- but very few have contributed to make the Red Sox a winning team that truly has a chance at a World Series.

 

Some have been bargains, others total wastes of money, but compared to other clubs that are going for it, there's a stark contrast in picking up an arm or two to get through the summer in Boston, or always pushing to stockpile for October -- like in Philadelphia or even San Diego.

 

The Padres' entire rotation -- Cease, King, Wauldron, Darvish, Musgrove -- was acquired through trades, some that were blockbusters. They never stop trying to upgrade the bullpen, either, like dealing for Tanner Scott at the deadline. They already have Robert Suarez and Yuki Matsui, both inked from Japan (Matsui, an underrated signing last winter, leads the pen in games and IP). This is also the org that traded four guys for Josh Hader a few years ago, and let him walk after last season.

 

Yes, SD has blown a ton of money on star power, but the Pads are now posed to go deep into October because of their pitching.

 

SD doesn't have anything to show for it, Yes they're good, but in their division it will be hard to not be a wild card team and their window might be closing in a few years as well. Farm system is going downward and they literally had to take out a loan to make payroll last year. That isn't sustainable.

 

I'm not trying to kick them, they're obviously a good team, but unlike Houston they have nothing to show for it it.

 

If teams want to advocate spending and sustainable success, the Los Angeles Dodgers are a better model.

[Bellhorn04]

SD doesn't have anything to show for it, Yes they're good, but in their division it will be hard to not be a wild card team and their window might be closing in a few years as well. Farm system is going downward and they literally had to take out a loan to make payroll last year. That isn't sustainable.

 

I'm not trying to kick them, they're obviously a good team, but unlike Houston they have nothing to show for it it.

 

If teams want to advocate spending and sustainable success, the Los Angeles Dodgers are a better model.

 

Dodgers and MFY's.

[Hugh2]

Dodgers and MFY's.

 

Good add, although I'm happy the Sox have owned them in the playoffs recently. Still, they're an example of sustained success.

 

Sox are well on their way their, but teams like NY and LAD don't reset, sell everyone off and make themselves suck for 1/2 a decade to get good again.

 

That's not "sustainable" success.

[mvp 78]

A question for the forum regarding the awful loss to Texas last night:

 

Jansen pitched in August 12, 13 and hence was not available last night when the Sox gave the game away.

Why was Jensen used the day before to preserve a 9 to 5 victory?

We needed Jansen last night.

 

They had no idea they'd need Jansen last night. You take the wins when you can get them. Clearly, this pen could give away a 9-5 game too.

[Duran Is The Man]

And tonight we'll be facing Eflin, who the O's picked up at the deadline and who is 3-0 with a 2.33 ERA for them.

 

it all goes back to a highly incompetent or unmotivated front office.

[mvp 78]

Yes, SD has blown a ton of money on star power, but the Pads are now posed to go deep into October because of their pitching.

 

They've struggled a whole hell of a lot. Preller has made a ton of s***** deals and FA signings. Until they actually do something, it's hard to call them a success.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

SD doesn't have anything to show for it, Yes they're good, but in their division it will be hard to not be a wild card team and their window might be closing in a few years as well. Farm system is going downward and they literally had to take out a loan to make payroll last year. That isn't sustainable.

 

I'm not trying to kick them, they're obviously a good team, but unlike Houston they have nothing to show for it it.

 

If teams want to advocate spending and sustainable success, the Los Angeles Dodgers are a better model.

 

I'm not saying the Padres aren't desperate or looking at a window, but any team living a couple hours from LA probably should be.

 

At least fans in places like SD and Philly have reasons to be excited the past few years, because they're clubs are always going for it.

(if you've been a baseball fan long enough, you know no success is actually sustainable for very long...)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Dodgers and MFY's.

 

Every year: Spend/Invest/Trade/UPGRADE and never cross a freaking bridge, whether it's rickety boards or steel and cement.

 

Anything less is unacceptable to their fanbase.

[moonslav59]

Every year: Spend/Invest/Trade/UPGRADE and never cross a freaking bridge, whether it's rickety boards or steel and cement.

 

Anything less is unacceptable to their fanbase.

 

The MFY fanbase has not been happy for a long time. They do not think their owner is doing enough with the budget to get them over the hump.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The MFY fanbase has not been happy for a long time. They do not think their owner is doing enough with the budget to get them over the hump.

 

They acquired the best hitter on the trade market since Mookie Betts, and the guy has been arguably a better fit in New York than Marcus in LA.

 

The only downer for Yankee fans is that Juan Soto, like his teammate Aaron Judge, is having an MVP year -- which means if KC makes the playoffs, no one deserves the Most Valuable Player award in the league more than Bobby Witt, who's doing it all by himself.

[mvp 78]

They acquired the best hitter on the trade market since Mookie Betts, and the guy has been arguably a better fit in New York than Marcus in LA.

 

The only downer for Yankee fans is that Juan Soto, like his teammate Aaron Judge, is having an MVP year -- which means if KC makes the playoffs, no one deserves the Most Valuable Player award in the league more than Bobby Witt, who's doing it all by himself.

 

The downer will be what happens if Soto signs elsewhere?

[moonslav59]

They acquired the best hitter on the trade market since Mookie Betts, and the guy has been arguably a better fit in New York than Marcus in LA.

 

The only downer for Yankee fans is that Juan Soto, like his teammate Aaron Judge, is having an MVP year -- which means if KC makes the playoffs, no one deserves the Most Valuable Player award in the league more than Bobby Witt, who's doing it all by himself.

 

Fans are still pissed they have done too little for over a decade, now.

 

Yes, Soto was a hug get, as was Cole a few years back.

 

They used to add 2-4 big names, some years.

[Bellhorn04]

The downer will be what happens if Soto signs elsewhere?

 

Yes. But Hal has been known to fork over for the elite talent-Cole and Judge.

[jgar658]

The crucial point is that in the 9-4 game, Jansen was brought in in the 8th, when the score was 6-4.

 

I expect Cora's thinking was that since he wouldn't be using Jansen the next game he might as well let him finish off the game in the 9th.

 

Once the score was 9 to 5 I would not have used Jansen. But, that is me watching the game on TV.

[Bellhorn04]

Once the score was 9 to 5 I would not have used Jansen. But, that is me watching the game on TV.

 

I get what you're saying. I was a little surprised too. But I think Cora figured that because he was already "burning" Jansen for the next game, he might as well let him finish.

 

Plus just about any lead is blow-able with our pen lately.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I get what you're saying. I was a little surprised too. But I think Cora figured that because he was already "burning" Jansen for the next game, he might as well let him finish.

 

Plus just about any lead is blow-able with our pen lately.

 

Boston is 10-14 since the All-Star Break.

 

Six of those losses came in the opponents' last at bats.

 

And in what may be a record in a single month: the Red Sox lost three games when they were: One. Out. Away. From. Victory.

[notin]

They had no idea they'd need Jansen last night. You take the wins when you can get them. Clearly, this pen could give away a 9-5 game too.

 

But why was Martin pulled? Not that’s he’s the Second Coming…

[Old Red]

But why was Martin pulled? Not that’s he’s the Second Coming…

 

That’s the question I asked last night on if Martin could only throw 4 pitches?

[dgalehouse]

The blown saves are the worst kind of losses. But the Sox aren't alone. Many bullpens are hurting. Hope to see Hendriks back soon. That would be a big help.

[Bellhorn04]

But why was Martin pulled? Not that’s he’s the Second Coming…

 

Cora basically said he didn't want to use him for 4 outs so soon after coming off the IL with the elbow issue.

[Old Red]

Cora basically said he didn't want to use him for 4 outs so soon after coming off the IL with the elbow issue.

 

It doesn’t matter how many outs as much as how many pitches are thrown.

[mvp 78]

Cora basically said he didn't want to use him for 4 outs so soon after coming off the IL with the elbow issue.

 

I would assume that pitching in the game, sitting on the bench, then warming up and throwing again is hard than we make it out to be. It's probably not the same as getting 3 outs in clean situation. I'm sure Cora knows how awful his relievers have been and isn't trying to put them in bad situations. He's just stuck with the guys he has.

 

Bailey Horn?

Cam Booser?

Chase Shugart?

 

These aren't guys you can count on. Kelly, Winckowski and Garcia are a different issue.

[Bellhorn04]

It doesn’t matter how many outs as much as how many pitches are thrown.

 

As mvp just said, there's also the warming up thing.

 

When was the last time Martin pitched more than an inning? And in this case he's fresh off the IL with an elbow issue.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But why was Martin pulled? Not that’s he’s the Second Coming…

 

He's been too serious ever since pitching through three levels in the minors for Boston in 2011. That was also the last year in the majors for former All-Star outfielder Aaron Rowand, so the two probably never met.

 

If Rowand and Martin ever did face each other, it might not have been slapstick. But you can bet your bippy it'd be very interesting...

[Bellhorn04]

They gave Winckowski the ball with a 3 run lead. The defense f***ed up and then he f***ed up. There was also an injury to Sogard that impacted it. It was ugly, but it wasn't because of bad managerial moves.

[Old Red]

I would assume that pitching in the game, sitting on the bench, then warming up and throwing again is hard than we make it out to be. It's probably not the same as getting 3 outs in clean situation. I'm sure Cora knows how awful his relievers have been and isn't trying to put them in bad situations. He's just stuck with the guys he has.

 

Bailey Horn?

Cam Booser?

Chase Shugart?

 

These aren't guys you can count on. Kelly, Winckowski and Garcia are a different issue.

I wasn’t questioning Cora, but only asking on why he only threw 4 pitches, and didn’t come back out. I know every pitch thrown either in the BP,, or warming up between innings all add up, but Martin was the best option for the 9th.