Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[mvp 78]

He threw 100 pitches over 3 days! No wonder they almost lost Game 1 of the World Series 4 days later! He had a 1.875 WHIP in his is blown win (kill the win). Then Tito (petty tyrant, basically Pol Pot) forced him to pitch the next 3 games, 2 of which weren't save situations!!!

[mvp 78]

I’m not disagreeing with that, but:

 

1. Is Foulke reasonable? I can’t speak for him.

 

2. Foulke is much more aware of his off-season training and workout regimen than we are and might even realize he hurt himself elsewhere

 

Off season regiment of driving to and from Burger King.

[Bellhorn04]

He pitched 5 innings in a 3 day stretch! Do you know what that does to the person's molecular structure? It basically turns their shoulder and elbow into a black hole made out of paper maché.

 

100 pitches in 3 days. Pitchers aren't supposed to do that. I challenge everyone to find another example like that.

 

His arm was never the same.

 

Occam's Razor, baby.

[mvp 78]

Excitement is in the air.: The Red Sox equipment truck is being loaded as we speak, and will be heading to Florida later today. I can hardly wait for March 28, and for the season to get started. Things are going to be AWESOME!

 

Make sure to drive around with a plate from the Northeast and ask "where's the good pizza?" The locals will love it.

 

It's rained all winter down here. Don't expect much sun.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

100 pitches in 3 days. Pitchers aren't supposed to do that. I challenge everyone to find another example like that.

 

His arm was never the same.

 

Occam's Razor, baby.

 

There's a legend in the Far East about a warrior once called Dice-K... oops -- smaller ball.

[mvp 78]

100 pitches in 3 days. Pitchers aren't supposed to do that. I challenge everyone to find another example like that.

 

His arm was never the same.

 

Occam's Razor, baby.

 

He was 31. His arm was nearing the expiration date.

 

Derek Lowe threw 117 pitches over 3 days the prior postseason vs OAK.

[Hugh2]

100 pitches in 3 days. Pitchers aren't supposed to do that. I challenge everyone to find another example like that.

 

His arm was never the same.

 

Occam's Razor, baby.

 

Pitchers use to throw 100 pitches or more in a single game. I'd figure 100 over 3 days is overall less wear and tear on the body than 100 in 1.

 

I just don't think any 3 day span is going to injur a guy unless it's an acute injury, with Folke, it seemed to be chronic, which would point to years of overuse and wear and tear. Kind of like my heart attack example, the startling could be the cataclyst but it was the years after years of greasy hamburgers and ho hos that caused it.

[Bellhorn04]

He was 31. His arm was nearing the expiration date.

 

Very unconvincing. Our two best relievers are past 35.

[mvp 78]

Nathan Eovaldi 2018:

HOU Game 3/5 - 111 pitches (3 days)

LAD Games 1/2/3 - 126 pitches (4 days)

 

Eovaldi is not the healthiest pitcher in the world and he was able to do the above in one postseason.

[mvp 78]

Very unconvincing. Our two best relievers are past 35.

 

This year's Sox don't have to worry about putting them in playoff situations, so we're good.

[Bellhorn04]

Pitchers use to throw 100 pitches or more in a single game. I'd figure 100 over 3 days is overall less wear and tear on the body than 100 in 1.

 

Nope, not a chance. Otherwise relievers would be doing this routinely.

[Old Red]

He was 31. His arm was nearing the expiration date.

 

Derek Lowe threw 117 pitches over 3 days the prior postseason vs OAK.

 

I’m sure Dick Radtz beat all of these guys more than once in pitchers thrown in only a two day period, and his effectiveness was short lived as was his career.

[Old Red]

Nope, not a chance. Otherwise relievers would be doing this routinely.

It’s not just how many pitchers get thrown in the actual game. They have to warm up to come into the game, and then between innings. It all adds up, and takes a toll. Didn’t Mike Torres throw 100 warmup pitches in the BP before the game? It’s a wonder he had anything left for the game.

[mvp 78]

I’m sure Dick Radtz beat all of these guys more than once in pitchers thrown in only a two day period, and his effectiveness was short lived as was his career.

 

When men were men right?

[Old Red]

When men were men right?

 

He was the man for 2-3 years on some bad Red Sox teams. Wore himself to a frazzle though in those years, and that was hard to do of a man of that size.

[Dipre]

I’m not arguing against that one bit.

 

I’m saying there’s no 3 day span that can ever ruin a guys career.

 

His arm was either shot from decades of wear and tear, or he never put the same level of effort into his training afterwards to get himself right

 

You sure about that? Because one failed rep (throw) can absolutely wreck a rotator cuff and end a guy's career. Fatigue and constant stress on a joint greatly increases the risk of such an event.

[notin]

Nathan Eovaldi 2018:

HOU Game 3/5 - 111 pitches (3 days)

LAD Games 1/2/3 - 126 pitches (4 days)

 

Eovaldi is not the healthiest pitcher in the world and he was able to do the above in one postseason.

 

His 2019 was pretty short. Of course, given Nate’s history, that could be unrelated…

[Hugh2]

You sure about that? Because one failed rep (throw) can absolutely wreck a rotator cuff and end a guy's career. Fatigue and constant stress on a joint greatly increases the risk of such an event.

 

You're basically saying the same thing, and yes I'm 100% certain.

[mvp 78]

His 2019 was pretty short. Of course, given Nate’s history, that could be unrelated…

 

That's all I'm saying. If 2018 wasn't a career ender for Nasty Nate, I don't buy the 04 killed Foulke issue. I think he was trending that way from overuse for a long time.

[Dipre]

You're basically saying the same thing, and yes I'm 100% certain.

 

The problem is the generalization. I'm not saying the same thing, I'm saying things are not black and white. A guy can get wrecked because of years of overuse, or one bad pitch because he's fatigued. It can also be, as you say, because of a bad offseason routine. These things are not mutually exclusive.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

His 2019 was pretty short. Of course, given Nate’s history, that could be unrelated…

 

Eovaldi, Price, Porcello, and of course Sale -- all had issues in '19.

 

ERod didn't, and he pitched less than the rest in the '18 postseason... (and even recorded less outs than Kelly and Kimbrel).

 

When 80% of the starting rotation of the greatest team in franchise history all hits a wall at the same time, it's probably more than coincidence.

[mvp 78]

He was the man for 2-3 years on some bad Red Sox teams. Wore himself to a frazzle though in those years, and that was hard to do of a man of that size.

 

I think it's safe to pitch those innings on rare occasions like the playoffs, but the Sox were leaning way too heavily on him and killed his career. BRef doesn't have pitch counts from back then, but he was often pitching on 4 straight days, both sides of double headers and really running him ragged all throughout the regular season for some s***** Sox teams.

[notin]

That's all I'm saying. If 2018 wasn't a career ender for Nasty Nate, I don't buy the 04 killed Foulke issue. I think he was trending that way from overuse for a long time.

 

He was. Oakland overused him, too.

 

Foulke threw 52 pitches in game one of the 2003 ALDS against Boston, and followed it up with a 22 pitch effort the following night.

 

The guy routinely topped 80 IP in an era where most closers give you 70 or so.

 

Not to mention, he did follow up that 3 outing/100 pitch stretch with 5 more IP in the World Series…

[mvp 78]

Eovaldi, Price, Porcello, and of course Sale -- all had issues in '19.

 

ERod didn't, and he pitched less than the rest in the '18 postseason... (and even recorded less outs than Kelly and Kimbrel).

 

When 80% of the starting rotation of the greatest team in franchise history all hits a wall at the same time, it's probably more than coincidence.

 

Porcello didn't have the strain that Eovaldi did. ERod had less of a strain than the others simply because of ineffectiveness. Price had a fairly normal starter's workload except for facing 3 batters in Game 3 of the WS. Sale only threw 15 innings the whole postseason.

[mvp 78]

He was. Oakland overused him, too.

 

Foulke threw 52 pitches in game one of the 2003 ALDS against Boston, and followed it up with a 22 pitch effort the following night.

 

The guy routinely topped 80 IP in an era where most closers give you 70 or so.

 

Not to mention, he did follow up that 3 outing/100 pitch stretch with 5 more IP in the World Series…

 

For Foulke, it even goes back to CHW where they had him throw over 100 IP one year all in relief. He was a workhorse out of the pen for a long time. It was just a matter of time. He was good in the World Series. I don't think anyone can point to a dropoff or an injury at the time.

[Hugh2]

The problem is the generalization. I'm not saying the same thing, I'm saying things are not black and white. A guy can get wrecked because of years of overuse, or one bad pitch because he's fatigued. It can also be, as you say, because of a bad offseason routine. These things are not mutually exclusive.

 

The fact that they're not mutually exclusing plays into my point that it's a chronic injury and not acute. It wasn't caused by 3 days of overuse. YOu can't be injured in 3 days from overuse unless you've been overused for a very very long time.

 

Like a runner running a race, you're going to get tired and eventually have to stop if you try to over do it, and it will happen time and time again before you get hurt. But if you have bad form, bad shoes, etc etc etc, eventually one day you will get injured.

 

That's a chronic problem. 3 days didn't ruin his career. But again.....I don't think Faulk will complain.

[notin]

For Foulke, it even goes back to CHW where they had him throw over 100 IP one year all in relief. He was a workhorse out of the pen for a long time. It was just a matter of time. He was good in the World Series. I don't think anyone can point to a dropoff or an injury at the time.

 

They wanted him to be a Bob Stanley

[mvp 78]

They wanted him to be a Bob Stanley

 

9 year old me is crying in my bunkbed again. FU Bob Stanley.

[notin]

9 year old me is crying in my bunkbed again. FU Bob Stanley.

 

I am going to assume this is related to the 1986 World Series and nothing else…

[Bellhorn04]

9 year old me is crying in my bunkbed again. FU Bob Stanley.

 

Consider yourself lucky you were only 1 year old for the 1978 playoff game. Poor old Bob had a hand in that one too.