Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[mvp 78]

Was this after they knew Sale and ERod would miss the 2020 season?

 

Yes.

[notin]

It may be your opinion, but who’s to say it’s the correct answer?

 

Oh there is a correct answer to the difference.

 

When using the traditional innings-based deployment where this deliver pitches the 7th, another pitched the 8th, closer in the ninth, a manager really has no control over the quality of hitters his best reliever faces. But he does in the first inning - he gets the top of the lineup. Every game. Much better than holding on to your closer for the ninth inning, where 44% of his save opportunities start off by facing one of the 6-7-8-9 hitters, who are always the weakest hitters.

 

Opener strategies create better matchups for the manager. Use a good reliever to face the 1-2-3 and maybe 4, 5 hitters. Then bring in your “starter” to face the middle-to-bottom hitters. Not only more effective use of the bullpen, but also of the starter (or “bulk” reliever) as when he hits the lineup second time through, he’s doing so against the middle/bottom of the lineup.

 

It is a clever strategy when done right. But again, if you’re using Zack Weiss, you’re just not doing it right…

[notin]

Grunge can't be dead. Melvins are still putting out albums.

 

And they put them out at the same rate teams get complete games…

[notin]

It looks like the Rays did that 5 times in 2018 and that was it.

 

Even the Rays switched the opener to some mediocre arms at one point. Ryne Stanek, for example, was a good opener. But they were using Trevor Kelley in the role last year…

[Old Red]

Oh there is a correct answer to the difference.

 

When using the traditional innings-based deployment where this deliver pitches the 7th, another pitched the 8th, closer in the ninth, a manager really has no control over the quality of hitters his best reliever faces. But he does in the first inning - he gets the top of the lineup. Every game. Much better than holding on to your closer for the ninth inning, where 44% of his save opportunities start off by facing one of the 6-7-8-9 hitters, who are always the weakest hitters.

 

Opener strategies create better matchups for the manager. Use a good reliever to face the 1-2-3 and maybe 4, 5 hitters. Then bring in your “starter” to face the middle-to-bottom hitters. Not only more effective use of the bullpen, but also of the starter (or “bulk” reliever) as when he hits the lineup second time through, he’s doing so against the middle/bottom of the lineup.

 

It is a clever strategy when done right. But again, if you’re using Zack Weiss, you’re just not doing it right…

 

I still don’t like, and I don’t think it’s clever. My opinion, and I approve this message.

[notin]

I still don’t like, and I don’t think it’s clever. My opinion, and I approve this message.

 

Fans can be reluctant to embrace new strategies. And some even buy tickets based on starting pitching. It has drawbacks in those regards, but as even you said earlier - relievers are cheaper - and it’s an effective way to maximize the potential of a budgeted pitching staff when it’s done right…

[mvp 78]

Oh there is a correct answer to the difference.

 

When using the traditional innings-based deployment where this deliver pitches the 7th, another pitched the 8th, closer in the ninth, a manager really has no control over the quality of hitters his best reliever faces. But he does in the first inning - he gets the top of the lineup. Every game. Much better than holding on to your closer for the ninth inning, where 44% of his save opportunities start off by facing one of the 6-7-8-9 hitters, who are always the weakest hitters.

 

Opener strategies create better matchups for the manager. Use a good reliever to face the 1-2-3 and maybe 4, 5 hitters. Then bring in your “starter” to face the middle-to-bottom hitters. Not only more effective use of the bullpen, but also of the starter (or “bulk” reliever) as when he hits the lineup second time through, he’s doing so against the middle/bottom of the lineup.

 

It is a clever strategy when done right. But again, if you’re using Zack Weiss, you’re just not doing it right…

 

It works IF you have the right reliever and IF the starter is ok with his routine being changed. Baseball players are creatures of habit. See Brayan Bello pitching well at night, but horribly during the day.

[moonslav59]

Yes.

 

Talk about a sham.

[notin]

It works IF you have the right reliever and IF the starter is ok with his routine being changed. Baseball players are creatures of habit. See Brayan Bello pitching well at night, but horribly during the day.

 

The biggest thing is using the right reliever. If you’re doing it with Bernadino/Jacques/Weiss/Ort/Dermody/Tayler Scott, you’re not. John Schreiber? That could work.

 

Some starting pitchers might be reluctant. Obviously they are not good “bulk” guys. But it might be a better way to handle whatever Filene’s bargain basement arm is still sitting out there on the free agent wire. Eric Lauer once again leaps to mind. Clevinger? Not so much, as he’s actually talented enough to start the traditional way.

 

Also not all baseball players are creatures of habit. Absolutely some are freak slaves to superstition. Wade Boggs, for example. Justin Morneau was one of the worst. But some can just roll. Those broad brushes just don’t apply universally. It’s always case by case…

Edited January 26, 2024 by notin

[Hugh2]

It works IF you have the right reliever and IF the starter is ok with his routine being changed. Baseball players are creatures of habit. See Brayan Bello pitching well at night, but horribly during the day.

 

I think this is actually a much under appreciated way to get wins during the regular season, with the right guys as you say. I wouldn't hate it.....but I still think you need a top of the rotation starter to go deep in October.

[mvp 78]

Talk about a sham.

 

Wooly Bully indeed.

[mvp 78]

I think this is actually a much under appreciated way to get wins during the regular season, with the right guys as you say. I wouldn't hate it.....but I still think you need a top of the rotation starter to go deep in October.

 

Without the guy at the top, what's the point in getting to the playoffs? You're dead meat!

[Old Red]

Without the guy at the top, what's the point in getting to the playoffs? You're dead meat!

 

As I stated before I think most fans would take just getting into the postseason, and take their chances. Your way is why even play the season at all?🙈🤭

[mvp 78]

As I stated before I think most fans would take just getting into the postseason, and take their chances. Your way is why even play the season at all?

 

They can get into the postseason, but they'd have no shot. None. Pitching wins in the postseason. It's a big reason they got their last 4 titles. When they've had lesser rotations, they haven't made a dent in the postseason.

 

The only team to win the World Series in the past 30 years without an ace was the Kansas City Royals in 2015 (3rd ranked pen in '15, 1st ranked defense).

[notin]

Without the guy at the top, what's the point in getting to the playoffs? You're dead meat!

 

"Built for the postseason" = crap. There is no magic formula.

 

And after 2 seasons in the cellar, wouldn't even a 2 game series in October be nice? Even Usain Bolt only took baby steps at one point...

[notin]

They can get into the postseason, but they'd have no shot. None. Pitching wins in the postseason. It's a big reason they got their last 4 titles. When they've had lesser rotations, they haven't made a dent in the postseason.

 

The only team to win the World Series in the past 30 years without an ace was the Kansas City Royals in 2015 (3rd ranked pen in '15, 1st ranked defense).

 

Who was the Rangers ace last year?

[Old Red]

They can get into the postseason, but they'd have no shot. None. Pitching wins in the postseason. It's a big reason they got their last 4 titles. When they've had lesser rotations, they haven't made a dent in the postseason.

 

The only team to win the World Series in the past 30 years without an ace was the Kansas City Royals in 2015 (3rd ranked pen in '15, 1st ranked defense).

 

Good points, but like I’ll repeat again at this point I think most fans will take just getting into the post season.

[Old Red]

"Built for the postseason" = crap. There is no magic formula.

 

And after 2 seasons in the cellar, wouldn't even a 2 game series in October be nice? Even Usain Bolt only took baby steps at one point...

 

Even if it takes baby steps like a winning record, and a postseason appearance is better than the last two years

[jad]

Exactly what baby steps forward have the RS taken in the last two years?

[Old Red]

Exactly what baby steps forward have the RS taken in the last two years?

 

Who was talking about the last two years. I’m talking about 2024 hopefully.

[Old Red]

They can get into the postseason, but they'd have no shot. None. Pitching wins in the postseason. It's a big reason they got their last 4 titles. When they've had lesser rotations, they haven't made a dent in the postseason.

 

The only team to win the World Series in the past 30 years without an ace was the Kansas City Royals in 2015 (3rd ranked pen in '15, 1st ranked defense).

The Red Sox made a pretty good dent in 2021 without an ace.

[moonslav59]

They can get into the postseason, but they'd have no shot. None. Pitching wins in the postseason. It's a big reason they got their last 4 titles. When they've had lesser rotations, they haven't made a dent in the postseason.

 

The only team to win the World Series in the past 30 years without an ace was the Kansas City Royals in 2015 (3rd ranked pen in '15, 1st ranked defense).

 

That Royals team did not even have a solid #2.

 

Some might say Edinson Volques was, that year (33 GS, 3.55 ERA/ 3.82 FIP, but after him...

 

28 GS Y Ventura 4.08/3.57

24 GS J Guthrie 5.95/5.61

24 GS D Duffy 4.08/4.43

18 GS C Young 3.06/4.52

 

They traded for Cueto who started 13 games: 4.76/4.06

[moonslav59]

Exactly what baby steps forward have the RS taken in the last two years?

 

The farm.

[moonslav59]

Sometimes, some pitcher comes out of nowhere and pitches like an ace in the playoffs, but he wasn't one all year.

 

Wacha in '13, until he met the Sox.

Kyle Hendricks '16

Nate in '18

Framber Valdez '22

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox made a pretty good dent in 2021 without an ace.

 

Nate was 4th in CY voting. Led the league in FIP. He was really f***ing good that year.

[moonslav59]

We need a couple giant steps to make the playoffs.

 

Baby steps are for babies.

[Hugh2]

Sometimes, some pitcher comes out of nowhere and pitches like an ace in the playoffs, but he wasn't one all year.

 

Wacha in '13, until he met the Sox.

Kyle Hendricks '16

Nate in '18

Framber Valdez '22

 

Nate was pretty good in 21 as well, he had that one bad apparence out of the pen in game 4 of the ALCS, but besides that he was good.

[mvp 78]

That Royals team did not even have a solid #2.

 

Some might say Edinson Volques was, that year (33 GS, 3.55 ERA/ 3.82 FIP, but after him...

 

28 GS Y Ventura 4.08/3.57

24 GS J Guthrie 5.95/5.61

24 GS D Duffy 4.08/4.43

18 GS C Young 3.06/4.52

 

They traded for Cueto who started 13 games: 4.76/4.06

 

Volques and Ventura both had the same fWAR that year as BOS Wade Miley: 2.7.

 

Young, Duffy, Volques, Guthrie all had shine at one point in their career, but they never were TOTR guys.

[mvp 78]

Even if it takes baby steps like a winning record, and a postseason appearance is better than the last two years

 

They could take baby steps as a team, put a better product on the field and still wind up with a worse record IMO.

[moonslav59]

Nate was pretty good in 21 as well, he had that one bad apparence out of the pen in game 4 of the ALCS, but besides that he was good.

 

I did not list Nate in '21, because by then, I viewed him as a "#1."

 

(My criteria is different from most. To me, a #1 is about a top 30 SP'er.)