2024 Red Sox Defense

[Elktonnick]

WS wins in 2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018 say the Sox are not fundamentally flawed.

 

By the way, I love the Rays systematic approach to baseball. My guess is they are about as good as it gets in drilling on the fundamentals. But they've yet to win a WS.

 

And everyone who practices golf becomes a professional, right?

 

I agree the weight Tom should be limited, although I don’t know how much it gets used. And just because it gets used didn’t mean team don’t stress defense…

Your logical leaps continue to astound me. Golf pros practice to become better. Most amateur golfers simply do not have the patience focus or motivation to practice as much or as long as a touring pro.

[notin]

Your logical leaps continue to astound me. Golf pros practice to become better. Most amateur golfers simply do not have the patience focus or motivation to practice as much or as long as a touring pro.

 

Ok here is the point.

 

The Sox very likely do more infield practice than we realize. And while practice might help every player achieve their best, it doesn’t mean that personal best is any good. Some guys will just never be good defensive players.

 

Just like some of us could practice golf 18 hours a day for the next 5 years. If I did that I’d get substantially better. But I still most likely will still suck at golf. Just a better degree of suck.

 

Of course I also think the Sox have had more defensive success stories than many of us realize. Especially when you consider how many players get drafted at one position and then have to learn a whole new position…

[Elktonnick]

WS wins in 2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018 say the Sox are not fundamentally flawed.

 

By the way, I love the Rays systematic approach to baseball. My guess is they are about as good as it gets in drilling on the fundamentals. But they've yet to win a WS.

 

Ok here is the point.

 

The Sox very likely do more infield practice than we realize. And while practice might help every player achieve their best, it doesn’t mean that personal best is any good. Some guys will just never be good defensive players.

 

Just like some of us could practice golf 18 hours a day for the next 5 years. If I did that I’d get substantially better. But I still most likely will still suck at golf. Just a better degree of suck.

 

Of course I also think the Sox have had more defensive success stories than many of us realize. Especially when you consider how many players get drafted at one position and then have to learn a whole new position…

It is all about what is happening in the minors. I can not believe any knowledgeable sports fan would denigrate the importance of practice. Were you ever in the Service? As my drill Sargent used to say "the more you sweat in training the less you bleed in combat.

[dgalehouse]

Everyone with a brain knows that practice is important. I swear to God, people on here will debate anything.

[Elktonnick]

WS wins in 2004, 2007, 2013, and 2018 say the Sox are not fundamentally flawed.

 

By the way, I love the Rays systematic approach to baseball. My guess is they are about as good as it gets in drilling on the fundamentals. But they've yet to win a WS.

 

And everyone who practices golf becomes a professional, right?

 

I agree the weight Tom should be limited, although I don’t know how much it gets used. And just because it gets used didn’t mean team don’t stress defense…

Your logical leaps continue to astound me. Golf pros practice to become better. Most amateur golfers simply do not have the patience focus or motivation to practice as much or as long as a touring pro.

[jad]

These guys are professional athletes, and the ceiling has to be WAY higher than it would be for us. I imagine hitters reach it. But even if defense is 'teachable' (and I think it is), there just is only so much time in the day. If I'm a .260 hitter (or so), I KNOW what will keep me in the league is getting that up to .280. That's where I'm going to put my time, not in increasing my defensive abilities. I'm guessing it might be like basketball. There are great shooters who simply refuse to play defense (James Harden) or don't bother with it. If you're a good shooter and a mediocre defender, which would you try to be: A good shooter and good defender? (there are 100s of those), or a GREAT shooter and a mediocre defender? I just don't think professional athletes will take the time away from their primary skills to work on minor ones. (Some will, of course; but I suspect most will not).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

These guys are professional athletes, and the ceiling has to be WAY higher than it would be for us. I imagine hitters reach it. But even if defense is 'teachable' (and I think it is), there just is only so much time in the day. If I'm a .260 hitter (or so), I KNOW what will keep me in the league is getting that up to .280. That's where I'm going to put my time, not in increasing my defensive abilities.

 

Good point. If your hand-eye coordination is good enough to get your bat into the bigs, then you can use it to take daily reps at fielding grounders or fly balls to stick at D.

 

Rice wasn't a good outfielder when he made the majors -- nothing like Lynn or Evans or old-man Yaz (in his mid-30s!), which is what separated them as all-around players. But he had Pesky hit him 100 fungos a day at Fenway to become proficient at playing the Monster.

 

Boggs wasn't a good third-baseman in the minors with a six-year fielding % of .932 at the hot corner, but he had coaches slap 100 grounders at him a day in the majors, where he improved to a .968 % in 18 years, and even won a couple Gold Gloves.

 

Rice and Boggs were Hall of Fame hitters, and had enough pride to hone their god-given skills to become acceptable fielders.

[Elktonnick]

Good point. If your hand-eye coordination is good enough to get your bat into the bigs, then you can use it to take daily reps at fielding grounders or fly balls to stick at D.

 

Rice wasn't a good outfielder when he made the majors -- nothing like Lynn or Evans or old-man Yaz (in his mid-30s!), which is what separated them as all-around players. But he had Pesky hit him 100 fungos a day at Fenway to become proficient at playing the Monster.

 

Boggs wasn't a good third-baseman in the minors with a six-year fielding % of .932 at the hot corner, but he had coaches slap 100 grounders at him a day in the majors, where he improved to a .968 % in 18 years, and even won a couple Gold Gloves.

 

Rice and Boggs were Hall of Fame hitters, and had enough pride to hone their god-given skills to become acceptable fielders.

 

Wade Boggs credits Johnny Pesky for his defense improving, Thats my point the Sox have no one like Johnny Pesky hitting grounders every day

[jad]

Good point. If your hand-eye coordination is good enough to get your bat into the bigs, then you can use it to take daily reps at fielding grounders or fly balls to stick at D.

 

Rice wasn't a good outfielder when he made the majors -- nothing like Lynn or Evans or old-man Yaz (in his mid-30s!), which is what separated them as all-around players. But he had Pesky hit him 100 fungos a day at Fenway to become proficient at playing the Monster.

 

Boggs wasn't a good third-baseman in the minors with a six-year fielding % of .932 at the hot corner, but he had coaches slap 100 grounders at him a day in the majors, where he improved to a .968 % in 18 years, and even won a couple Gold Gloves.

 

Rice and Boggs were Hall of Fame hitters, and had enough pride to hone their god-given skills to become acceptable fielders.

 

Didn't know that about Rice. I'd be curious to know what comparable players do today. (Again the psychological problem: do I take even a second away from my greatest skill so that I can be merely average in another). So different from us amateurs; since 'greatness' is out of reach for me, I'm apt to work to ensure I don't have any glaring and embarrassing weaknesses.

[notin]

Didn't know that about Rice. I'd be curious to know what comparable players do today. (Again the psychological problem: do I take even a second away from my greatest skill so that I can be merely average in another). So different from us amateurs; since 'greatness' is out of reach for me, I'm apt to work to ensure I don't have any glaring and embarrassing weaknesses.

 

I can see that.

 

I mean, if I’m Juan Soto, I’m not getting paid for my glove. Serviceable in the field, elite at the plate…

[moonslav59]

We should avoid signing Soto, because we have nobody to teach him defense.

[Bellhorn04]

Everyone with a brain knows that practice is important. I swear to God, people on here will debate anything.

 

Of course it is and of course they will.

 

And no one is saying practice isn't important.

 

Practice is important.

 

All the practice in the world won't make some guys good enough at the MLB level. (Do we think Bobby Dalbec isn't working at batting practice?)

 

Two simple statements that are both true and not that hard to keep in the head at the same time.

[Old Red]

Of course it is and of course they will.

 

And no one is saying practice isn't important.

 

Practice is important.

 

All the practice in the world won't make some guys good enough at the MLB level. (Do we think Bobby Dalbec isn't working at batting practice?)

 

Two simple statements that are both true and not that hard to keep in the head at the same time.

 

Bobby D can’t hit a lick, but at least he’s making the routine plays at 3B, which I’ll take at this point.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Of course it is and of course they will.

 

And no one is saying practice isn't important.

 

Practice is important.

 

All the practice in the world won't make some guys good enough at the MLB level. (Do we think Bobby Dalbec isn't working at batting practice?)

 

Two simple statements that are both true and not that hard to keep in the head at the same time.

 

Bobby D might be the best example of why making and staying in the big leagues is so freaking difficult. Does any fan, reporter or scout think that batters who hit 30 homers with a .900 OPS in Triple A aren't ready for the majors?

 

Nice guy, funny man, great teammate, Doors walk-up song -- how can you not root for Dalbec?

[Hugh2]

Everything is a teachable skill, but teaching will only make you so much better. You can't just teach someone to have better tools. E.G. Hamilton has the worse arm strength for any short stop I've ever seen.

 

I think guys like Casas can be coached up to be a better defender at 1B but the black hole you have a SS has a blatantly obvious in house solution that the team is ignoring and it's going to start hurting them quick.

 

A lot more ball are hit to SS than to CF. The drop off from Rafaela to Duran is no where near as bad as Rafaela to Hamilton. I'm sorry, but Hamilton does not belong at SS.

[Hugh2]

You can't practice fast twitch muscle fibers, you can't practice arm length, you can't practise height.

 

This team doesn't have a practice problem, they have a roster problem.

[Bellhorn04]

I think they see Rafaela as their long term CFer, so I can understand not using him for a short term fix at the SS position and possibly messing up his development. He also has 3 errors in the OF so it's not like he's been flawless out there.

[moonslav59]

 

And no one is saying practice isn't important.

 

So much inventing of positions nobody holds and hen ranting against nonexistent points.

[moonslav59]

You can't practice fast twitch muscle fibers, you can't practice arm length, you can't practise height.

 

This team doesn't have a practice problem, they have a roster problem.

 

Yes.

 

It's hard to know what the main problem is, but I do think who we select to be in our farm and added to our MLB roster plays a large role in why we have poor defense and pitching. Minor league coaching shortfalls may also play a significant role in the reality, but it's hard to know just how much, if any.

[Hugh2]

I think they see Rafaela as their long term CFer, so I can understand not using him for a short term fix at the SS position and possibly messing up his development. He also has 3 errors in the OF so it's not like he's been flawless out there.

 

Up until now he had been playing SS, he played short stop before he played CF, and even as he came up in the minor leagues he still played SS once a week.

 

They're not messing with his development by having him play SS 3-4 times a week instead of 1-2. Which odddly enough NOW seems to a be a very effing stupid time to STOP playing Rafaela at SS.

 

They were willing to play him at 2B this year, this literally makes zero sense.

 

They can still view him as their long term CF and play him as a starting SS temporarily. It's really the only option they have.

 

Unless you want to watch David Hamilton bounce balls to 1B all year.

 

This team is built on ground ball pitching, things will be ugly if they keep that hole up the middle, I promise.

[moonslav59]

Up until now he had been playing SS, he played short stop before he played CF, and even as he came up in the minor leagues he still played SS once a week.

 

They're not messing with his development by having him play SS 3-4 times a week instead of 1-2. Which odddly enough NOW seems to a be a very effing stupid time to STOP playing Rafaela at SS.

 

They were willing to play him at 2B this year, this literally makes zero sense.

 

They can still view him as their long term CF and play him as a starting SS temporarily. It's really the only option they have.

 

Unless you want to watch David Hamilton bounce balls to 1B all year.

 

This team is built on ground ball pitching, things will be ugly if they keep that hole up the middle, I promise.

 

Very good points.

 

Wanting to "see what we have" with DHam & Romy seems absurd. They know what they are. Neither is going to light the world on fire, unless it is some sort of fluke hot streak. It's just not sustainable.

 

Maybe the idea is to ride this out, until Grissom returns, and then use Reyes at SS more often than not, but is that really a season-long, good option?

 

The other aspect is, Cora has been saying he wants to get Abreu more playing time, and Refsnyder returns from rehab, soo. Our OF is overloaded. Maybe some of those OF choices are not great, but they look better than Romy, DHam, EValdez and Reyes at middle infield FT. (first 2 positions, then 1, when Grissom returns)

[jad]

So much inventing of positions nobody holds and hen ranting against nonexistent points.

 

Pot, meet Kettle!

 

Actually, the question I was interested in is how professional athletes 'budget' practice time--on their strengths? or weaknesses? My thought: amateurs should spend practice time on weaknesses; professionals should practice strengths (that's what got them there). Just heard a piece on Manny, who practiced hitting constantly. He never seriously practiced in the field, figuring (rightly) that his basic athletic ability would suffice.

[notin]

It is all about what is happening in the minors. I can not believe any knowledgeable sports fan would denigrate the importance of practice. Were you ever in the Service? As my drill Sargent used to say "the more you sweat in training the less you bleed in combat.

 

You’re still missing the point.

 

How do you know how much they practice anything? What are you basing this complaint on?

[notin]

Up until now he had been playing SS, he played short stop before he played CF, and even as he came up in the minor leagues he still played SS once a week.

 

They're not messing with his development by having him play SS 3-4 times a week instead of 1-2. Which odddly enough NOW seems to a be a very effing stupid time to STOP playing Rafaela at SS.

 

They were willing to play him at 2B this year, this literally makes zero sense.

 

They can still view him as their long term CF and play him as a starting SS temporarily. It's really the only option they have.

 

Unless you want to watch David Hamilton bounce balls to 1B all year.

 

This team is built on ground ball pitching, things will be ugly if they keep that hole up the middle, I promise.

 

I’ll say it again - Elvis Andrus is still available. Not sure why Breslow is so hellbent on repeating the biggest mistake Bloom made last off-season…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You can't practice fast twitch muscle fibers, you can't practice arm length, you can't practise height.

 

This team doesn't have a practice problem, they have a roster problem.

 

The two things scouts measure in a potential prospect are arm strength and running speed; the two baseball tools that cannot be taught.

 

If a ballplayer has neither -- unless he hits about .800 in high school with a couple HRs per game -- he's probably not getting drafted or signed.

 

Youkilis was unique because he didn't have a cannon or wheels, but he did have an uncanny eye. In the minors, he only hit about 8 homers a year, but was a rare batter who walked more than he struck out. Now he's a brewer who also gets paid to talk Sox.

[Hugh2]

I’ll say it again - Elvis Andrus is still available. Not sure why Breslow is so hellbent on repeating the biggest mistake Bloom made last off-season…

 

I'll say it again again....again. I think it should be Rafaela, temporarily. If this team wants to compete this year then Rafaela should be your starting SS until a better option presents itself or a move can be made in the trade market that sends Rafaela back to CF.

 

The pitching actually looks good, how long can that hold with subpar play at SS? Guys getting on base and double plays not being turned will take it's toll. It also uncrowds the outfield when Ref comes back.

 

This team can't afford to have Pablo Reyes, David Hamilton, and Rafaela all in the lineup at the same time.

[Old Red]

The RAF Man is playing SS today, so we’ll see how it goes. Raffy back in the lineup too.

[Hugh2]

Finally, only took them a whole week to do the sensible thing.

[notin]

I'll say it again again....again. I think it should be Rafaela, temporarily. If this team wants to compete this year then Rafaela should be your starting SS until a better option presents itself or a move can be made in the trade market that sends Rafaela back to CF.

 

The pitching actually looks good, how long can that hold with subpar play at SS? Guys getting on base and double plays not being turned will take it's toll. It also uncrowds the outfield when Ref comes back.

 

This team can't afford to have Pablo Reyes, David Hamilton, and Rafaela all in the lineup at the same time.

 

 

I am not opposed to Rafaela at SS. The Sox have an in-house replacement in Abreu (and some re-arrangement in the OF). But until Breslow and/or Cora agree he s should play there, other options should probably be pursued. Particularly ones that can easily be undone,like starting Andrus at SS. If he flops, DFA him and cut bait and Rafaela will still be there…

[moonslav59]

Finally, only took them a whole week to do the sensible thing.

 

It might just be for one game/