A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[mvp 78]

Easier said than done, and the way Yoshida has come to life, who knows what we do.

 

Anyway, we won't improve the pitching on any trade return for Yoshida.

 

We will for Anthony or Abreu plus others.

 

Hope he mashes through October and the Sox can trade him.

[Bellhorn04]

Not sure I want to trade him any more LOL Dude is hot.

[mvp 78]

Not sure I want to trade him any more LOL Dude is hot.

 

That's when you should trade them the most.

[Bellhorn04]

That's when you should trade them the most.

 

Sell High: the mantra of every armchair wheeler dealer.

[notin]

No, the Sale trade was not prospects for pitching.

 

I know it's been a long time, since we've done it, but the last time worked (prospects for Sale.) When was the last time we traded for a TOTR pitcher, and it did not work?

 

Beckett?

Schilling?

Pedro? (granted this was pitching prospects for Pedro.)

 

Our record trading for aces or solid #2s is way better than FA signings (Price, Lackey, Clements...)

 

We may swing and miss, badly, and whoever we trade could go on to do great things. I get that, but we can't just do nothing, and waiting for JH to spend big on pitching, again, and our GM to guess correctly on who we sign seems much harder to see happening.

 

I don't like trading away prospects. I'm a huge farm lover, but it HAS TO BE DONE!

 

 

Eovaldi was the most recent “prospect for pitching” trade.

 

Pivetta was the most recent “scrap heap veterans for pitching” trade.

 

Both benefited Boston more than the other team…

[notin]

Sell High: the mantra of every armchair wheeler dealer.

 

But the sale time is over. And if Yoshida stays hot up to (and through?) the postseason, do you still sell?

[Old Red]

Not sure I want to trade him any more LOL Dude is hot.

 

Agree on GOshida, and at least we’re not hearing all this just giving him away, and eating a good chunk of his salary.

[Bellhorn04]

But the sale time is over. And if Yoshida stays hot up to (and through?) the postseason, do you still sell?

 

Personally I enjoy the fact I don't have to make those decisions.

 

If he stays this hot, maybe he can be a worthy successor to Papi and JDM at the DH spot after all.

 

I mean, he really looks good right now, especially because he's flashing some real power.

[Bellhorn04]

Eovaldi was the most recent “prospect for pitching” trade.

 

Pivetta was the most recent “scrap heap veterans for pitching” trade.

 

Both benefited Boston more than the other team…

 

Our recent "pitching for prospect" trade was not so successful, to this point...

[mvp 78]

Sell High: the mantra of every armchair wheeler dealer.

 

It's very cozy.

[mvp 78]

But the sale time is over. And if Yoshida stays hot up to (and through?) the postseason, do you still sell?

 

I'd rather have Abreu be the DH, so yes.

[mvp 78]

Agree on GOshida, and at least we’re not hearing all this just giving him away, and eating a good chunk of his salary.

 

You can't only trade away players when they are bad. That's when the org gets put in a rough financial position.

[Old Red]

You can't only trade away players when they are bad. That's when the org gets put in a rough financial position.

 

True, but no one is getting traded until the offseason now. GOshida is hot now, and fame can be fleeting, and he can turn into NOshida again, and go back to hitting ping pong balls to the IF. Like I keep saying playing time, and where tend to work themselves out on their own, and if not it’s a good problem to have.

[notin]

I'd rather have Abreu be the DH, so yes.

 

Who in RF?

 

Or are you moving Rafaela to CF? If so, who plays SS?

[moonslav59]

Eovaldi was the most recent “prospect for pitching” trade.

 

Pivetta was the most recent “scrap heap veterans for pitching” trade.

 

Both benefited Boston more than the other team…

 

I was going to mention Nate and Peavy, but neither were considered TOTR pitchers at the time of the trades.

 

We certainly do much better trading for SP'ers than signing them.

[mvp 78]

Who in RF?

 

Or are you moving Rafaela to CF? If so, who plays SS?

 

Anthony in RF.

 

Rafaela in CF.

 

Mayer at SS.

 

Story at 2B.

[notin]

Anthony in RF.

 

Rafaela in CF.

 

Mayer at SS.

 

Story at 2B.

 

Grissom?

 

Also, that’s a lot of rookies for one team, especially since Teel is likely catching.

 

Three rookies in the starting lineup is like planning to not make the postseason, or to get wiped out immediately if you do…

Edited August 7, 2024 by notin

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I was going to mention Nate and Peavy, but neither were considered TOTR pitchers at the time of the trades.

 

We certainly do much better trading for SP'ers than signing them.

 

Dennis Eckersly was a 22-year-old All-Star starting pitcher when the Sox stole him from Cleveland in 1978.

 

Various internal conflicts fueled the deal (fans found out much later why Eck and Boston veteran starter Rick Wise "had to go"), but maybe the trade doesn't happen if Boston didn't agree to include Ted Cox, a first-round prospect who batted .362 with an .893 OPS in 13 big league games the previous September, after a Triple A season of .334/.926.

 

Sox fans in the Seventies thrilled to Hall of Famers and league leaders up and down the batting order, but were almost killed by a pitching staff that always fell short. Cox was expendable...

 

A decade later, Eck transformed into the first automatic closer, but in '78 he won 20 games and had a 7.3 WAR. Wise led the majors with 19 losses.

 

Ted Cox lasted parts of five seasons and had a career BA of .245. He was out of baseball at age 26.

[mvp 78]

Grissom?

 

Also, that’s a lot of rookies for one team, especially since Teel is likely catching.

 

Three rookies in the starting lineup is like planning to not make the postseason, or to get wiped out immediately if you do…

 

Grissom isn't going to be handed the starting role. I think he's going to have to earn it, but other players will leap ahead of him. Seems like a bench bat?

 

Did the Red Sox make the playoffs in 1975?

[mvp 78]

Dennis Eckersly was a 22-year-old All-Star starting pitcher when the Sox stole him from Cleveland in 1978.

 

Various internal conflicts fueled the deal (fans found out much later why Eck and Boston veteran starter Rick Wise "had to go"), but maybe the trade doesn't happen if Boston didn't agree to include Ted Cox, a first-round prospect who batted .362 with an .893 OPS in 13 big league games the previous September, after a Triple A season of .334/.926.

 

Sox fans in the Seventies thrilled to Hall of Famers and league leaders up and down the batting order, but were almost killed by a pitching staff that always fell short. Cox was expendable...

 

A decade later, Eck transformed into the first automatic closer, but in '78 he won 20 games and had a 7.3 WAR. Wise led the majors with 19 losses.

 

Ted Cox lasted parts of five seasons and had a career BA of .245. He was out of baseball at age 26.

 

That's history, pal!

[notin]

Grissom isn't going to be handed the starting role. I think he's going to have to earn it, but other players will leap ahead of him. Seems like a bench bat?

 

Did the Red Sox make the playoffs in 1975?

 

Grissom has to earn the role but Mayer doesn’t?

 

I think next year, Mayer and Anthony start in Polar Park.

 

The Sox could start with:

 

C - Teel

1b - Casas

2b - Grissom

3b - Devers

SS - Story

LF - Duran

CF - Rafaela

RF - Abreu

DH - Yoshida

BN - Wong

BN - Refsnyder

BN - Hamilton

BN - ??? Romy? Or ?

 

 

No need to load the team with rookies and strip it of veterans so quickly.

 

Yes, the Sox made the playoffs in 1975. Have they had 3 rookie starting position players on a postseason team at any other point in the half century since then?

[mvp 78]

Grissom has to earn the role but Mayer doesn’t?

 

I think next year, Mayer and Anthony start in Polar Park.

 

The Sox could start with:

 

C - Teel

1b - Casas

2b - Grissom

3b - Devers

SS - Story

LF - Duran

CF - Rafaela

RF - Abreu

DH - Yoshida

BN - Wong

BN - Refsnyder

BN - Hamilton

BN - ??? Romy? Or ?

 

 

No need to load the team with rookies and strip it of veterans so quickly.

 

Yes, the Sox made the playoffs in 1975. Have they had 3 rookie starting position players on a postseason team at any other point in the half century since then?

 

Grissom has a 706 OPS in AAA this year. He has not been good. I wouldn't pencil him anywhere near BOS. Mayer is younger, has more power and is a much better fielder. Grissom wouldn't even be a speed bump. I wouldn't be surprised to see Grissom traded. All he has going for him right now is he's a RHB.

 

"Don't load the team up with rookies... need to make space for veterans like GRISSOM!"

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure any of the big 3 start the season on the big club, even though we have no clear back-up catcher on the current roster for 2025.

 

C: Wong + Heineman type addition

1B: Casas (Romy)

2B: Grissom-DHam (platoon?)

SS: Story, Romy

3B: Devers

LF: Duran

CF: Rafaela

RF: Abreu-Refsnyder (platoon)

DH: Yoshida

 

Maybe, somebody wins a job in ST'ing, or an injury forces a rookie onto the 26, but I doubt we plan on it.

 

ML Ready depth in AAA (AA)

C: Teel, Gasper (Hickey)

1B: Dalbec/Jordan/Gasper

2B: Sogard/Westbrook/EValdez

SS: Mayer

3B: Meidroth

LF: EValdez/Westbrook

CF: (Anthony)

RF: Anthony

DH: Valdez/Hickey/Gasper

[notin]

Grissom has a 706 OPS in AAA this year. He has not been good. I wouldn't pencil him anywhere near BOS. Mayer is younger, has more power and is a much better fielder. Grissom wouldn't even be a speed bump. I wouldn't be surprised to see Grissom traded. All he has going for him right now is he's a RHB.

 

"Don't load the team up with rookies... need to make space for veterans like GRISSOM!"

 

I’d be very surprised if Grissom didn’t get another chance. Breslow wanted him for a reason, and I doubt that reason involved giving up on him after 180 PAs.

 

If Grissom continues to flummox, Hamilton and/or Mayer probably become options.

 

And I thought you were all about trading Mayer…

[Old Red]

I’d be very surprised if Grissom didn’t get another chance. Breslow wanted him for a reason, and I doubt that reason involved giving up on him after 180 PAs.

 

If Grissom continues to flummox, Hamilton and/or Mayer probably become options.

 

And I thought you were all about trading Mayer…

 

A lot has changed since Grissom was acquired. What Breslow saw as a big need at 2B at the time just isn’t there like it was before. There has been many pass through 2B this year, and Grissom himself, which wasn’t a very good audition injuries aside, but others have now gotten chances, and have contributed. Grissom is fine right where he is in Woo. I don’t think there are now any long range plans in Boston for Grissom unless the Red Sox somehow unload Story, or he gets hurt again, or someone else gets hurt.

[notin]

A lot has changed since Grissom was acquired. What Breslow saw as a big need at 2B at the time just isn’t there like it was before. There has been many pass through 2B this year, and Grissom himself, which wasn’t a very good audition injuries aside, but others have now gotten chances, and have contributed. Grissom is fine right where he is in Woo. I don’t think there are now any long range plans in Boston for Grissom unless the Red Sox somehow unload Story, or he gets hurt again, or someone else gets hurt.

 

2b is all set? The Sox have been using Hamilton (.627 OPS since June 12), Westbrook(.584 OPS), and now Sogard (18 career PAs). There might be room for improvement…

[Old Red]

2b is all set? The Sox have been using Hamilton (.627 OPS since June 12), Westbrook(.584 OPS), and now Sogard (18 career PAs). There might be room for improvement…

 

Where did I say 2B was all set? I said the need isn’t as big now as it was when the trade for Grissom was made, and many have passed through 2B this year, and all have contributed. Is there room for improvement? Yes, but I don’t see Grissom as that answer. If he is, and comes back, and proves it great, but I’m not going to think about it either way.

[mvp 78]

I’d be very surprised if Grissom didn’t get another chance. Breslow wanted him for a reason, and I doubt that reason involved giving up on him after 180 PAs.

 

If Grissom continues to flummox, Hamilton and/or Mayer probably become options.

 

And I thought you were all about trading Mayer…

 

I'd trade Mayer, but it's likely the Sox won't. Much more likely they move Grissom.

 

They brought Grissom on because their 2B of the future (Yorke) was struggling in AA. Their SS of the future (Mayer) was coming off a season that ended in injury. The outlook in the MIF was strong overall, but murky at the highest MiLB levels. Hamilton didn't have a perceived high ceiling at the time. Valdez could only hit RHP and has no clue in the field. Pablo Reyes (eventually DFA'd) was the RH'd option. I believe Breslow preferred trading for a prospect starter, but settled for a 2b as that also needed a short term upgrade.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

No need to load the team with rookies and strip it of veterans so quickly.

 

Yes, the Sox made the playoffs in 1975. Have they had 3 rookie starting position players on a postseason team at any other point in the half century since then?

 

The '07 champs had rookies Pedroia at 2B and Lester starting (and winning) the final game of the World Series. Technically, Dice K and Okajima were also rookies that year... but that's three pitchers. It was also Youk's second full season.

 

The '88 Morgan Magic men had rookie Jody Reed at SS, with Greenwell, Burks and Benzinger in their second full years. They lost four straight in the LCS to Oakland.

 

So were the latter guys too young or just completely outclassed by the mighty A's? In '90, the battle-tested Benzinger swept Oakland out a ring with the Reds.

 

Maybe we should bring up the Big Three next year, and dust off the mantle for another facsimile trophy in '26 (but only after signing or trading for a few aces).

[mvp 78]

2b is all set? The Sox have been using Hamilton (.627 OPS since June 12), Westbrook(.584 OPS), and now Sogard (18 career PAs). There might be room for improvement…

 

Sogard is on a 202.5 hit pace over 162. The prince that was promised.