A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[notin]

Where did I say 2B was all set? I said the need isn’t as big now as it was when the trade for Grissom was made, and many have passed through 2B this year, and all have contributed. Is there room for improvement? Yes, but I don’t see Grissom as that answer. If he is, and comes back, and proves it great, but I’m not going to think about it either way.

 

You said the need at 2b “just isn’t there like it was before.” But in reality, it clearly is. They just started giving Sogard a chance as their seventh second baseman in 110 games. Grissom will likely play there again this year. He’s a big part, if not the entire reason Boston had to pay $17mill of Sale’s salary. And they very likely haven’t moved on just because he didn’t set the AL on fire in his first 87 PA at age 23…

[mvp 78]

The '07 champs had rookies Pedroia at 2B and Lester starting (and winning) the final game of the World Series. Technically, Dice K and Okajima were also rookies that year... but that's three pitchers. It was also Youk's second full season.

 

The '88 Morgan Magic men had rookie Jody Reed at SS, with Greenwell, Burks and Benzinger in their second full years. They lost four straight in the LCS to Oakland.

 

So were the latter guys too young or just completely outclassed by the mighty A's? In '90, the battle-tested Benzinger swept Oakland out a ring with the Reds.

 

Maybe we should bring up the Big Three next year, and dust off the mantle for another facsimile trophy in '26 (but only after signing or trading for a few aces).

 

07 playoffs also included rookies Matsuzaka, Ellsbury and Okajima.

[mvp 78]

You said the need at 2b “just isn’t there like it was before.” But in reality, it clearly is. They just started giving Sogard a chance as their seventh second baseman in 110 games. Grissom will likely play there again this year. He’s a big part, if not the entire reason Boston had to pay $17mill of Sale’s salary. And they very likely haven’t moved on just because he didn’t set the AL on fire in his first 87 PA at age 23…

 

He's not setting the International League on fire right now. Let him do that first!

[notin]

Sogard is on a 202.5 hit pace over 162. The prince that was promised.

 

 

So… Cooperstown?

[notin]

07 playoffs also included rookies Matsuzaka, Ellsbury and Okajima.

 

So one starting position player? And that one split time with Coco Crisp…

[Old Red]

You said the need at 2b “just isn’t there like it was before.” But in reality, it clearly is. They just started giving Sogard a chance as their seventh second baseman in 110 games. Grissom will likely play there again this year. He’s a big part, if not the entire reason Boston had to pay $17mill of Sale’s salary. And they very likely haven’t moved on just because he didn’t set the AL on fire in his first 87 PA at age 23…

 

You do the worrying over Grissom, because I really don’t care who is playing 2B on a given day for the Red Sox. Like I said earlier all have contributed at one time, or another, and at the moment the Sox are playing good ball with the So Man at 2B, and yes he’s contributing in the short stay he’s had so far.

[notin]

He's not setting the International League on fire right now. Let him do that first!

 

They might do that, but again, they paid (a chunk of?) $17mill to get him. They saw something. And it’s not like the Sox are trotting out Rogers Hornsby at the moment…

[moonslav59]

You said the need at 2b “just isn’t there like it was before.” But in reality, it clearly is. They just started giving Sogard a chance as their seventh second baseman in 110 games. Grissom will likely play there again this year. He’s a big part, if not the entire reason Boston had to pay $17mill of Sale’s salary. And they very likely haven’t moved on just because he didn’t set the AL on fire in his first 87 PA at age 23…

 

Yes, we do still "need" someone to win the 2B job and prove themselves worthy of keeping it and hopefully being a plus, but I think we may very well not go outside the organization, this winter. I think we will feel like we have enough strong enough candidates that one wins the job and does well, while having decent depth from those who lose out on the FT job. We may also see a platoon choice win the job.

 

A lot depends on Story and SS. If Mayer wins the SS job, we have out 2Bman alrady penciled in, as long as Story is healthy. If Mayer starts in AAA or never wins the SS job, he may be in the mix for the 2B job.

 

Assuming Story at SS (with Mayer, Romy and Sogard as reserves,) these are the 2B competitors:

 

Grissom

DHam

Mayer

Romy

Sogard

Meidroth

(EValdez: emergency only)

 

To me, these choices look better than the last few years:

 

Most PAs at 2B since 2019:

Arroyo 544

Story 396 (The SS)

Valdez 319 (likely a DH/LF'er only from here on out)

Chavis 254

Holt 206 (was decent)

Marco Hernandez 131

Marwin 119

Reyes 100

DHam 95

Arauz 91

Peraza 89

Nunez & Urias 88

Grissom 83

Over 22/Under 52: Iggy, Yolmer S, Westbrook, Owings, Lin, Turner & Downs

 

I'm not saying our middle IF is fixed, but I do like our choices better, now.

 

Compared to the last 5 years, a DHam-Grissom platoon would be okay.

[Old Red]

They might do that, but again, they paid (a chunk of?) $17mill to get him. They saw something. And it’s not like the Sox are trotting out Rogers Hornsby at the moment…

 

Maybe just maybe the Red Sox don’t value Grissom as highly now as when they traded for him, and who’s to say he’d be better than Sogard at the moment, or DHam either. Grissom certainly hasn’t earned any playing time yet.

[mvp 78]

So… Cooperstown?

 

He needs to keep it up through 2039 or so. Unfortunately, not getting to MLB until age 26 is going to work against him.

[mvp 78]

So one starting position player? And that one split time with Coco Crisp…

 

Teel will be splitting time with Wong so you should be ok with it I guess.

[mvp 78]

They might do that, but again, they paid (a chunk of?) $17mill to get him. They saw something. And it’s not like the Sox are trotting out Rogers Hornsby at the moment…

 

No, they should definitely put the struggling AAA guy out there in a playoff race or on Opening Day ahead of a top 20 prospect.

[notin]

Teel will be splitting time with Wong so you should be ok with it I guess.

 

I think he’s the most likely candidate for rookies in April, 2025. After that, lots of other factors matter…

[mvp 78]

I think he’s the most likely candidate for rookies in April, 2025. After that, lots of other factors matter…

 

I do too.

[notin]

No, they should definitely put the struggling AAA guy out there in a playoff race or on Opening Day ahead of a top 20 prospect.

 

They might. Grissom, like I said, apparently has something in him they really liked. And he is on the 40 man roster, with a service clock that’s already started.

 

And who knows if they’re looking at him in AAA beyond the stats. Is he hitting the ball well? Making loud outs? Is he just dribbling grounders all over the infield? Do they think his struggles are related to his injury? Or just bad luck? It’s not like AAA pitching has held him back in the past. Do they want him producing in AAA? Or just healthy?

 

I don’t think it’s time to write him off just yet…

[notin]

He needs to keep it up through 2039 or so. Unfortunately, not getting to MLB until age 26 is going to work against him.

 

Not being a future Hall of Famer will work against him as well…

[Maxbialystock]

Grissom has to earn the role but Mayer doesn’t?

 

I think next year, Mayer and Anthony start in Polar Park.

 

The Sox could start with:

 

C - Teel

1b - Casas

2b - Grissom

3b - Devers

SS - Story

LF - Duran

CF - Rafaela

RF - Abreu

DH - Yoshida

BN - Wong

BN - Refsnyder

BN - Hamilton

BN - ??? Romy? Or ?

 

 

No need to load the team with rookies and strip it of veterans so quickly.

 

Yes, the Sox made the playoffs in 1975. Have they had 3 rookie starting position players on a postseason team at any other point in the half century since then?

 

 

"No need to load the team with rookies and strip it of veterans so quickly????!!!!!"

 

Allow me to remind you that the current lineup, the one I call the no-names, is currently ranked 4th in MLB in runs scored and 1st in team OPS. And they are doing that without Teel, Story, and Casas. As for those 3, Teel has never even seen MLB pitching, Story can't stay healthy and has yet to hit the ball decently for the Sox, and Casas may or may not fully recover from an injury caused by--wait for it--swinging a bat.

 

I'm glad all 3 of those guys will be available next year because we know they have ability. But, as the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding and in my view all three still have to prove themselves.

[mvp 78]

Grissom's last 10 ab's:

 

3 k's

ground out 74.8 mph, 7'

ground out 102 mph, 44'

bb

single 85 mph, 11'

ground out 66 mph, 9'

fly out 95.8 mph, 382'

single 95.2 mph, 10'

 

If they are looking, they aren't seeing much.

[notin]

Grissom's last 10 ab's:

 

3 k's

ground out 74.8 mph, 7'

ground out 102 mph, 44'

bb

single 85 mph, 11'

ground out 66 mph, 9'

fly out 95.8 mph, 382'

single 95.2 mph, 10'

 

If they are looking, they aren't seeing much.

 

That’s more telling than a .708 OPS with an 87 PA sample size. Especially with all those launch angles under 12’. But the big question also just might be, is he healthy? Because right now 2b is being held down by Hamilton/Sogard. So not sure if the Sox want him producing or just feeling good.

 

But I still think he gets called up before Mayer. Especially if a call is made this season…

[mvp 78]

So far, Grissom has gone 1-4 with a bb today.

 

single 93 mph, 263'

groundout 85 mph, 17'

lineout 86 mph, 284'

 

Seems like not a whole lot going on still. Not watching the games so I can't say if the at bats are productive or not. Results aren't there yet though.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So one starting position player? And that one split time with Coco Crisp…

 

Good catch by MVP; I forgot Ellsbury won the starting CF job by the end of the postseason.

 

But no one should forget the Rookie of the Year at second base.

[dgalehouse]

The Sox offense is hitting on all cylinders right now. They are a threat to score in almost every inning. A real handful to every pitcher they face. Don't fret about them being too left-handed either. The game of baseball is very favorable to left hand hitters.

[moonslav59]

The Sox offense is hitting on all cylinders right now. They are a threat to score in almost every inning. A real handful to every pitcher they face. Don't fret about them being too left-handed either. The game of baseball is very favorable to left hand hitters.

 

Yes, but teams face a RH SP'er about 30% of the games, so it is still important to have batters than can hit all pitching or capable platoon players: we have both.

 

What I like most is that we have no real "black holes." Sure, we've had slumping players, like DHam is now, but most seem to bounce back just as we start to notice.

 

The team has hit .842 since May 31st. That's a 55 game sample size

 

The team has hit .862 since the start of July.

29 games and 178 runs (6.1 runs per game)

48 HRs

87 2B+3B

30 SBs

 

Since May 31 (75+ PAs):

1.042 Devers

.973 Valdez (sent to AAA)

.963 Duran

.957 O'Neill

.865 Abreu

.858 Romy

.849 Refsnyder

.835 Smith

.814 Rafaela

.789 Wong (Jansen is at 1.083 in 12 PAs)

.771 Yoshida

 

.692 DHam (Sogard is at .701 in 18 PAs)

 

11 batters over .770!

 

[Old Red]

So far, Grissom has gone 1-4 with a bb today.

 

single 93 mph, 263'

groundout 85 mph, 17'

lineout 86 mph, 284'

 

Seems like not a whole lot going on still. Not watching the games so I can't say if the at bats are productive or not. Results aren't there yet though.

Grissom was activated off the IL, today, and then optioned back to Woo. Like I said earlier he hasn’t earned any playing time with the Red Sox yet up to this point.

[notin]

Grissom was activated off the IL, today, and then optioned back to Woo. Like I said earlier he hasn’t earned any playing time with the Red Sox yet up to this point.

 

It’s a question whether or not he has to earn it. Not like we have Ryne Sandberg out there…

[Old Red]

It’s a question whether or not he has to earn it. Not like we have Ryne Sandberg out there…

 

The point being that Grissom hasn’t proven he better than what’s out there at the moment, and they’ve been playing, and contributing, and he hasn’t.

[notin]

The point being that Grissom hasn’t proven he better than what’s out there at the moment, and they’ve been playing, and contributing, and he hasn’t.

 

The Sox are dead last in fWAR from 2b. These contributions aren’t as great as you want them to be.

 

And not sure why you think you get to determine who’s earned what, but the Sox clearly don’t roll that way. The only 2b who earned anything in spring training was Sogard, and he didn’t get his chance for 3 1/2 months and behind a slew of others, including lots of AAAA talent. It’s like last year at shortstop. Kike clearly didn’t earn anything there and repeatedly showed he didn’t belong there, yet they kept trotting him out there, game after game, error after error. And they didn’t do it because he has a good postseason in 2021. Meanwhile David Hamilton was lighting up the International League, clearly earning a chance. When he finally got one, apparently in order to displace Kike, he had to set the world on fire in 40 plate appearances. And he went back down.

 

If you think it’s about “earning a position,” you have NOT been paying attention…

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox are dead last in fWAR from 2b. These contributions aren’t as great as you want them to be.

 

And not sure why you think you get to determine who’s earned what, but the Sox clearly don’t roll that way. The only 2b who earned anything in spring training was Sogard, and he didn’t get his chance for 3 1/2 months and behind a slew of others, including lots of AAAA talent. It’s like last year at shortstop. Kike clearly didn’t earn anything there and repeatedly showed he didn’t belong there, yet they kept trotting him out there, game after game, error after error. And they didn’t do it because he has a good postseason in 2021. Meanwhile David Hamilton was lighting up the International League, clearly earning a chance. When he finally got one, apparently in order to displace Kike, he had to set the world on fire in 40 plate appearances. And he went back down.

 

If you think it’s about “earning a position,” you have NOT been paying attention…

 

And Grissom's contribution to that fWAR was a -0.9.

 

And his numbers have been mediocre at best in Woo. A .333 SLG playing in a hitter's park. He's still not showing any signs of the hitter that he was projected to be.

[Old Red]

The Sox are dead last in fWAR from 2b. These contributions aren’t as great as you want them to be.

 

And not sure why you think you get to determine who’s earned what, but the Sox clearly don’t roll that way. The only 2b who earned anything in spring training was Sogard, and he didn’t get his chance for 3 1/2 months and behind a slew of others, including lots of AAAA talent. It’s like last year at shortstop. Kike clearly didn’t earn anything there and repeatedly showed he didn’t belong there, yet they kept trotting him out there, game after game, error after error. And they didn’t do it because he has a good postseason in 2021. Meanwhile David Hamilton was lighting up the International League, clearly earning a chance. When he finally got one, apparently in order to displace Kike, he had to set the world on fire in 40 plate appearances. And he went back down.

 

If you think it’s about “earning a position,” you have NOT been paying attention…

 

If the Red Sox thought Grissom was ready, and would contribute more than what they have now rotating through 2B they would have kept him in Boston when his rehab time was up, but they didn’t, and the paper work said back to Woo you go. You seem to have a Big problem with that so take it up with Cora, and Brez. As I said a few days ago I don’t care who’s playing 2B on a nightly basis as long as they are producing. An article in USA by Nightengale ask if the Red Sox have buyers remorse for not keeping Sale, and trading for Grissom. I’m thinking yes on that one.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora said something about Grissom having to work on some things with his hitting - bat path or whatever. I doubt we see much more of him in a Boston uniform this year. Try again in 2025.