2024 Red Sox Defense

[gojohn99]

Who ?

 

Reign O'Er Me.

[illinoisredsox]

Who ?

 

Correct

[moonslav59]

Correct

 

The OOooo.

[Maxbialystock]

And all in jest.

 

We have a lot of jesters here, myself included.

 

Most of us, including me, like to make jokes. Mine usually bomb. splendidsplinter's usually work.

 

But in my judgment this particular jest was in fact dehumanizing.

[moonslav59]

The Sox defense is dehumanizing.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Those that watched the end of last night's game saw a sign that just might be the turning point on the defense.

 

SHORTSTOP Ceddanne Rafaela fielded a ground ball on the run and deftly -- and athletically -- whipped a strike across his body to nail the runner at first base.

 

It was the kind of play fans are accustomed seeing from big league shortstops... even once in Boston, from Story to Nomar.

 

If little Rafy stays at short, and O'Neill rebounds from his concussion (where expediency is never guaranteed) -- and the likes of Abreu, Duran and now Refsnyder continue to contribute in the OF, the D should be vastly improved.

[Randy Red Sox]

Those that watched the end of last night's game saw a sign that just might be the turning point on the defense.

 

SHORTSTOP Ceddanne Rafaela fielded a ground ball on the run and deftly -- and athletically -- whipped a strike across his body to nail the runner at first base.

 

It was the kind of play fans are accustomed seeing from big league shortstops... even once in Boston, from Story to Nomar.

 

If little Rafy stays at short, and O'Neill rebounds from his concussion (where expediency is never guaranteed) -- and the likes of Abreu, Duran and now Refsnyder continue to contribute in the OF, the D should be vastly improved.

 

And maybe big Raffy could show little Rafy what a bat is for.

[Maxbialystock]

The Sox defense is dehumanizing.

 

Actually, it's all too human.

 

To err is human, to forgive divine.

[Maxbialystock]

Those that watched the end of last night's game saw a sign that just might be the turning point on the defense.

 

SHORTSTOP Ceddanne Rafaela fielded a ground ball on the run and deftly -- and athletically -- whipped a strike across his body to nail the runner at first base.

 

It was the kind of play fans are accustomed seeing from big league shortstops... even once in Boston, from Story to Nomar.

 

If little Rafy stays at short, and O'Neill rebounds from his concussion (where expediency is never guaranteed) -- and the likes of Abreu, Duran and now Refsnyder continue to contribute in the OF, the D should be vastly improved.

 

Weird. That's one of the few plays I did see, and I had the same feeling. He looked natural, at ease, doing what he was born to do. Let's not forget that, as much range as he has in CF, he already has 3 errors there.

[moonslav59]

Actually, it's all too human.

 

To err is human, to forgive divine.

 

Blunders due to lack of focus are unforgivable in MLB.

[moonslav59]

Weird. That's one of the few plays I did see, and I had the same feeling. He looked natural, at ease, doing what he was born to do. Let's not forget that, as much range as he has in CF, he already has 3 errors there.

 

Those errors are certainly concerning, but he's made way more than 3 plays on balls hardly any of CF'ers even come close to making.

[Maxbialystock]

Blunders due to lack of focus are unforgivable in MLB.

 

Lack of focus is endemic to MLB if only because the games last forever. That's getting better with the new rules, but lack of focus is still a problem.

 

That said, it's clear a whole bunch of players are able to maintain focus.

[moonslav59]

Lack of focus is endemic to MLB if only because the games last forever. That's getting better with the new rules, but lack of focus is still a problem.

 

That said, it's clear a whole bunch of players are able to maintain focus.

 

It seems to be way more prevalent with the Sox.

 

Does this fact jolt the bejesus out of you?

 

Red Sox:

57 Earned Runs Allowed

25 Unearned Runs Allowed

 

Royals

56 Earned Runs Allowed

0 Unearned Runs Allowed

 

Also, CLE 62 and 5, SEA 74 & 3, NYY 62 & 11 and MIL 65 & 9.

 

Just having average focus might have us at 14-8, right now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It seems to be way more prevalent with the Sox.

 

Does this fact jolt the bejesus out of you?

 

Red Sox:

57 Earned Runs Allowed

25 Unearned Runs Allowed

 

Royals

56 Earned Runs Allowed

0 Unearned Runs Allowed

 

Also, CLE 62 and 5, SEA 74 & 3, NYY 62 & 11 and MIL 65 & 9.

 

Just having average focus might have us at 14-8, right now.

 

Tom Werner, you told us your own front office said the Red Sox would have 10 more wins with just a "normal" defense...

 

So, fans want to know why didn't you go full throttle on spending to acquire some normal MLB defenders?

 

Theo Epstein -- your new partner -- is famous for GMing a legendary team of hitters and pitchers. But he's also the curse-breaking architect responsible for what are still the most underrated moves of his career: adding the best available gloves in baseball in '04 at shortstop, first base and utility infield in Orlando Cabrera, Doug Mientkiewicz and Pokey Reese.

 

Why not advise the CBO to consult the master?

[Bellhorn04]

It seems to be way more prevalent with the Sox.

 

Does this fact jolt the bejesus out of you?

 

Red Sox:

57 Earned Runs Allowed

25 Unearned Runs Allowed

 

Royals

56 Earned Runs Allowed

0 Unearned Runs Allowed

 

Also, CLE 62 and 5, SEA 74 & 3, NYY 62 & 11 and MIL 65 & 9.

 

Just having average focus might have us at 14-8, right now.

 

You seem to be equating bad focus with bad defense.

 

I think we have some guys who are just bad defenders no matter how focused they are.

[mvp 78]

Tom Werner, you told us your own front office said the Red Sox would have 10 more wins with just a "normal" defense...

 

So, fans want to know why didn't you go full throttle on spending to acquire some normal MLB defenders?

 

Theo Epstein -- your new partner -- is famous for GMing a legendary team of hitters and pitchers. But he's also the curse-breaking architect responsible for what are still the most underrated moves of his career: adding the best available gloves in baseball in '04 at shortstop, first base and utility infield in Orlando Cabrera, Doug Mientkiewicz and Pokey Reese.

 

Why not advise the CBO to consult the master?

 

Werner is the minority partner. Nobody really listens to him. He’s trotted out at press conferences because Henry hates them.

[moonslav59]

Tom Werner, you told us your own front office said the Red Sox would have 10 more wins with just a "normal" defense...

 

So, fans want to know why didn't you go full throttle on spending to acquire some normal MLB defenders?

 

Theo Epstein -- your new partner -- is famous for GMing a legendary team of hitters and pitchers. But he's also the curse-breaking architect responsible for what are still the most underrated moves of his career: adding the best available gloves in baseball in '04 at shortstop, first base and utility infield in Orlando Cabrera, Doug Mientkiewicz and Pokey Reese.

 

Why not advise the CBO to consult the master?

 

Singing to the choir!

[moonslav59]

You seem to be equating bad focus with bad defense.

 

I think we have some guys who are just bad defenders no matter how focused they are.

 

I agree, many of our errors are caused by just plain bad defenders, but many are also caused by mental blunders and a seemingly lack of focus and concentration. I'm not just talking about plays that are called errors, either.

 

I know it can't be proven, what is going on in a player's mind before a ball is hit or thrown to him, so it's all speculation, on my part, but these guys seem to have their heads up their asses. Even some of our "good defensive players" have blundered plays. For example, Rafaela has 3 OF errors.

 

We throw to the wrong base. We double hitch, before throwing. We fail to get our body and feet in the right position to make a play, and much more along these lines. Yes, bad defenders don't do these things well, but these mistakes seem more mental than physical, because we do see them do the plays right, sometimes, so they do know how to do it correctly. They just don't, too often, and I chalk much of it- not all or maybe not even half- to a lack of concentration and preparedness.

[notin]

Tom Werner, you told us your own front office said the Red Sox would have 10 more wins with just a "normal" defense...

 

So, fans want to know why didn't you go full throttle on spending to acquire some normal MLB defenders?

 

Theo Epstein -- your new partner -- is famous for GMing a legendary team of hitters and pitchers. But he's also the curse-breaking architect responsible for what are still the most underrated moves of his career: adding the best available gloves in baseball in '04 at shortstop, first base and utility infield in Orlando Cabrera, Doug Mientkiewicz and Pokey Reese.

 

Why not advise the CBO to consult the master?

 

 

Gloves cost money…

[Hugh2]

Is it just me, or does Reese McGuire look MUCH better behind the plate this year?

 

His defensive metrics were average to better heading into last season and he did not have a very good 2023 at all.

[moonslav59]

Is it just me, or does Reese McGuire look MUCH better behind the plate this year?

 

His defensive metrics were average to better heading into last season and he did not have a very good 2023 at all.

 

I think he was battling an injury, last season. When we got him, he was known as a pretty good defensive catcher. It took a while for the staff to adjust to him, but now they seem totally at ease with him and Wong. Wong still has to do a better job blocking bad pitches, but he seems better, too, this year.

 

I've always given some credit to catchers for how the pitching staff does- perhaps more than most do, but our staff is doing very well, despite no Gio, Pivetta and Whitlock and guys like jansen & martin struggling out of the gate.

 

I don't like comparing staff CERA between two catchers, because each catcher often catches different pitchers for vastly different sample sizes, but here is a look of some small sample sizes. This year, there is more balance than last year.

 

Overall:

1.74 w McGuire

3.35 w Wong

 

OPS Against by Pitcher (note sample size differences) Pitchers listed in order of most IP in 2024

 

Crawford

.382 w Wong 44

.491 w McGuire 66 PAs

 

Houck

.437 w McGuire 45

.606 2 Wong 60

 

Bello

.547 w McGuire 23 a bit unbalnced

.672 w Wong 67

 

Whitlock

.590 w McGuire 39

.643 w Wong 36

 

Wink

.732 w McGuire 47 Big swing, here

.916 w Wong 27

 

Slaten

.203 w McGuire 25 Big swing, but still good numbers w Wong.

.523 w Wong 24

 

Anderson

.200 w Wong 20 Big swing, but small samples

.739 w McGuire 30

 

Pivetta

.520 w McGuire 41

N/A w Wong 0

 

Weissert

.556 w Wong 21

.778 w McGuire 18

 

Martin

.671 w Wong 21

.787 w McGuire 17

 

Joely

.713 w McGuire 23

1.203 w Wong 14

 

Jansen

.267 w McGuire 15

.762 w Wong 21

 

Bernardino

.311 w McGuire 10

.402 w Wong 16

 

Campbell

.000 w McGuire 3

1.148 w Wong 30

 

Criswell

.762 w McGuire 30

NA w Wong 0

[mvp 78]

Is it just me, or does Reese McGuire look MUCH better behind the plate this year?

 

His defensive metrics were average to better heading into last season and he did not have a very good 2023 at all.

 

He had some injury issues last year. I've been wondering how much that played into it. We saw how good he could be in '22.

[Randy Red Sox]

Werner is the minority partner. Nobody really listens to him. He’s trotted out at press conferences because Henry hates them.

 

yeah because he has to face the music. better to let others take the blame

[mvp 78]

yeah because he has to face the music. better to let others take the blame

 

I agree. He's a sniveling little s*** with a lot of money.

[Maxbialystock]

Singing to the choir!

 

Wrong. It's blather. No way, no how should the 2004 Sox with all that talent be compared to the 2024 Sox. 2004 led MLB in runs scored and OPS (.832). And the pitching staff had Schilling, Pedro, Wake, Lowe, Arroyo, and closer Foulke.

 

And let's not forget that in LF the Sox played Manny with his DWAR of -1.8 and in CF Damon with his DWAR of -0.6. Mueller at 3b DWAR was -0.4. In 2004 Boston was ranked 25th in errors committed with 118.

 

Oh, and in 2005 Renteria was the Sox SS for 153 games and with a DWAR of -0.5.

 

In 2006 the Sox had two good SS's in Alex Gonzalez and Alex Cora--and finished 86-76. So much for good defense.

[moonslav59]

Wrong. It's blather. No way, no how should the 2004 Sox with all that talent be compared to the 2024 Sox. 2004 led MLB in runs scored and OPS (.832). And the pitching staff had Schilling, Pedro, Wake, Lowe, Arroyo, and closer Foulke.

 

And let's not forget that in LF the Sox played Manny with his DWAR of -1.8 and in CF Damon with his DWAR of -0.6. Mueller at 3b DWAR was -0.4. In 2004 Boston was ranked 25th in errors committed with 118.

 

Oh, and in 2005 Renteria was the Sox SS for 153 games and with a DWAR of -0.5.

 

In 2006 the Sox had two good SS's in Alex Gonzalez and Alex Cora--and finished 86-76. So much for good defense.

 

We are talking about getting good glove subs over questionable good bat subs.

 

We are not saying the 2024 team should be compared to 2004's team.

 

The 2004 team made a huge midseason trade to improve SS and 1B defense. It worked.

 

I don't think we win with Nomar at SS.

[mvp 78]

Wrong. It's blather. No way, no how should the 2004 Sox with all that talent be compared to the 2024 Sox. 2004 led MLB in runs scored and OPS (.832). And the pitching staff had Schilling, Pedro, Wake, Lowe, Arroyo, and closer Foulke.

 

And let's not forget that in LF the Sox played Manny with his DWAR of -1.8 and in CF Damon with his DWAR of -0.6. Mueller at 3b DWAR was -0.4. In 2004 Boston was ranked 25th in errors committed with 118.

 

Oh, and in 2005 Renteria was the Sox SS for 153 games and with a DWAR of -0.5.

 

In 2006 the Sox had two good SS's in Alex Gonzalez and Alex Cora--and finished 86-76. So much for good defense.

 

The reason they sucked in 2006 was pitching and defense.

 

Pitchers with an ERA under 4.30 and over 20 innings:

Schilling 3.97/204

Paplebon 0.92/68

Gabbard 3.51/25

 

19th in fWAR, 25th in ERA (4.83), 14th in xFIP (4.50), 28th in BABIP

 

30th in DRS, fewest errors committed

Manny -13 DRS

Wily Mo - 8 DRS

Loretta - 7 DRS

Coco Crap - 6 DRS

Youk LF - 5 DRS

Kapler - 4 DRS

[notin]

The reason they sucked in 2006 was pitching and defense.

 

Pitchers with an ERA under 4.30 and over 20 innings:

Schilling 3.97/204

Paplebon 0.92/68

Gabbard 3.51/25

 

19th in fWAR, 25th in ERA (4.83), 14th in xFIP (4.50), 28th in BABIP

 

30th in DRS, fewest errors committed

Manny -13 DRS

Wily Mo - 8 DRS

Loretta - 7 DRS

Coco Crap - 6 DRS

Youk LF - 5 DRS

Kapler - 4 DRS

 

Defense is more than just errors. The balls your players don't get to that others do are hits...

[mvp 78]

Defense is more than just errors. The balls your players don't get to that others do are hits...

 

No s***, huh... It's almost like I provided a list of OF statues afterwards to prove that point.

[notin]

No s***, huh... It's almost like I provided a list of OF statues afterwards to prove that point.

 

The real problem with defense is that errors really become the only part fans can evaluate while watching a game on TV. Well, that and Web Gem type plays, although they can be misleading, too. But for the rest of the plays, we only see what the camera lets us.

 

That's why I like DRS, OAA and UZR. granted, they don't always agree, but really, they don't measure the same things anyway. And for team defense, I don't like Defensive Efficiency, which can be a worthless stat since ballparks can drastically effect the numbers on balls in play hit into the outfield...