Red Sox ownership

[Bellhorn04]

They've brought us 4 rings, but lately they seem to have turned into penny-pinchers who are more interested in their FSG empire and in keeping the Red Sox books balanced regardless of losing seasons. Would you like to see them sell? I'm about at the point where I wouldn't be displeased to hear some rumors about a sale. Obviously it all depends who the prospective buyers are. But it really seems like Henry and Werner don't care that much about the Sox any more.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They've brought us 4 rings, but lately they seem to have turned into penny-pinchers who are more interested in their FSG empire and in keeping the Red Sox books balanced regardless of losing seasons. Would you like to see them sell? I'm about at the point where I wouldn't be displeased to hear some rumors about a sale. Obviously it all depends who the prospective buyers are. But it really seems like Henry and Werner don't care that much about the Sox any more.

 

Yes, and I've felt that way and said so, since the Mookie trade.

 

It's still a shock that ownership decided not to pay market value to keep the Red Sox' best homegrown Hall of Famer in his prime the past 50 years in Boston.

 

It was and will always be an affront to the loyal fans of New England, a message that clearly shows owners no longer committed to fielding the best entertainment product possible.

 

Fiscal limits be damned -- fan favorites connect customers to the show, and make it more fun to follow good guys their kids can grow up rooting for. And those kids are the core of sustained interest in a sports team...

 

SELL.

[Duran Is The Man]

Yes, and I've felt that way and said so, since the Mookie trade.

 

It's still a shock that ownership decided not to pay market value to keep the Red Sox' best homegrown Hall of Famer in his prime the past 50 years in Boston.

 

It was and will always be an affront to the loyal fans of New England, a message that clearly shows owners no longer committed to fielding the best entertainment product possible.

 

Fiscal limits be damned -- fan favorites connect customers to the show, and make it more fun to follow good guys their kids can grow up rooting for. And those kids are the core of sustained interest in a sports team...

 

SELL.

 

you and Bell both nailed it. IMHO, Henry has quickly gone from the most beloved owner in RS history to one of the most hated. i honestly hope he sells the team. Moon says to be careful what you wish for but at this point, does it really matter?

[Randy Red Sox]

This thread is way overdue. Yes John Henry-PLEASE SELL ASAP

[Bellhorn04]

you and Bell both nailed it. IMHO, Henry has quickly gone from the most beloved owner in RS history to one of the most hated. i honestly hope he sells the team. Moon says to be careful what you wish for but at this point, does it really matter?

 

How much worse can it get than not paying Mookie Betts, having a revolving door of CBO's, and racking up sub-.500 seasons?

[Duran Is The Man]

How much worse can it get than not paying Mookie Betts, having a revolving door of CBO's, and racking up sub-.500 seasons?

 

Exactly. I’m thankful for the four WS championships but I think the FO has lost the passion for winning that we fans have.

[moonslav59]

I'm very hesitant to call for replacing this ownership group. I know it was mentioned that the next group would have to look fully committed, but there is no guarantee on that, or on their ability to hire the right people to make the right baseball hires.

 

Of course the unknown always seems scarier than the known, even if the known looks shaky as hell.

 

While there are several teams in MLB who really seem to know what they are doing, and have multiple young studs and some even have more waiting in the wings, I think the long slow rebuild of our entire system began a few years back. The low point came after the inexcusable Betts trade, and this ownership group never wanted the fanbase to know the rebuild was always going to be the top priority. No major long term FA signings- I guess Story comes closest. No trades of top prospects for over 6 years (Beeks in '18 and ARamirez in '21 were the highest ranked prospects traded and hardly any others in the top 10 or 15.) Of course, not going into total, tear-down rebuild mode hurt and slowed the process. Just one summer fire sale would have greatly improved our outlook, but it is what it is.

 

We've seen a half-ass approach or walking the thin line of reaching the boiling point with Sox Nation. Lame attempts at giving the perception we can or soon will be competitive again, only to b e disappointed over and over, again. Kudos to those who saw right through the sham earlier than the rest of us, but I still warn, "Be careful what you wish for."

 

This ownership group has cycled to ring seasons, IMO. They have never tried to win it all every season. Certainly they had higher floors than recently, and even had a stretch of 3 last place finishes in 4 years, once before. The runs under Theo and more briefly under DD were amazing, but surprisingly, we had 2 rings in the first 10 years (2003-2012) and 2 rings in the next 10 years (2013-2022.) Winning a rin, soon, look like a pipedream, but we do finally have a farm system that looks as promising as anything we've had since the Theo days- maybe about years ago. We did just extend Devers to the largest contract in Sox history, by over 40%, and perhaps with a gun to their heads. Since March 2022, we have not only extended Devers, but also paid one FA $140M and another over $100M to acquire. That could be viewed as a move in the right direction. The last big financial expenditure like that was the Bogey and Sale extensions right before the 2019 season, the same winter we let Kimbrell & Kelly go, without even trying to replace their value. That 3 year lull in spending, which coincided with no meaningful farm infusion and the loss of Betts and others really knocked this team back a ton.

 

We are still trying to recover, or should I say pretending to try. We have not seen anything from the Story and Yoshida signings (Yet?) That might have helped morale a bit. We have, however, seen a strikingly quick growth of a farm many felt was left totally barren by DD. While recent grads don't jump off the page like some teams seem to have, the lits is as long and meaningful as we have seen since Theo:

 

2021: Whitlock, Houck

2022: Duran, Crawford, Wink

2023: Bello, Casas, Wong and some lesser players like EValdez, Bernardino & Kelly

 

2024 and 2025 promises arrivals and or graduations by some very promising players:

Anthony

Mayer

Teel

Rafaela & Abreu (MLB experience already)

Yorke

Wikelman

Fitts, Slaten, Mata, Murphy & Walter

 

Longer shots like... (lower ceilings)

Monegro, Meidroth, Jordan & DHam

Dobbins, E R-C, Guerrero, Bastardo, Song & Hoppe

Gambrell, Troye, I Coffey, Benitez & Olivares

 

Many will fail, of course, but this is one promising area this management team has built up, despite the lack of any "wow" pitcher in the group.

 

The winter is not over. We'll have to pick off an amazing percentage of the remaining cream of the crop to keep any hopes alive. This looks so much like yet another punt, that I no longer support trading top for one key piece, unless it's for a top pitcher with 3 or more years of team control.

 

We aren't getting a new owner before the start of 2024, so I guess we can wait and see what these guys can cobble together out of the remaining rubble, but for the first time, I'm beginning to think a change is needed. I'm not fully sold on the idea, and I'm extremely leary of who the next group will be, but this really sucks.

 

[dgalehouse]

I have never really been a big fan of John Henry. To me, he just does not come off as a likable guy. He surely has to get credit for breaking the curse and the four championships. But in the random, crapshoot world of post season baseball , you have to get the big breaks at the big moment. Other owners came close to winning it all, but the big plays always seemed to go against them. There is nothing an owner can do about it at that point. He gets credit for creating a nice atmosphere outside of Fenway, but he did that with some pretty shabby treatment of vendors who worked there for years. He has every right to limit his spending on the team, but then he will raise ticket and concession prices at the same time. A very bad look for the average fan. All in all, it certainly was great to finally beat the Yankees and the National League champs and break the long curse. But I just don't much care for John Henry. It wouldn't bother me a bit if he sold.

[notin]

How much worse can it get than not paying Mookie Betts, having a revolving door of CBO's, and racking up sub-.500 seasons?

 

Do you remember Cal Pohlad?

[Bellhorn04]

Do you remember Cal Pohlad?

 

I know the name and know he was brutal.

 

I'd say the law of averages is against the next Boston owner being as bad as Pohlad, but who knows.

[jad]

Yes, and I've felt that way and said so, since the Mookie trade.

 

It's still a shock that ownership decided not to pay market value to keep the Red Sox' best homegrown Hall of Famer in his prime the past 50 years in Boston.

 

It was and will always be an affront to the loyal fans of New England, a message that clearly shows owners no longer committed to fielding the best entertainment product possible.

 

Fiscal limits be damned -- fan favorites connect customers to the show, and make it more fun to follow good guys their kids can grow up rooting for. And those kids are the core of sustained interest in a sports team...

 

SELL.

 

100% agree. If you're in a business, and you find that you don't give a cr*p about your employees, customers, or clients, then no matter how money you make, it's time to go into another line of work.

Edited December 23, 2023 by jad

[Old Red]

From Tyler Milliken: if Jordan Montgomery is out of your budget you don’t deserve to own a sports team. Especially the damm Boston Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

From Tyler Milliken: if Jordan Montgomery is out of your budget you don’t deserve to own a sports team. Especially the damm Boston Red Sox.

 

He’s out of your preferred budget, too. right?

[Bellhorn04]

I have never really been a big fan of John Henry. To me, he just does not come off as a likable guy. He surely has to get credit for breaking the curse and the four championships. But in the random, crapshoot world of post season baseball , you have to get the big breaks at the big moment. Other owners came close to winning it all, but the big plays always seemed to go against them. There is nothing an owner can do about it at that point. He gets credit for creating a nice atmosphere outside of Fenway, but he did that with some pretty shabby treatment of vendors who worked there for years. He has every right to limit his spending on the team, but then he will raise ticket and concession prices at the same time. A very bad look for the average fan. All in all, it certainly was great to finally beat the Yankees and the National League champs and break the long curse. But I just don't much care for John Henry. It wouldn't bother me a bit if he sold.

 

Yes, it seems more and more like the guys responsible for the team's success over the past two decades were:

 

Larry Lucchino

Theo Epstein

Dave Dombrowski

[moonslav59]

Yes, it seems more and more like the guys responsible for the team's success over the past two decades were:

 

Larry Lucchino

Theo Epstein

Dave Dombrowski

 

I’d say Dan Duquette had more influence than Ben & Bloom.

[Bellhorn04]

I’d say Dan Duquette had more influence than Ben & Bloom.

 

No question.

[Old Red]

He’s out of your preferred budget, too. right?

 

One estimate I saw before this FA thing all started was 5yr/$105M, and they said he would only get a 5th year, because that’s what it would take, so probably what he ends up with Yes.

[moonslav59]

One estimate I saw before this FA thing all started was 5yr/$105M, and they said he would only get a 5th year, because that’s what it would take, so probably what he ends up with Yes.

 

So we do t deserve a franchise under your budget.

[notin]

One estimate I saw before this FA thing all started was 5yr/$105M, and they said he would only get a 5th year, because that’s what it would take, so probably what he ends up with Yes.

 

That estimate is so old, it can drink legally now.

 

Montgomery might not get 7/$210mill, but his is definitely not settling for 5/$105mill. I’d put the minimum at 6/$150…

[notin]

So we do t deserve a franchise under your budget.

 

To be fair, he doesn’t own a team…

[notin]

As long as the Sox are reportedly semi-throttle, the cheaper names that might actually work out besides Giolito/Stroman/Montas

 

 

Sean Manaea

Brad Keller

Jose Urena (but only as a reliever)

Yonny Chirinos (assuming he can start)

Shintaro Fujinami (bullpen)

 

 

The only guarantee is no one will get excited…

[Bellhorn04]

As long as the Sox are reportedly semi-throttle, the cheaper names that might actually work out besides Giolito/Stroman/Montas

 

 

Sean Manaea

Brad Keller

Jose Urena (but only as a reliever)

Yonny Chirinos (assuming he can start)

Shintaro Fujinami (bullpen)

 

 

The only guarantee is no one will get excited…

 

Why Not Punt?

[moonslav59]

As long as the Sox are reportedly semi-throttle, the cheaper names that might actually work out besides Giolito/Stroman/Montas

 

 

Sean Manaea

Brad Keller

Jose Urena (but only as a reliever)

Yonny Chirinos (assuming he can start)

Shintaro Fujinami (bullpen)

 

 

The only guarantee is no one will get excited…

 

I might rather have Paxton and Merrifield on 1 year deals.

[moonslav59]

Why Not Punt?

 

We already are, aren’t we?

[notin]

Why Not Punt?

 

What exactly is the benefit? Besides saving money?

 

Greater chances in the draft lottery that might help the 2028 team?

[notin]

I might rather have Paxton and Merrifield on 1 year deals.

 

I’d definitely prefer Paxton, but you’re rounding up if you think you get him for a year…

[moonslav59]

What exactly is the benefit? Besides saving money?

 

Greater chances in the draft lottery that might help the 2028 team?

 

2028 might be the new target date for trying.

[moonslav59]

I’d definitely prefer Paxton, but you’re rounding up if you think you get him for a year…

 

Yes, I should have said year contract.

[notin]

Yes, I should have said year contract.

 

I’d amend my statement that I’d greatly prefer Manaea over the increasingly fragile Paxton. Possibly Keller, too. Assuming Bailey can harness that rather lively arm…

[notin]

Yes, I should have said year contract.

 

That wasn’t the part that was missing. (Hint: most likely what would be missing is Paxton in June, July and August.)