Bloom fired

[Bellhorn04]

It sounds like what top brass was mad about was him not trading Sale and others, and not what most fans are mad at Bloom about.

 

You can take your pick of things that the brass could have been mad about, unfortunately.

 

The brass won't ever tell us, that's for sure.

[Old Red]

This definitely seems like one of those jobs where getting more people involved will lead to quicker resolution.

 

And what better way to change than to take 3 people who were involved in the last 2 last place finishes and turn them into a committee?

 

Clearly the Sox have been trying to fill a hole; even if they fill it internally, they need one name in charge…

 

I agree with you 100% on this.

[Old Red]

I'm not grading on a curve.t

 

I'm grading Bloom on his total body of work.

 

I'd hate to be a student in your class:

1 A

3 Bs

8 Cs

18 Fs

 

 

I’ve already graded Bloom the day he was hired. INC. INCOMPETENCE.

[moonslav59]

It's really hard to say with Henry anymore. Maybe the reason we didn't spend more than $10 mill on the rotation was that Henry didn't want to spend much on it. And when he saw the results he used Bloom as the scapegoat.

 

Well, we can assume JH was okay with what we offered Nate, then pulled later.

We can assume he was okay what we offered Eflin and lost out to the Rays.

That was more than $10M/1.

Bloom dithered and dathered and wound up with the booby prize.

 

Hell, I think he was rumored to want Seth Lugo, who cost less than Kluber.

 

I think not focusing on the rotation for 2024 was on Bloom and only Bloom. Do I think JH would have allowed a mega deal on a pitcher? No, but JH did not mandate just $10M.

[notin]

1. I’m not a Cora fan, and I’m on record as saying I would have never hired him back in the first place.

 

2. I think Cora is vastly overrated, because of 2018

 

3. I think a clean sweep should be made of baseball ops, and Cora included. I was with you on Kike, and whose idea was it to put Franchy at 1B, and Arroyo in RF? Was it Cora?

 

Can you say with 100% certainty Cora wasn’t on in those decisions? I can see, for example, Cora telling Bloom he needs to get Arroyo, who most definitely was a good hitter, into the lineup more often. As for Franchy, no idea why that went down the way it did. I mean, even when it was clear Cordero couldn’t field the position, Cora kept putting him out there. Did Bloom force him to? Did he tell him to play Franchy at first and deal with it?

 

I do have my doubts there. Of course if Bloom was all about Franchy, he did seem oddly excited to acquire his replacement in Eric Hosmer? No one should ever get th hat excited about Eric Hosmer.

 

We know Cora makes weird and ultimately stupid lineup decisions (see Kike at shortstop above), so why is he completely exonerated for these two?

[Old Red]

Can you say with 100% certainty Cora wasn’t on in those decisions? I can see, for example, Cora telling Bloom he needs to get Arroyo, who most definitely was a good hitter, into the lineup more often. As for Franchy, no idea why that went down the way it did. I mean, even when it was clear Cordero couldn’t field the position, Cora kept putting him out there. Did Bloom force him to? Did he tell him to play Franchy at first and deal with it?

 

I do have my doubts there. Of course if Bloom was all about Franchy, he did seem oddly excited to acquire his replacement in Eric Hosmer? No one should ever get th hat excited about Eric Hosmer.

 

We know Cora makes weird and ultimately stupid lineup decisions (see Kike at shortstop above), so why is he completely exonerated for these two?

 

I think Cora had more to do with Franchy, Arroyo, and Kike than Bloom, and I’ve never exonerated Cora for that. I think Cora had to be told to get Kike off SS.

[moonslav59]

This definitely seems like one of those jobs where getting more people involved will lead to quicker resolution.

 

And what better way to change than to take 3 people who were involved in the last 2 last place finishes and turn them into a committee?

 

Clearly the Sox have been trying to fill a hole; even if they fill it internally, they need one name in charge…

 

If everyone was part of some sort of master plan, where the idea was to not trade any top prospects, not make any long term deals larger than $140M/6 or any deals that don't rate to still be helping us in 2024 or 2025, or whatever year they chose as the "flip the switch" year, then I'm not sure we should be worried about the same guys being in charge, or if it's 1 , 2 or 3 guys. Or, how much power of influence Cora has.

 

If the strategy does not change, nothing will likely matter. No GM will likely matter.

 

I guess it's possible, still, that we can become a team like the Rays, but it takes a lot of focused effort and the right people in the system to make it work- not just the GM. I hope we don't keep trying to be the Rays North, and start doing what we need to do to win- like getting back to being a top 5-6 spending team and being okay with trading a top prospect now and then. I'm not for emptying the farm, but a balanced approach sounds good to me.

 

[moonslav59]

I’ve already graded Bloom the day he was hired. INC. INCOMPETENCE.

 

Thanks, again, for admitting your bias.

[Old Red]

Thanks, again, for admitting your bias.

 

Bottom line I was RIGHT.

[notin]

I think Cora had more to do with Franchy, Arroyo, and Kike than Bloom, and I’ve never exonerated Cora for that. I think Cora had to be told to get Kike off SS.

 

Then why are people extolling Cora as the guy who knows what this team needs? There is an argument he never knew before…

[Bellhorn04]

I think Cora had more to do with Franchy, Arroyo, and Kike than Bloom, and I’ve never exonerated Cora for that. I think Cora had to be told to get Kike off SS.

 

I don't see where Cora was presented with a lot of good options in these cases.

 

As Max will tell you, we ended up with a better record when Kike played than without him anyway...

[Old Red]

If everyone was part of some sort of master plan, where the idea was to not trade any top prospects, not make any long term deals larger than $140M/6 or any deals that don't rate to still be helping us in 2024 or 2025, or whatever year they chose as the "flip the switch" year, then I'm not sure we should be worried about the same guys being in charge, or if it's 1 , 2 or 3 guys. Or, how much power of influence Cora has.

 

If the strategy does not change, nothing will likely matter. No GM will likely matter.

 

I guess it's possible, still, that we can become a team like the Rays, but it takes a lot of focused effort and the right people in the system to make it work- not just the GM. I hope we don't keep trying to be the Rays North, and start doing what we need to do to win- like getting back to being a top 5-6 spending team and being okay with trading a top prospect now and then. I'm not for emptying the farm, but a balanced approach sounds good to me.

 

It’s pure speculation on your part that the so called master plan by JH was to not trade any top prospects. Bloom yes, but there is NO proof it was on orders from JH.

[Bellhorn04]

Then why are people extolling Cora as the guy who knows what this team needs? There is an argument he never knew before…

 

This is getting ridiculous. You really think Cora loved Franchy and Arroyo and was the driving force behind them playing as much as they did?

[moonslav59]

Can you say with 100% certainty Cora wasn’t on in those decisions? I can see, for example, Cora telling Bloom he needs to get Arroyo, who most definitely was a good hitter, into the lineup more often. As for Franchy, no idea why that went down the way it did. I mean, even when it was clear Cordero couldn’t field the position, Cora kept putting him out there. Did Bloom force him to? Did he tell him to play Franchy at first and deal with it?

 

I do have my doubts there. Of course if Bloom was all about Franchy, he did seem oddly excited to acquire his replacement in Eric Hosmer? No one should ever get th hat excited about Eric Hosmer.

 

We know Cora makes weird and ultimately stupid lineup decisions (see Kike at shortstop above), so why is he completely exonerated for these two?

 

Maybe the Hosmer trade was more about Rosier.

 

The best example I think you have used was the continued play of Kike at SS, even after we got Reyes, and Cora said he'd no longer play Kike at SS. One could argue that the statement made by Cora, then the subsequent play of Kike at SS is proof the call was made by Bloom, but I'm not convinced. It was Cora that called Kike the best defensive 2Bman in MLB, then played him in CF in 2021.

[Old Red]

Then why are people extolling Cora as the guy who knows what this team needs? There is an argument he never knew before…

 

You have to ask the pro Cora people.

[notin]

This is getting ridiculous. You really think Cora loved Franchy and Arroyo?

 

Ok what’s your take?

 

He played them quite often despite other options being available. Did he do out by choice or was he forced to do it?

[notin]

Maybe the Hosmer trade was more about Rosier.

 

The best example I think you have used was the continued play of Kike at SS, even after we got Reyes, and Cora said he'd no longer play Kike at SS. One could argue that the statement made by Cora, then the subsequent play of Kike at SS is proof the call was made by Bloom, but I'm not convinced. It was Cora that called Kike the best defensive 2Bman in MLB, then played him in CF in 2021.

 

The CF call with a Hernandez was spot on. If that was Cora who made that call, it’sa point in his favor…

[Old Red]

This is getting ridiculous. You really think Cora loved Franchy and Arroyo and was the driving force behind them playing as much as they did?

 

Do you really think it was more Bloom telling Cora who to play, and where?

[notin]

It’s pure speculation on your part that the so called master plan by JH was to not trade any top prospects. Bloom yes, but there is NO proof it was on orders from JH.

 

Everything on this board by anyone is speculation. Even the “proof” many supply is open to interpretation

[Bellhorn04]

Ok what’s your take?

 

He played them quite often despite other options being available. Did he do out by choice or was he forced to do it?

 

I think the other options sucking too had a lot to do with it.

[Old Red]

The CF call with a Hernandez was spot on. If that was Cora who made that call, it’sa point in his favor…

 

Kike was really the last option that year to take over CF after trying others first, so it wasn’t a first thought for Cora.

[Bellhorn04]

Do you really think it was more Bloom telling Cora who to play, and where?

 

I think Bloom was the guy who filled the roster with way too many bad options.

[moonslav59]

It’s pure speculation on your part that the so called master plan by JH was to not trade any top prospects. Bloom yes, but there is NO proof it was on orders from JH.

 

I started my post with the word "if." Do you know that mean it is speculation?

 

I think it is highly likely there was a plan that involved not trading top prospects. Maybe Bloom was the leader of the plan. I doubt it. The same thing essentially happened under Ben2, then the switch was flipped with the DD hire.

 

The evidence that supports my theory, and I've never said this is a proven fact, is that the trading of top prospects actually started under DD, in his last years, so that is why I suggest it was coming from above, and not from the GM. I highly doubt DD wanted to stop trading prospects anymore than he wanted to try and trade Betts and not sign him.

 

The last top prospect traded was #6 Beeks for Nate at the 2018 deadline. One could argue, even he was not a "top prospect," so the era of no top prospects traded could b e even more than 5 years.

 

You really think a GM would chose to not try and save his job by trading prospects for immediate wins? Can you prove it was DD's and Bloom's idea to stop all big trades of prospects? It's pure speculation to think it's all on the GM. Something you seem to adhere to.

[Bellhorn04]

I started my post with the word "if." Do you know that mean it is speculation?

 

I think it is highly likely there was a plan that involved not trading top prospects. Maybe Bloom was the leader of the plan. I doubt it. The same thing essentially happened under Ben2, then the switch was flipped with the DD hire.

 

The evidence that supports my theory, and I've never said this is a proven fact, is that the trading of top prospects actually started under DD, in his last years, so that is why I suggest it was coming from above, and not from the GM. I highly doubt DD wanted to stop trading prospects anymore than he wanted to try and trade Betts and not sign him.

 

The last top prospect traded was #6 Beeks for Nate at the 2018 deadline. One could argue, even he was not a "top prospect," so the era of no top prospects traded could b e even more than 5 years.

 

You really think a GM would chose to not try and save his job by trading prospects for immediate wins? Can you prove it was DD's and Bloom's idea to stop all big trades of prospects? It's pure speculation to think it's all on the GM. Something you seem to adhere to.

 

What prospects did DD have left to trade at that point though? Pretty slim pickings I would think.

[Old Red]

I think Bloom was the guy who filled the roster with way too many bad options.

 

I agree with you there, but I think it was Cora’s decisions on who played where, and when.

[Duran Is The Man]

It's really hard to say with Henry anymore. Maybe the reason we didn't spend more than $10 mill on the rotation was that Henry didn't want to spend much on it. And when he saw the results he used Bloom as the scapegoat.

 

this is true. and for all my hatred of all things Bloom, i guess i should keep in mind that JH may have been far more responsible for his poor showing than we know.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with you there, but I think it was Cora’s decisions on who played where, and when.

 

But what are the examples of him playing X over Y when Y was clearly the guy that should have been playing?

 

The only concrete example I've seen is playing Kike over Reyes at SS.

[Old Red]

I started my post with the word "if." Do you know that mean it is speculation?

 

I think it is highly likely there was a plan that involved not trading top prospects. Maybe Bloom was the leader of the plan. I doubt it. The same thing essentially happened under Ben2, then the switch was flipped with the DD hire.

 

The evidence that supports my theory, and I've never said this is a proven fact, is that the trading of top prospects actually started under DD, in his last years, so that is why I suggest it was coming from above, and not from the GM. I highly doubt DD wanted to stop trading prospects anymore than he wanted to try and trade Betts and not sign him.

 

The last top prospect traded was #6 Beeks for Nate at the 2018 deadline. One could argue, even he was not a "top prospect," so the era of no top prospects traded could b e even more than 5 years.

 

You really think a GM would chose to not try and save his job by trading prospects for immediate wins? Can you prove it was DD's and Bloom's idea to stop all big trades of prospects? It's pure speculation to think it's all on the GM. Something you seem to adhere to.

 

I know what if, and speculation means, but it has been your take for two years now that JH didn’t want Bloom to trade any top prospects.

[Duran Is The Man]

Who is that Anybody right now?

 

World Series starts next week. Ten days later, the off-season begins. And right more Boston has no one in charge and seems to be have created a situation no one wants to work in…

 

i think any potential GM would understand Bloom being let go and not hesitate to consider the opportunity. however, i think any unwillingness to consider the job links back to DD and the fact that he was fired after 3 very successful seasons and one mediocre season. knowing THAT is the bar would make anyone shy away.

[Old Red]

But what are the examples of him playing X over Y when Y was clearly the guy that should have been playing?

 

The only concrete example I've seen is playing Kike over Reyes at SS.

 

I haven’t said anything about playing x over y, but I still think Cora made all the lineup decisions, and had to be told to get Kike off SS.