Bloom fired

[moonslav59]

We will have to see what his legacy will be with the players he drafted into the organization. Cherries best young player signed was Devers, but Ben did win a Championship.

 

Much of Ben's "legacy" was traded away, and many of them did not amount to much, but we did get a lot of return value for them.

 

(Moncada, Kopech...)

 

I don't see any Devers, yet, but Bloom has left some with pretty high potential as long as a pretty long list of decent foundational players and role players. Of note, not trading any of DD or Ben's top prospects has helped the core foundation be stronger and younger, buy yes, much is speculative:

 

Bloom's guys:

 

DD's leftovers:

ML Level:

Story, Yoshida, Martin, Jansen

Pivetta, Whitlock, Verdugo, Wong, Winckowski, Urias, Reyes, Abreu

McGuire, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Bernardino, Robertson, Joely, ZKelly, EValdez, Mills

Minors:

Teel, Anthony, Mayer, Bleis, Yorke, Cespedes, Joh Garcia, Romero, Hickey

Monegro, Anderson, Drohan, E R-C, Gambrell, Jordan, DHam and others

 

1 yr left:

Sale

2+ yrs

Devers, Bello, Casas, Houck, Duran, Crawford

Rafaela, Wikelman, Perales, Castro, Walter, Murphy, Mata

Dalbec, Bonaci, Paulino and others

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

It doesn’t say who turned those down…

 

I'd have said yes, but EC does walk like 6 per 9 IP.

[notin]

I'd have said yes, but EC does walk like 6 per 9 IP.

 

It depends. If I’m buying, I turn it down. If I’m selling, I take it.

 

The problem was, Bloom wasn’t either buying or selling. He talked about doing both. That didn’t happen either. He dealt away Kike and acquired Urias. That was the extent of his deadline. I don’t call that buying or selling. More like napping…

[Larry Cook]

Much of Ben's "legacy" was traded away, and many of them did not amount to much, but we did get a lot of return value for them.

 

(Moncada, Kopech...)

 

I don't see any Devers, yet, but Ben has left some with pretty high potential as long as a pretty long list of decent foundational players and role players. Of note, not trading any of DD or Ben's top prospects has helped the core foundation be stronger and younger, buy yes, much is speculative:

 

Bloom's guys:

 

DD's leftovers:

ML Level:

Story, Yoshida, Martin, Jansen

Pivetta, Whitlock, Verdugo, Wong, Winckowski, Urias, Reyes, Abreu

McGuire, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Bernardino, Robertson, Joely, ZKelly, EValdez, Mills

Minors:

Teel, Anthony, Mayer, Bleis, Yorke, Cespedes, Joh Garcia, Romero, Hickey

Monegro, Anderson, Drohan, E R-C, Gambrell, Jordan, DHam and others

 

1 yr left:

Sale

2+ yrs

Devers, Bello, Casas, Houck, Duran, Crawford

Rafaela, Wikelman, Perales, Castro, Walter, Murphy, Mata

Dalbec, Bonaci, Paulino and others

 

 

Hang’em Chaim is gone, but his prospects are going to be impacting this organization for years to come.

 

His failure to execute effectively at the trade deadline, understand the importance of defense, and his inability invest in pitching remains puzzling to say the least.

 

I think we did graduate a bunch of desperate Dave prospects and I think we have a dozen talented youngsters in the pipeline.

 

But the new guy must get two quality starters and a quality left handed reliever or two.

[Tedballgame]

Six 0-2 last two games. Rehire Chaim Bloom!!!!

[vjcsmoke]

The axe swung today. My bet is he is bringing in a Dombrowski type to leverage the farm and get good again

 

It's about damn time Bloom got the BOOT! He just doesn't know how to properly run a Big Market team.

 

He was trying to use Tampa Bay tactics with a big market team and it didn't work AT ALL.

 

We missed out on the playoffs 3 of his 4 years here.

 

You can talk up the farm system all you want what really matters is the performance of the Big League Club.

 

And for those of you LICKING Bloom's boots and defending him all these years! Well guess who was right about wanting him OUT all this time?! Good RIDDANCE!!

 

I'm sure the Red Sox will conduct a thorough GM search in the offseason. I'm not sure who we will get but I'd rather go for someone we haven't used before.

 

This entire organization needs a new approach and a fresh mindset. Hopefully someone who is somewhat proven and knows how to run a big market organization.

[vjcsmoke]

I don't see any Devers, yet, but Bloom has left some with pretty high potential as long as a pretty long list of decent foundational players and role players. Of note, not trading any of DD or Ben's top prospects has helped the core foundation be stronger and younger, buy yes, much is speculative:

 

You can stop kissing Bloom's BUTT now! He's finally out the door!

[vjcsmoke]

1. When you have a future Hall of Famer entering his prime, to not keep him is cheap

2. Bogaerts is a little different and the decision to let him go is less terrible than the plan to replace him.

3. The Red Sox should never be having the 12th highest payroll in the league - not with their revenue, not with what they ask out of their fans $$-wise.

4. The team extended a couple of guys after 2018. Great. What they did not do was push to optimize this core - not the way the Dodgers (another Tampa Bay inspired front office) do.

5. Now, when Bloom took over, the minor league system was not at the position the Dodgers is - where there are constant supplies of Verdugo-level players that have value in trades for premium players so they CAN be in on almost any player they want. But in terms of assets, nothing is stopping the Red Sox from being that sort of behemoth.

6. The Red Sox are one of the big kids on the block - and they need to act like that.

 

Agreed. But especially on point 6. The Red Sox are a big market team and carry one of the highest payrolls in the league but under Bloom they acted like a small market club and so couldn't compete to make the playoffs - missing out 3/4 years he was in charge. Bloom's problem is he never adjusted his mentality to fit the new reality of the Boston Red Sox. We are a BIG CLUB and we need to act like it.

[moonslav59]

You can stop kissing Bloom's BUTT now! He's finally out the door!

 

Bloom kissed the next guy's ass is more like it.

[moonslav59]

For all the promises of finding "gems in the rough," it was a bit of a disappointment to see so many lumps of coal messing up our rough.

 

Arroyo did okay for a while.

Schreiber and Refsnyder have filled some roles, pretty well.

Wong was perceived as a throw in.

Pivetta is no stud, but he was a nice score for two fading RP'ers (Workman & Hembree.)

Winckowski and maybe Gambrell might make the Beni trade look okay, but it's hard to put them in this category, when we gave up Beni to get them.

McGuire for Diekman looks like a steal, but who knows what McGuire might do for us in the next 2 years.

Reyes, Urias and Bernardino, this year.

 

There are some others still kicking around the system:

Abreu (looking great, so far) & EValdez, but can we call these two gems? (They cost us Vaz.)

Rosier and Ferguson for Jay Groome

DHam in the JBJ fiasco

de la Rosa in the Beni return

[moonslav59]

Agreed. But especially on point 6. The Red Sox are a big market team and carry one of the highest payrolls in the league but under Bloom they acted like a small market club and so couldn't compete to make the playoffs - missing out 3/4 years he was in charge. Bloom's problem is he never adjusted his mentality to fit the new reality of the Boston Red Sox. We are a BIG CLUB and we need to act like it.

 

I'm thinking Bloom did not set the budget, so the "acting like a small market team" was likely more on JH than anyone else.

 

Our budget remained high for a few years, but the winter spending was mid market, until last winter.

 

The Sale, Nate and Bogey extensions plus arb raises kept the budgets high without adding much new blood for almost 3 years (4 of you count 2019 under DD.)

[Bellhorn04]

If DD was not allowed to sign Betts, why did he hold on to him up to the final year of Betts’ deal?

 

You yourself have said the decision to trade Betts was made before Bloom and that Bloom was just the hatchet man (your exact woods). I agree, but that also means if they really wanted to get something for a Mookie, the time to move him was clearly the 2019 trading deadline, when they were clearly out of it and DD didn’t exactly try to turn the team around by only trading for Andrew Cashner. That half-ass indecisive trade deadline was completely Bloom-esque…

 

That sounds like a pivot from "DD should have signed him" to "DD should have traded him".

 

It's quite possible that they didn't trade Betts then because they still had some hope of extending him.

 

What we'll never know, apparently, is how much they actually offered Betts or how much they were willing to offer. Betts has now denied he was ever offered $300 million, and there were no counter-denials.

 

We do know that the Sox have made ridiculous lowball offers to Lester and Bogaerts. It's not beyond the realm of imagination that they also tried to lowball Betts. Maybe they were concerned about him holding up over a decade or more.

 

I blame Henry 100%. Not DD and not Bloom.

[Old Red]

That sounds like a pivot from "DD should have signed him" to "DD should have traded him".

 

It's quite possible that they didn't trade Betts then because they still had some hope of extending him.

 

What we'll never know, apparently, is how much they actually offered Betts or how much they were willing to offer. Betts has now denied he was ever offered $300 million, and there were no counter-denials.

 

We do know that the Sox have made ridiculous lowball offers to Lester and Bogaerts. It's not beyond the realm of imagination that they also tried to lowball Betts. Maybe they were concerned about him holding up over a decade or more.

 

I blame Henry 100%. Not DD and not Bloom.

 

There was that report that DD was working on a trade for Betts in the 2019 season, but it didn’t go through, because the Red Sox went on a winning streak, and it got called off.

[Nick]

The mission is clear.

 

Sign 2 quality pitchers better than Bello. What is so hard about that?

 

WE ARE BIG MARKET TEAM. Many posters here I haven't seen in awhile. Maybe we should have reminded John Henry and not blame all on Bloom.

[Bellhorn04]

The mission is clear.

 

Sign 2 quality pitchers better than Bello. What is so hard about that?

 

Aside from the huge expense and huge risk, it's cake.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Aside from the huge expense and huge risk, it's cake.

 

What could go wrong; does anyone really think a Sale situation could repeat itself?

 

I mean, all we have to find are a couple guys like Carlos Rodon -- healthy and dominant the last two years of his 20s entering free agency... or a mid-20s ace like Julio Urias, who led his league in wins, ERA, closed out a World Series, and is yet to enter his prime...

[Tedballgame]

If the story about Bloom not trading Sale in 2022 is true, he should have been fired just for that.

[sk7326]

If the story about Bloom not trading Sale in 2022 is true, he should have been fired just for that.

 

I need to hear more. If he did not want to trade Sale for a sack of potatoes because he thought Sale could be better than that - it makes sense. It's not like they weren't shedding payroll either way.

[Bellhorn04]

If the story about Bloom not trading Sale in 2022 is true, he should have been fired just for that.

 

Yeah, but the front office keeps saying the idea was to compete while rebuilding. Trading Sale in 2022 would have been strictly a payroll-shedding, rebuilding move.

 

Kind of seems like Bloom was screwed whatever he did.

[Nick]

Can you imagine how bad this team would have been without Turner? Nice job by DD signing him.

[Bellhorn04]

Can you imagine how bad this team would have been without Turner? Nice job by DD signing him.

 

DD did sign a Turner.

[Old Red]

Yeah, but the front office keeps saying the idea was to compete while rebuilding. Trading Sale in 2022 would have been strictly a payroll-shedding, rebuilding move.

 

Kind of seems like Bloom was screwed whatever he did.

You’re not competing with Chris Sale on the team though, and really haven’t since some time during the 2018 season. Trading Sale, and his contract would have been a plus all the way around, and maybe using the money saved from his contract to get a more reliable, and better pitcher. It’s not like the Red Sox could use one, or anything.

[Bellhorn04]

You’re not competing with Chris Sale on the team though, and really haven’t since some time during the 2018 season. Trading Sale, and his contract would have been a plus all the way around, and maybe using the money saved from his contract to get a more reliable, and better pitcher. It’s not like the Red Sox could use one, or anything.

 

Yeah, with what we know now, trading Sale would have been the right move. I can see why Bloom would have thought maybe Sale still had something left though.

 

In any case, Bloom's failure to spend on the rotation will always baffle me. Did he not realize his job might depend on it?

[Old Red]

Yeah, with what we know now, trading Sale would have been the right move. I can see why Bloom would have thought maybe Sale still had something left though.

 

In any case, Bloom's failure to spend on the rotation will always baffle me. Did he not realize his job might depend on it?

 

Either way it looks bad for Bloom. If he didn’t know he should have, and if he did know he still didn’t do much of anything about it.

[notin]

The mission is clear.

 

Sign 2 quality pitchers better than Bello. What is so hard about that?

 

WE ARE BIG MARKET TEAM. Many posters here I haven't seen in awhile. Maybe we should have reminded John Henry and not blame all on Bloom.

 

Sure. No problem. That’s always worked out so well in the past.

 

And luckily today the risk is mitigated by having to sign the pitcher for seven or eight years. I mean, with that many years, we’re bound to get one or two good seasons, right?

[notin]

Yeah, with what we know now, trading Sale would have been the right move. I can see why Bloom would have thought maybe Sale still had something left though.

 

In any case, Bloom's failure to spend on the rotation will always baffle me. Did he not realize his job might depend on it?

 

The thing is, he kept managing to stay in the postseason hunt without spending on the rotation. And then when it came time to bring in re-enforcement arms, he just flat out quit…

[Bellhorn04]

The thing is, he kept managing to stay in the postseason hunt without spending on the rotation. And then when it came time to bring in re-enforcement arms, he just flat out quit…

 

It appears Chaim was a ditherer.

[FredLynn]

Yeah, with what we know now, trading Sale would have been the right move. I can see why Bloom would have thought maybe Sale still had something left though.

 

In any case, Bloom's failure to spend on the rotation will always baffle me. Did he not realize his job might depend on it?

 

Bloom could not spend without getting the approval of ownership. And Henry had already issued a directive to reduce payroll. I think we were around 13th in payroll this year, a significant departure from years past when Henry was much more willing to spend. But hey-its his money, his business. We are just poppyseeds in the bakery of life, right?

[Bellhorn04]

There's a theory that all the empty seats for the Yankee series and reports of tickets being re-sold for peanuts was the final straw. That was when Henry realized fans were actually starting to vote with their feet.

[sk7326]

You’re not competing with Chris Sale on the team though, and really haven’t since some time during the 2018 season. Trading Sale, and his contract would have been a plus all the way around, and maybe using the money saved from his contract to get a more reliable, and better pitcher. It’s not like the Red Sox could use one, or anything.

 

When you are the Boston Freakin Red Sox - "adding another pitcher" should be a both/and question