Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't necessarily trade Yorke to clear space. I'd trade Yorke if you were bringing back pitching. He has a chance to stick as an everyday regular now that his glove is average at 2B.

 

Yes. I'm not just dumping Yorke or trading him fo a player at a position of low need.

[mvp 78]

You are talking me into this.

 

5.8 fWAR 2021-2023, while ranked 20th at 2B, it is a big improvement over what we have had.

.806 OPS (4th best by 2Bmen since '21) and his .493 SLG is second only to Altuve.

His D has mixed metrics:

-2 DRS (28th out of 42 2Bmen with 900+ innings at 2B)

+3.8 UZR/150 (9th out of 42)

+5 OAA (24th out of 111)

 

BTV accepts:

Bleis, Yorke and Wikelman

for

Sandoval (3 yrs) & Dury (1 yr)

 

 

 

Is Sandoval better than Crawford?

 

Just do a cheap trade for Drury.

[notin]

Is Sandoval better than Crawford?

 

Just do a cheap trade for Drury.

 

Yes, Sandoval is better than Crawford.

 

But outside of Detmers and maybe Trout, is there a less available member of the pitching-bereft Angels?

[notin]

Brandon Walter for Drury at half price seems like a BTV-acceptable trade that works for both sides…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You are talking me into this.

 

5.8 fWAR 2021-2023, while ranked 20th at 2B, it is a big improvement over what we have had.

.806 OPS (4th best by 2Bmen since '21) and his .493 SLG is second only to Altuve.

His D has mixed metrics:

-2 DRS (28th out of 42 2Bmen with 900+ innings at 2B)

+3.8 UZR/150 (9th out of 42)

+5 OAA (24th out of 111)

 

BTV accepts:

Bleis, Yorke and Wikelman

for

Sandoval (3 yrs) & Dury (1 yr)

 

 

 

Is Sandoval on the trading block for some reason? Otherwise, I'm not sure why the Angels -- always hurting for pitching, and who just lost their ace -- would want to give up on a 27-year-old starter with four years of control... maybe, if they're in total rebuild and really like the prospects coming back?

 

Is Sandoval and one year of an ok RHH infielder worth dealing a guy projected with five-tool potential (who missed most of last year with injury)?

 

If the Sox aren't going to be a legit contender, why not just keep Bleis and Yorke and let them develop? The latter may be ready for a call-up mid-summer, fill the hole at 2B, and become part of the future core of sustainedglass...

[mvp 78]

Yes, Sandoval is better than Crawford.

 

But outside of Detmers and maybe Trout, is there a less available member of the pitching-bereft Angels?

 

He wasn't in 2023.

[moonslav59]

Is Sandoval on the trading block for some reason? Otherwise, I'm not sure why the Angels -- always hurting for pitching, and who just lost their ace -- would want to give up on a 27-year-old starter with four years of control... maybe, if they're in total rebuild and really like the prospects coming back?

 

Is Sandoval and one year of an ok RHH infielder worth dealing a guy projected with five-tool potential (who missed most of last year with injury)?

 

If the Sox aren't going to be a legit contender, why not just keep Bleis and Yorke and let them develop? The latter may be ready for a call-up mid-summer, fill the hole at 2B, and become part of the future core of sustainedglass...

 

This trade was assuming we do more, like signing Monty and maybe another pitcher and a 1 yr catcher or OF'er.

 

Monty, Sandoval, Stroman, Drury, O'Neill and Garver looks like a pretty serious improvement.

[moonslav59]

Another third tier fall-back SP'er is off the boards.

 

Flaherty to DET for $14M/1.

 

Also, Burnes has stated he'd have to be "blown away" to sign and extension after a trade. (I'd scratch him off my wish list.)

[moonslav59]

Brandon Walter for Drury at half price seems like a BTV-acceptable trade that works for both sides…

 

If they want Mata, giving him would ease the 26 man roster choices for opening day.

 

(Hell, I'd give Mata and Walter for Dury and $2-3M)

[mvp 78]

Another third tier fall-back SP'er is off the boards.

 

Flaherty to DET for $14M/1.

 

Also, Burnes has stated he'd have to be "blown away" to sign and extension after a trade. (I'd scratch him off my wish list.)

 

The Glasnow trade was contingent on an extension. That's probably the only way the Sox do it as well.

[moonslav59]

The Glasnow trade was contingent on an extension. That's probably the only way the Sox do it as well.

 

If Burnes wants to be "blown away" by an extension, we might was well just sign him as a FA after 2024, or we should just "blow away" Yamo with an offer, or outbid everyone for Monty and or Snell. Fall back to getting one of Monty or Snell plus one from Imanaga, Stroman or Giolito and then spend big, again, next winter.

 

It does not make sense to trade something valuable for the right to extend Burnes at today's FA value.

[mvp 78]

If Burnes wants to be "blown away" by an extension, we might was well just sign him as a FA after 2024, or we should just "blow away" Yamo with an offer, or outbid everyone for Monty and or Snell. Fall back to getting one of Monty or Snell plus one from Imanaga, Stroman or Giolito and then spend big, again, next winter.

 

It does not make sense to trade something valuable for the right to extend Burnes at today's FA value.

 

FA $$$ doesn't typically go down year to year. The marketplace has only gone upwards.

[moonslav59]

FA $$$ doesn't typically go down year to year. The marketplace has only gone upwards.

 

True. I remember hating the Kimbrell trade for the same reason, but his "FA market" contract cost looked like a bargain a couple years later.

 

I'm just thinking Burnes is looking at Ohtani's numbers, and will see Yamo's soon, and he may demand the sky to extend.

 

I do like him better than Monty and Snell, but I'm not sure I want to pay him significantly more plus lose a good prospect or two, as well.

[mvp 78]

True. I remember hating the Kimbrell trade for the same reason, but his "FA market" contract cost looked like a bargain a couple years later.

 

I'm just thinking Burnes is looking at Ohtani's numbers, and will see Yamo's soon, and he may demand the sky to extend.

 

I do like him better than Monty and Snell, but I'm not sure I want to pay him significantly more plus lose a good prospect or two, as well.

 

I'd say they should try to work out a trade the seems reasonable, provide your best extension offer (250M+) and back out if Burnes declines.

[Nick]

At this point we need to stretch out Whitlock and Houck.

 

I'll believe it when the contract is signed or a trade is completed.

 

Until then

 

1 Bello

2 Sale

3 Pivetta

4 Kutter

5 Houck

6 Whitlock

 

Wake me up when something happens....

[moonslav59]

I'd say they should try to work out a trade the seems reasonable, provide your best extension offer (250M+) and back out if Burnes declines.

 

I’m fine with trying, but his comments make me think he’ll want more than $250/6.

 

If I’m wrong, might make the trade at $250M/8.

[moonslav59]

At this point we need to stretch out Whitlock and Houck.

 

I'll believe it when the contract is signed or a trade is completed.

 

Until then

 

1 Bello

2 Sale

3 Pivetta

4 Kutter

5 Houck

6 Whitlock

 

Wake me up when something happens....

 

Something will happen. I just hope it's more than Stroman, Imanaga and a 2Bman.

[Bellhorn04]

Something will happen. I just hope it's more than Stroman, Imanaga and a 2Bman.

 

That might be almost pointless - better to punt.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That might be almost pointless - better to punt.

 

Ambivalence here. Starters like Stroman and Imanaga will still improve the rotation (even if it's not a world-beater) and also help the bullpen -- by pushing guys like Whitlock and Houck into more prominent relief roles when Jansen and Martin show more age; which is inevitable, even though fans assume they'll automatically repeat '23 success.

 

Two more viable and dependable starters should also provide more stability for fielders honing their craft, and take some pressure off youngsters trying to establish themselves on O and D.

[notin]

I’m fine with trying, but his comments make me think he’ll want more than $250/6.

 

If I’m wrong, might make the trade at $250M/8.

 

$250mill over 6 won’t be enough?

 

That’s a $41.7 mill AAV!!

[notin]

Ambivalence here. Starters like Stroman and Imanaga will still improve the rotation (even if it's not a world-beater) and also help the bullpen -- by pushing guys like Whitlock and Houck into more prominent relief roles when Jansen and Martin show more age; which is inevitable, even though fans assume they'll automatically repeat '23 success.

 

Two more viable and dependable starters should also provide more stability for fielders honing their craft, and take some pressure off youngsters trying to establish themselves on O and D.

 

 

Those two would be a definite improvement over a staff that saw over a quarter of their games started by Houck, Whitlock, Kluber, and the Openers…

[notin]

At this point we need to stretch out Whitlock and Houck.

 

I'll believe it when the contract is signed or a trade is completed.

 

Until then

 

1 Bello

2 Sale

3 Pivetta

4 Kutter

5 Houck

6 Whitlock

 

Wake me up when something happens....

 

 

Despite all the frustration and inactivity from Boston, it’s probably worth noting it’s not limited to just us.

 

So far, only Nola and Gray from the Big Five have signed anywhere. Even the bulk of the next tier are still available…

[moonslav59]

$250mill over 6 won’t be enough?

 

That’s a $41.7 mill AAV!!

 

I mis-typed.

[moonslav59]

That might be almost pointless - better to punt.

 

Agreed. I'd rather we just sign one guy- Yamo, and then go all in, next winter. That's a better "punt."

[moonslav59]

Ambivalence here. Starters like Stroman and Imanaga will still improve the rotation (even if it's not a world-beater) and also help the bullpen -- by pushing guys like Whitlock and Houck into more prominent relief roles when Jansen and Martin show more age; which is inevitable, even though fans assume they'll automatically repeat '23 success.

 

Two more viable and dependable starters should also provide more stability for fielders honing their craft, and take some pressure off youngsters trying to establish themselves on O and D.

 

It would improve the team, but not really the long term outlook.

 

If we don't do enough to compete in 2024, at least add only guys that will be just as good or better from 2025-2027 or beyond.

 

I'd still be bummed, but at least 2025 would look better.

[Randy Red Sox]

At this point we need to stretch out Whitlock and Houck.

 

I'll believe it when the contract is signed or a trade is completed.

 

Until then

 

1 Bello

2 Sale

3 Pivetta

4 Kutter

5 Houck

6 Whitlock

 

Wake me up when something happens....

 

take your nap till Jan 3 or 4

[Randy Red Sox]

Yes. I'm not just dumping Yorke or trading him fo a player at a position of low need.

 

We CAN'T dump Yorke. Everyone was PRAISING MR Bloom for this great draft pick. Everyone but me. If the guy is MLB calibre why are we looking so hard for a 2B? After being drafted 4 years ago in the FIRST round wouldn't he be close to MLB ready by now?

[moonslav59]

We CAN'T dump Yorke. Everyone was PRAISING MR Bloom for this great draft pick. Everyone but me. If the guy is MLB calibre why are we looking so hard for a 2B? After being drafted 4 years ago in the FIRST round wouldn't he be close to MLB ready by now?

 

Everyone?

 

And no, a 17 year old drafted 17th during a COVID season with nobody playing baseball is not always expected to be ML ready after 3 years of minor league ball.

 

Oh, and by the way, soxprospects.com says he should be ML ready b y late 2024, so that sounds pretty close.

 

I'm not expecting great things from Yorke and never did. However, I have not lost hope he might do well.

 

I'm looking for a 1 season fiz at 2B in hopes that Mayer and or Yorke can be an impact in 2025, as Story has hopefully re-established himself as a plus-plus middle infielder.

 

BTV shows Yorke with some trade value. I'd prefer to trade him than a big 3 one.

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

Despite all the frustration and inactivity from Boston, it’s probably worth noting it’s not limited to just us.

 

So far, only Nola and Gray from the Big Five have signed anywhere. Even the bulk of the next tier are still available…

 

My problems with that:

 

-I think Moto to the Sox is a pipe dream. Hardly anyone thinks the Sox are one of the faves to sign him. You don't think the Sox are signing him.

-The prices on Montgomery and Snell will likely be even higher than originally projected.

-Snell probably isn't a great target anyway because of his durability issues.

 

It's basically down to Montgomery. And I have serious doubts the Sox will pay what it takes to win that bidding war either.

 

The Sox passed on the reasonable deals - Gray, ERod, Wacha.

 

I think there's just something seriously wrong with their thinking. Or it could be that Henry is still putting the budget clamps on too tight.

 

Maybe they will prove me wrong.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

It'll actually be kind of grimly humorous if Moto decides to wait until January 3 and keeps this offseason in glacial mode until then.