Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Old Red]

Well, actually it looked like a combination of two things.

 

1. Pedroia did have the 2b job locked up.

2. Bradley was struggling mightily as a hitter.

 

They moved him where they needed help. Pedroia was the primary reason they didn’t need help at 2b…

I’ll repeat that the Red Sox had OF problems at the time, and that was the MAIN reason. Swihart, and Brock Holt being tried out there should have told you that. There just wasn’t a need, but a BIG need.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course. But in the long run the pitcher who gives up one run will be a winner. The pitcher who gives up six runs will not.

 

Wins and losses meant more back when guys were routinely throwing complete games.

 

Now 6 innings is about as much as you can expect.

 

So not only does the starting pitcher need to leave a game with a lead, the bullpen has to retain that lead.

 

There are a ton of examples now of starters whose W-L records don't match their other numbers.

[notin]

Wins and losses meant more back when guys were routinely throwing complete games.

 

Now 6 innings is about as much as you can expect.

 

So not only does the starting pitcher need to leave a game with a lead, the bullpen has to retain that lead.

 

There are a ton of examples now of starters whose W-L records don't match their other numbers.

 

And ERA only came about because wins was not a good way to evaluate relief pitchers…

[notin]

I’ll repeat that the Red Sox had OF problems at the time, and that was the MAIN reason. Swihart, and Brock Holt being tried out there should have told you that. There just wasn’t a need, but a BIG need.

 

 

And there was no need at 2b, which is why Betts was moved. If the Sox didn’t have Pedroia, they very likely never move Betts to the outfield…

[Old Red]

And there was no need at 2b, which is why Betts was moved. If the Sox didn’t have Pedroia, they very likely never move Betts to the outfield…

 

Pedroia at 2B might have helped the decision, but if there wasn’t a big need in the OF at that time the move might not have been made.

[Old Red]

Wins and losses meant more back when guys were routinely throwing complete games.

 

Now 6 innings is about as much as you can expect.

 

So not only does the starting pitcher need to leave a game with a lead, the bullpen has to retain that lead.

 

There are a ton of examples now of starters whose W-L records don't match their other numbers.

 

All kinds of pitching stats can be skewed for a number of reasons. BP, and closers too.

[Old Red]

Wins and losses meant more back when guys were routinely throwing complete games.

 

Now 6 innings is about as much as you can expect.

 

So not only does the starting pitcher need to leave a game with a lead, the bullpen has to retain that lead.

 

There are a ton of examples now of starters whose W-L records don't match their other numbers.

No doubt that starting pitchers meant more back in the day. Starting pitchers used to be as big of a name as the sluggers, and didn’t need nearly as much help as they need today from the BP.

[harmony]

Chris Cotillo of MassLive reports that the Seattle Mariners have claimed righthander Mauricio Llovera from Red Sox:

 

 

After trading Isaiah Campbell to the Red Sox, the Mariners this offseason have signed or acquired a boatload of relievers:

 

Brett de Geus

Jackson Kowar

Cole Phillips

Carlos Vargas

Tyson Miller

Cody Bolton

Cory Abbott

Kirby Snead

Jhonathan Diaz

Mauricio Llovera

 

The cost-conscious Mariners have a history of successfully rescuing relievers from the scrapheap.

[moonslav59]

Here's a good one:

 

harmony never thinks a Sox player is worthy of a trade to his team, yet they just claimed Llovera off waivers.

 

Go figure!

[Hugh2]

Mookie wasn’t moved to the OF, which happed when he was in Portland at the time, because of Pedroia, but because for some reason the Red Sox were having trouble of producing OF at that time. Swihart got tried in the OF, and Brock Holt got put in the OF who hadn’t played there before, so that’s wrong on the Pedroia angle. You are way off base on this one.

 

WHHAAAAAT! HAHAHAHAH

 

Dude, Mookie was 100% moved because of Pedroia. Mookie never played the outfield, and was considered a potential gold glove prospect at 2B coming up.

 

I mean, I've seen a lot of lying and moving of goalposts around here, but this might single handidly be the biggest revisionist history I've ever seen on this board.

 

Mookie Betts was moved off of second base because of Dustin Pedroia.

[Hugh2]

Holy s***, this might be the funniest take ever.

[cp176]

Well, maybe. He's still an unproven quantity at the MLB level. And he was below replacement level last year.

 

Grissom is a young unproven prospect. With the reluctance normally shown by the Red Sox to move anyone who hasn't been in their system for years, who knows whether or not the kid even gets his chance this year. I hope that he works out but it does send a message which seems like it is becoming apparent that winning this year really isn't much of a priority. This has already been mentioned and it does bug me.

Trade has been called a win for both teams. I think that that analysis is about as premature as you can get. If they don't bring in a good arm, this deal sucks for fans who think that we should compete for something each year. We might have a good second baseman going forward, it remains to be seen whether or not he will be able to field the position. His addition doesn't look like it has helped a lousy defensive team at all. I don't care what people think of Sale, but if we don't sign a pitcher to replace what he might give us, I don't see how even with all of the rationalization in the world, this trade will look good for us.

[Hugh2]

Literally anyone can back and look at all the media and interviews back then and see. EVERYONE was saying Mookie was moving to the outfield because he was blocked by Pedroia. Also, teams 100% play players were they play best, the only caveat to that is when a guy is BLOCKED. That's like......something I thought we all knew.

 

And even more ridiculous, is the moment 2B opened back up in September of 2014 they moved Mookie back to second base for a few weeks when Dustin Pedroia broke his hand.

[harmony]

Here's a good one:

 

harmony never thinks a Sox player is worthy of a trade to his team, yet they just claimed Llovera off waivers.

 

Go figure!

This poster holds Nick Pivetta and Luis Urias (and others) in higher regard than many on this forum do.

[mvp 78]

Grissom is a young unproven prospect. With the reluctance normally shown by the Red Sox to move anyone who hasn't been in their system for years, who knows whether or not the kid even gets his chance this year. I hope that he works out but it does send a message which seems like it is becoming apparent that winning this year really isn't much of a priority. This has already been mentioned and it does bug me.

Trade has been called a win for both teams. I think that that analysis is about as premature as you can get. If they don't bring in a good arm, this deal sucks for fans who think that we should compete for something each year. We might have a good second baseman going forward, it remains to be seen whether or not he will be able to field the position. His addition doesn't look like it has helped a lousy defensive team at all. I don't care what people think of Sale, but if we don't sign a pitcher to replace what he might give us, I don't see how even with all of the rationalization in the world, this trade will look good for us.

 

Ownership doesn't care about 2024, year 1 of this deal. Ownership cares about years 2-6 of this deal.

 

We are currently on a very long bridge and I don't know when the exit will be.

[dgalehouse]

Wins and losses meant more back when guys were routinely throwing complete games.

 

Now 6 innings is about as much as you can expect.

 

So not only does the starting pitcher need to leave a game with a lead, the bullpen has to retain that lead.

 

There are a ton of examples now of starters whose W-L records don't match their other numbers.

 

Folks who are deep into analytics say ( somewhat smugly) that a pitcher's won/loss record is meaningless . That is where I have a problem. One could say that if all the various metrics do not translate into wins, then they are meaningless as well. A great coach once said, " Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". (I do think that ERA should be looked at along with the won/loss record when evaluating a pitcher. )

[notin]

Grissom is a young unproven prospect. With the reluctance normally shown by the Red Sox to move anyone who hasn't been in their system for years, who knows whether or not the kid even gets his chance this year. I hope that he works out but it does send a message which seems like it is becoming apparent that winning this year really isn't much of a priority. This has already been mentioned and it does bug me.

Trade has been called a win for both teams. I think that that analysis is about as premature as you can get. If they don't bring in a good arm, this deal sucks for fans who think that we should compete for something each year. We might have a good second baseman going forward, it remains to be seen whether or not he will be able to field the position. His addition doesn't look like it has helped a lousy defensive team at all. I don't care what people think of Sale, but if we don't sign a pitcher to replace what he might give us, I don't see how even with all of the rationalization in the world, this trade will look good for us.

 

I think Grissom gets a chance right away, simply because there is no other appeasing option.

 

I can see it as a win for both teams. A healthy Sale is a massive loss, but we haven’t seen a healthy Sale since 2018. Atlanta had no place to play Grissom, but was willing to gamble on a SP they hope can pitch this year…

[Hugh2]

I’ll repeat that the Red Sox had OF problems at the time, and that was the MAIN reason. Swihart, and Brock Holt being tried out there should have told you that. There just wasn’t a need, but a BIG need.

 

If Dustin Pedroia was not on the team in 2014 he would of come up as a second baseman and they would of have gone out and got an outfielder.

 

You're literally the only person on earth who thinks this.

[Hugh2]

I officially award RED with the most insane comment of the offseason.

[mvp 78]

And you said you were going to be better. Hmph...

[Old Red]

If Dustin Pedroia was not on the team in 2014 he would of come up as a second baseman and they would of have gone out and got an outfielder.

 

You're literally the only person on earth who thinks this.

Why was Swihart, and Brock Holt tried in the OF?

[Hugh2]

DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE COACH ON SEPTEMBER 24th 2014

 

“We moved Mookie to second base when Dustin (Pedroia) went down for the year. We moved Mookie to center field initially because of Dustin’s presence,” Farrell said before Wednesday’s game against the Tampa Bay Rays at Fenway Park

[Old Red]

I officially award RED with the most insane comment of the offseason.

 

Like I said earlier you made more sense when you were in hibernation.

[notin]

Why was Swihart, and Brock Holt tried in the OF?

 

Swihart wasn’t a very good catcher. Turns out, he was a worse OF.

 

Holt never played 70 games in the OF in a season, and he played everywhere for Boston except pitcher and catcher. It’s misleading to say he was converted to outfield…

[Hugh2]

Like I said earlier you made more sense when you were in hibernation.

 

Read my post above einsteen. It was reported by EVERY news outlet, it's how baseball works, and even the freaking team OPENLY SAID he was moved BECAUSE of Dustin Pedroia.

[Old Red]

Read my post above einsteen. It was reported by EVERY news outlet, it's how baseball works, and even the freaking team OPENLY SAID he was moved BECAUSE of Dustin Pedroia.

 

Was you around Portland at the time Mookie got moved to the OF?

[mvp 78]

DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE COACH ON SEPTEMBER 24th 2014

 

“We moved Mookie to second base when Dustin (Pedroia) went down for the year. We moved Mookie to center field initially because of Dustin’s presence,” Farrell said before Wednesday’s game against the Tampa Bay Rays at Fenway Park

 

How can you trust a guy that was going through female sports reporters like tic tacs?

[Old Red]

Swihart wasn’t a very good catcher. Turns out, he was a worse OF.

 

Holt never played 70 games in the OF in a season, and he played everywhere for Boston except pitcher and catcher. It’s misleading to say he was converted to outfield…

 

But at the time Swihart played LF, and Holt was in RF they had run out of options.

[dgalehouse]

I officially award RED with the most insane comment of the offseason.

 

Hugh, With all respect, who the hell are you to be giving out sarcastic awards and insulting other posters ?

[Hitch]

Was you around Portland at the time Mookie got moved to the OF?

 

The both of you need to let it go.

 

You're wrong. Hugh is coming off unhinged.